The Latest News
Connect with Us

Notable Releases
From the Store
A Song of Ice and Fire Calendar 2011
A Song of Ice and Fire Calendar 2011
Amazon.com
Featured Sites
License Holders

Jump to content


Photo

King Robert Baratheon, an underrated king?


  • Please log in to reply
221 replies to this topic

#1 The Santa of House Claus

The Santa of House Claus

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,077 posts

Posted 28 February 2014 - 01:00 PM

Everyone calls him a terrible king, but let's think about that for a minute. One of his greatest talents was turning enemies to allies, he broke the Greyjoys, then brough them back into the kings piece instead of say... Pulling a Tywin Lannister and raising Pyke to the ground. Now given what happened in the books, you can argue that was a mistake, but you can't judge based on hindsight.

It's pretty common knowledge that he did not like ruling, he liked to fight, drink, and whore, fine, not great qualities in a King, but what did Robert do, he made Lord Arryn, by all accounts a very good person and wise Lord, his Hand. Really the only thing you can say Robert did wrong was to run up the crowns debt, not very smart, but really not a huge deal compared to the bad things his predecessor and heir did. He had a solid Small Council as well, Stannis is a very competent ruler, maybe not a great choice for King, but he is smart and just. Varys is a neccecary evil, and his loyalty is to the realm. Little Finger maybe a terrible person, but he was very good as Master of Coin.

The only war during Robert's rule was the Greyjoy rebellion, for the most part the 7 Kingdoms were at piece during his 15 years on the Throne. The Harvests were bountiful, and all seemed to prosper.

Also just how just was his Rebellion? The catalyst was love, the debate about whether Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna or they ran off together is another topic. But it's painfully obvious that Aerys became a terrible king, he tortured and murdered his high Lords and was appointing worse and worse Hands after Tywin resigned. A lot is said about how great Rhaegar was, but he did nothing to try to reign in his father, and I think you have to take Barristan's and Connington's memories with a grain of salt, people tend to think much more highly of people after they die, forgetting any faults or short comings they may have. Would he have been a good king, probably, but again, that's another topic. But given what Aerys was doing I say that the Rebellion was completely justified because Aerys was horrible and even if Rhaegar and Lyanna ran off together and it wasn't a kidnapping, Lyanna was still betrothed to Robert and Rhaegar was married.

So to some up, I believe Robert was a good King, he was smart enough to appoint a strong hand, and a good Small Council, to compensate for his lack of talent or will to rule, like a smart CEO or company founder/president he appointed good people to take care of business.

#2 Queen Sansa Stark

Queen Sansa Stark

    The Mother Wolf

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,863 posts

Posted 28 February 2014 - 01:06 PM

IMO he was a good leader, but a ruler... not so much. 



#3 MyLittleFinger

MyLittleFinger

    Petyr Poorborn Master of Coin and Chaos

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,542 posts

Posted 28 February 2014 - 01:07 PM

Here, here! And I did my best to keep his exotic tastes satiated. 



#4 SuperTechmarine

SuperTechmarine

    The Bastard Dragon

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,708 posts

Posted 28 February 2014 - 01:08 PM

His very first big mistake was letting Jaime remain in the Kingsguard. His second mistake was even considering sparing Balon Greyjoy. His neck should have bent, under a sword.

His peaceful reign has more to do with Jon Arryn and Stannis Baratheon doing everything up to and including wiping his ass every time he shat.

 

He was a pitiful person. Boo hoo his crush died. GET OVER IT. Because he can't, he turns to whoring and eating when his wife's the hottest woman in the 7k.

 

Aerys wasn't actually that bad. Sure he was mad but the smallfolk enjoyed peace and prosperity up until King-too-fat-for-his-armor destroyed the peace.


Edited by SuperTechmarine, 28 February 2014 - 01:10 PM.


#5 The Santa of House Claus

The Santa of House Claus

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,077 posts

Posted 28 February 2014 - 01:08 PM

I think I may not have been clear enough, I think was a good King, not a good ruler. Because he did not rule, he left that to others because he didn't want to.

#6 Lord Jennings

Lord Jennings

    Squire

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 152 posts

Posted 28 February 2014 - 01:09 PM

Robert Baratheon is my favorite character but he made a pretty shitty king.



#7 Alayne's Shadow.

Alayne's Shadow.

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,470 posts

Posted 28 February 2014 - 01:11 PM

IMO he was a good leader, but a ruler... not so much. 

This. Also, I don't think just because the Kingdoms had fifteen years of peace during his reign, it was necessarily a good reign. IIRC, there were 20 years of peace in Aerys's reign. But Robert's lack of abilities as a ruler allowed for the corruption of King's Landing, a war that has killed more than almost every other war in Westeros and a indebted crown. I wouldn't single him out as a success, not at all.



#8 The Santa of House Claus

The Santa of House Claus

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,077 posts

Posted 28 February 2014 - 01:27 PM

I very much doubt the corruption of Kings Landing started with Robert, just continued. As for the war, that was not his doing. His last act would have been his best, in making Ned the Regent and. Lord Protector. The war happened because Sansa betrayed Ned, Ned did not really act smartly, and because the Cersie is power hungry and bat crap crazy.

#9 Boarsbane

Boarsbane

    Lion of the Rock

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,529 posts

Posted 28 February 2014 - 01:29 PM

Robert was a soldier, it should of been Tywin Lannister or Jon Arryn on the throne.

#10 AintNoStark

AintNoStark

    Sellsword

  • Banned
  • PipPipPip
  • 108 posts

Posted 28 February 2014 - 01:30 PM

He did Westeros a monumental service in the long term; he bashed Rhaegar's chest in and ensured his shitty sense of politics and romanticized view of himself and his overrated family would not plague Westeros in the future.



#11 The Santa of House Claus

The Santa of House Claus

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,077 posts

Posted 28 February 2014 - 01:32 PM

Did Robert abusive his power? No
Did Robert allow more competent and qualified people rule in his name? Yes
Was the realm at peace due to fear or due to smart management? Smart management

Would Robert been good ruling in his own right? Absolutely not, but he didn't, he left it up to his Small Council, a good Small Council. He ran up debt because of list of Tournaments and feasts. As argued in AGoT, tournaments are good for the realm, and debts can be paid off.

Again I am not saying Robert was King Arthur, just underrated.

#12 The Santa of House Claus

The Santa of House Claus

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,077 posts

Posted 28 February 2014 - 01:33 PM

Robert was a soldier, it should of been Tywin Lannister or Jon Arryn on the throne.


For all intensive purposes, Jon Arryn was on the throne.

#13 SuperTechmarine

SuperTechmarine

    The Bastard Dragon

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,708 posts

Posted 28 February 2014 - 01:36 PM

Did Robert abusive his power? No
Agree.
Did Robert allow more competent and qualified people rule in his name? Yes

Agree. Mostly.

Was the realm at peace due to fear or due to smart management? Smart management

Meh.

Would Robert been good ruling in his own right? Absolutely not, but he didn't, he left it up to his Small Council, a good Small Council.

No. Littlefinger, Renly, Pycelle and Varys were very bad for the realm. Littlefinger runs up the debts without ever repaying them, Renly just doesn't do his job at all, Pycelle is so obviously a Lannister stooge it hurts, and Varys is a scheming bastard.

He ran up debt because of list of Tournaments and feasts. As argued in AGoT, tournaments are good for the realm, and debts can be paid off.

He should have toned it down.

Again I am not saying Robert was King Arthur, just underrated.



#14 Boarsbane

Boarsbane

    Lion of the Rock

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,529 posts

Posted 28 February 2014 - 01:42 PM

For all intensive purposes, Jon Arryn was on the throne.


For the most part, but there was still Robert's excess spending that Jon Arryn couldn't stop.

#15 JonCon's Red Beard

JonCon's Red Beard

    The one with the Targaryen Entitlement™

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,408 posts

Posted 28 February 2014 - 02:03 PM

Did Robert abusive his power? No
Did Robert allow more competent and qualified people rule in his name? Yes
Was the realm at peace due to fear or due to smart management? Smart management

It wasn't smart management although the results were the same. A good smart manager could have asked others to do what he couldn't and learn from them and work along with his people. Robert did neither and thinking he did it's overestimate him, he didn't say "I'll call the best people to work with me". He was more like "Can anybody else hold my Kingdom when I'm over there whoring and drinking? Yeah? You? Thanks you lot".

#16 Lee-Sensei

Lee-Sensei

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,072 posts

Posted 28 February 2014 - 02:09 PM

He's better than Aerys, Joffrey and Cersei, but he was still a bad King.



#17 Gneisenau

Gneisenau

    Got lost trying to find Greywater Watch

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,735 posts

Posted 28 February 2014 - 02:14 PM

He's better than Aerys, Joffrey and Cersei, but he was still a bad King.

 

Aerys (or his council) were able to run the Kingdom with 1/10 the money Robert used and they didn't incure debts.



#18 Boarsbane

Boarsbane

    Lion of the Rock

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,529 posts

Posted 28 February 2014 - 02:16 PM

Aerys (or his council) were able to run the Kingdom with 1/10 the money Robert used and they didn't incure debts.


He also burned innocent people alive, but hey he didn't rack up much debt.

#19 Gneisenau

Gneisenau

    Got lost trying to find Greywater Watch

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,735 posts

Posted 28 February 2014 - 02:24 PM

He also burned innocent people alive, but hey he didn't rack up much debt.

 

Not really, since innocent is merely a legal status and with the King being the ruler he could merely declare those whom he burnt to be guilty.



#20 Alayne's Shadow.

Alayne's Shadow.

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,470 posts

Posted 28 February 2014 - 02:24 PM

I very much doubt the corruption of Kings Landing started with Robert, just continued. As for the war, that was not his doing. His last act would have been his best, in making Ned the Regent and. Lord Protector. The war happened because Sansa betrayed Ned, Ned did not really act smartly, and because the Cersie is power hungry and bat crap crazy.

 If you don't recall, Sansa's actions only stopped hers and Arya's departure from King's Landing. I very much doubt she "caused" the war. And Robert's lack of management is exactly what got King's Landing in the situation it was in GOT. Had he been a better King instead of an absent King, the war would have never happened. Yet, that wasn't what happened.