Best handler of their reputation

[AintNoStark]

Basically, which monarch/major lord in your opinion was the most successful at establishing the reputation suitable for their cause for themselves in Westeros? Like Tywin made his vassals fear and obey him, Ned made his vassals fear and respect him, Dany (+ dragons) made her vassals idolize and almost worship her, Robb became somewhat of a heroic figure in his homeland etc.

You have Stannis as well who Tywin recognized as a greater threat than Robb despite Robb having more momentum, men and alliances. So that's a pretty big deal and also the fact Stannis has so far successfully held together a coalition of red god followers and Seven worshippers who despise the red faith; another obstacle he's admirably overcome in securing a loyal following is the fact he took Southern soldiers to the dreaded winter of the North and the Wall and still seems greatly respected by them. Basically, Stannis lets everyone know 'if I had more at my disposal, you'd all be pretty fucked'.

But that's my opinion. I'd like to see those of others. Who was most skillful at establishing a Westeros wide reputation?

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Tywin. Without any doubt and far ahead of anybody else.

About a mile later, Renly.

Admittedly, that's somewhat centering on empty reputation.

[AintNoStark]

Renly doesn't fit here imo. Guy had a reputation as a fancy ass pretty boy which comes from the way he dresses and looks not really something he strived to achieve. Tywin did, for example, prove a smart administrator and ruthless vs disobedience.

[TheCasualObserver]

Tywin. Without any doubt and far ahead of anybody else.

About a mile later, Renly.

Admittedly, that's somewhat centering on empty reputation.

I actually disagree with that. In creating a reputation for utter ruthlessness he was unmatched, but it was a reputation that died with him, so was it all that suitable after all? How many people were actually genuinely upset that he was dead? On the other hand, Ned Stark died in KL, but two years later the North is still rising for him. I believe that his principles, honesty and sense of justice will last far longer than Tywin's ruthless pragmatism. For all Tywin's political capabilities, he was vain and couldn't really imagine the Lannister family existing without him at the helm (which is why all three of his children received such poor education on the subject of ruling) Ned was more humble than that and his values will last far longer.

[AintNoStark]

I actually disagree with that. In creating a reputation for utter ruthlessness he was unmatched, but it was a reputation that died with him, so was it all that suitable after all? How many people were actually genuinely upset that he was dead? On the other hand, Ned Stark died in KL, but two years later the North is still rising for him. I believe that his principles, honesty and sense of justice will last far longer than Tywin's ruthless pragmatism. For all Tywin's political capabilities, he was vain and couldn't really imagine the Lannister family existing without him at the helm (which is why all three of his children received such poor education on the subject of ruling) Ned was more humble than that and his values will last far longer.

Very true, but did Tywin want to have a reputation such that people would want to avenge him?

[Littlefingers In The Air]

Tywin wasn't a long term thinker and that was his downfall. He never thought about how the family would be when he died, or better yet, he didn't make sufficient moves to ensure the Lannister's would remain feared.

To be fair, Ned wasn't a long term guy but he didn't need to be. Look at the loyalty his lordship has produced two years later and you see that kindness and strength wins out over fear and wealth.

[AintNoStark]

Tywin wasn't a long term thinker and that was his downfall. He never thought about how the family would be when he died, or better yet, he didn't make sufficient moves to ensure the Lannister's would remain feared.

To be fair, Ned wasn't a long term guy but he didn't need to be. Look at the loyalty his lordship has produced two years later and you see that kindness and strength wins out over fear and wealth.

Yeah I guess he has failed in this aspect. I mean, he did tell Jaime that when a family dies, its name lives on so we do in fact know he desired a suitable situation after his death, but alienating Tyrion for a stupid reason and other such fuck ups prevented that from being probable.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

I actually disagree with that. In creating a reputation for utter ruthlessness he was unmatched, but it was a reputation that died with him, so was it all that suitable after all? How many people were actually genuinely upset that he was dead? On the other hand, Ned Stark died in KL, but two years later the North is still rising for him. I believe that his principles, honesty and sense of justice will last far longer than Tywin's ruthless pragmatism. For all Tywin's political capabilities, he was vain and couldn't really imagine the Lannister family existing without him at the helm (which is why all three of his children received such poor education on the subject of ruling) Ned was more humble than that and his values will last far longer.

That's not the part I focused on.

Tywin's reputation served him well, while he was alive. Out of all the players in the Wot5K, he had the worst position, and it was basically only his (empty) reputation and a lot of luck that let the Lannisters survive until the circumstances changed.

And Tywin worked and worked and worked for that reputation. 99% of all his decisions were PR-based.

On the other hand, the Neds and Stannisses hardly worked for their reputation alone, it came automatically due to their successes.

[Queen of Whores]

Out of all the players in the Wot5K, he had the worst position

Tywin had the worst position? He had at least twenty thousand men with him personally, and the entire Westerlands flocked to his side. I'd say Stannis had the worst position, with only a couple of thousand men with him, the rest betraying him for Renly.

[AintNoStark]

Tywin had the worst position? He had at least twenty thousand men with him personally, and the entire Westerlands flocked to his side. I'd say Stannis had the worst position, with only a couple of thousand men with him, the rest betraying him for Renly.

He had Stannis to one side as an enemy, Renly down south, Robb in the North and kicking his ass. It was by extreme luck (Balon's stupid decision, Edmure's fuckup which allowed him to ride to save Joffrey from Stannis etc) that he survived.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Tywin had the worst position? He had at least twenty thousand men with him personally, and the entire Westerlands flocked to his side. I'd say Stannis had the worst position, with only a couple of thousand men with him, the rest betraying him for Renly.

He had the Stark/Tully/potential Arryn/potential Greyjoy forces intent on obliterating him, the Baratheon/Tyrell forces intent on the same, the Royal Fleet/mercenary forces dito, and the Martells hating him out of their guts. Straight in the middle. And he had just lost 15,000 men and his son.

[Red Raven]

Littlefinger.

He's done some hideous things and yet he still maintains the persona that he constructed - helpful, genial, and a wiz with finances.

[Steinnis]

Lord Ramsay, such a warm heart and a very hospitable fellow. An upstanding citizen compared to the rest of Westeros.

[The Mountain That Flies]

Littlefinger.

He's done some hideous things and yet he still maintains the persona that he constructed - helpful, genial, and a wiz with finances.

100%. The fact that Jaime Lannister (admittedly not the most astute politician) could be thinking to himself that Baelish would make an excellent Hand well into AFFC goes to show how well most people still think of the slimey bastard. While a notable part of Littlefinger's rise to power was his manipulation of Lysa at some level he had to convince other people, and he seems to do that in spades.

[TheCasualObserver]

Littlefinger.

He's done some hideous things and yet he still maintains the persona that he constructed - helpful, genial, and a wiz with finances.

Oooo, that's a good answer. He's still thought of as being of little consequence despite all the things he's done. But, like Tywin, he's not necessarily got longevity on his side. Someone will take him down and no one will weep then. (Since he's already killed Lysa)