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Suspicions I: The Three Heads


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#1 John Suburbs

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 10:42 AM

I call these suspicions rather than predictions because I've been so completely wrong about practically everything so far that I don't trust myself anymore. But here is my take on the three dragonriders:

First, I think ultimately it will be the dragon that chooses its rider, not the other way around. Victarion may bind V & R for a time to get them under control, but I anticipate Ser Barry and maybe Daario and Grey Worm will probably take him out and secure the horn -- and that's if it even works. Who knows what Euron dredged up. I might be just a ploy to get rid of his brother.

So proceeding on that, we need to take a closer look at the nature of each dragon. And clearly, that nature was determined in a fundamental way by the circumstances of their birth. I've seen other posts on these boards taking about Drogon is the spirit of Khal Drogo -- very large, powerful and willful; Rhaegal is Mirri Maz Duur, which is why she tends to keep to herself and seems mistrustful; Viserion is Rhaego, very clingy and always looking for his mother. That sounds right to me because only death can pay for life and three lives rose out of the pyre, not two, so they must have put his remains in the there somehow.

So if Drogon is the most headstrong, it will take a true champion to ride him -- someone who understands D's passion and drive. And honestly, I just don't see that in anyone yet. John is dutiful and forthright and a good leader, but he is ice, not fire. My most whacked out suspicion for Drogon is that he will be ridden by Bran through Hodor, perhaps wielding BloodRavyn's fabled Valyrian blade Dark Sister. Of course, Bran is ice too, but he's sitting on some very powerful magic, and he has Bloodravyn on his side.

I think Dany herself will ride Viserion, for the sole reason that V will place her safety above all else. When the fighting starts, Drogon will just start slaying while Rhaegel, again, is inscrutable.

As for Rhaegel, that's a tough one. It would have to be someone who's a loner, who's felt like an outsider and insists on doing things their own way. That could be John, although he seems very much a rule follower, a company man. So personality-wise my top candidate is Arya. She can warg so they could form a deep psychic connection, although it would take some unusual plot twists to bring them together. Also, I don't seen Arya as caring much about the world anymore -- she's just bent on revenge, so it would be kind of a waste of a good dragon.

Another problem with all this is that it seems reasonable that only someone with Targ blood can ride a dragon, which would limit the field to Dany, John, Tyrion, fAegon, and maybe even Varys or Mellisandre. And Stannis on his mother's side.

But as Dolorous Edd might say: This is probably wrong. I'm always wrong about everything.

#2 TheCrannogDweller

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 10:49 AM

So if Drogon is the most headstrong, it will take a true champion to ride him -- someone who understands D's passion and drive. And honestly, I just don't see that in anyone yet. John is dutiful and forthright and a good leader, but he is ice, not fire. My most whacked out suspicion for Drogon is that he will be ridden by Bran through Hodor, perhaps wielding BloodRavyn's fabled Valyrian blade Dark Sister. Of course, Bran is ice too, but he's sitting on some very powerful magic, and he has Bloodravyn on his side.

I think Dany herself will ride Viserion, for the sole reason that V will place her safety above all else. When the fighting starts, Drogon will just start slaying while Rhaegel, again, is inscrutable.

 

   I think Dany already bonded with Drogon. At least that's the impression one gets from her final chapter in Dance.

   As far as the personality thing goes, I don't think that the characters of the Dragon and the Rider are supposed to be a match. I base that suspicion mostly on The Princess and the Queen, where

Spoiler



#3 MoIaF

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 11:03 AM

I think Dany already bonded with Drogon. At least that's the impression one gets from her final chapter in Dance.


This. Dany's bond with Drogon has been foreshadowed since Dany's second chapter in AGOT.

#4 Roddy the Ruin

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 11:11 AM

IMO
Dany will Ride Drogon until her death near the end of ADOS, then Drogon will be Jon's mount.

Jon will ride Drogon at the end

Tyrion will ride Viseron

Bran will skin change into Rhaegal

#5 Lord Thornhart

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 11:16 AM

The Three Heads:

 

Jon Snow

 

Jon Stark

 

Jon Targaryen

 

A dragon has three heads, but not three bodies.



#6 King of Winters

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 11:33 AM

IMO the three heads of the dragon and dragonriders are separate things and that Jon is the three headed dragon: http://asoiaf.wester...-and-mythology/.

#7 The Doctor's Consort

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 12:18 PM

IMO the three heads of the dragon and dragonriders are separate things and that Jon is the three headed dragon: http://asoiaf.wester...-and-mythology/.

I came here to say this. Thank you sir!


Edited by Jon's Queen Consort, 01 March 2014 - 12:18 PM.


#8 TheCrannogDweller

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 12:36 PM

The Three Heads:

 

Jon Snow

 

Jon Stark

 

Jon Targaryen

 

A dragon has three heads, but not three bodies.

 

   Why not Aegon?

   Aegon Griff's son

   Aegon Targaryen

   Aegon Martell

 

   Or Arya?

   Arya The Faceless girl

   Arya Stark

   Arya Tully

 

   Or Sansa?

   Sansa Stark

   Sansa Tully

   Alayne Stone

 

   See, the logic with the three names is pretty ridiculous, when you think about it. Jon can never be more than one of those - he is either a bastard (Snow), Eddard's son (Stark) or Rhaegar's son (Targaryen).



#9 The Doctor's Consort

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 12:39 PM

The Three Heads:

 

Jon Snow

 

Jon Stark

 

Jon Targaryen

 

A dragon has three heads, but not three bodies.

I agree. I think that is that simple. 1 dragon 3 hypostases.

 

 

 See, the logic with the three names is pretty ridiculous, when you think about it. Jon can never be more than one of those - he is either a bastard (Snow), Eddard's son (Stark) or Rhaegar's son (Targaryen).

Because it's not about the names. It's about the *aspects* for more http://asoiaf.wester...-and-mythology/


Edited by Jon's Queen Consort, 01 March 2014 - 12:41 PM.


#10 Lord Thornhart

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 03:24 PM

 

Aegon Griff's son

He never believed Jon Connington was his father.

 

 

Aegon Martell

He never believed a Martell was his father.

 

 

Arya Tully

She never believed a Tully was her father.

 

 

Sansa Tully

She never believed a Tully was her father.

 

 

Alayne Stone

She never believed Littlefinger was her father.



#11 Jon of the (Evil) Dead

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 03:27 PM

The 3 heads are/were Rhaegar, Viserys, and Dany, if Dany is AAR, or Rhaenys, Aegon and Jon, if Jon is AAR



#12 Nobleman of Vaes Toloro

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 03:34 PM

I doubt Victarion is going to die. In fact, I suspect that it may be him bonded with Rhaegal. Both are cruel, both overly violent(both upstanding traits in the hell that its nature) both lust after Dany. The color scheme is off, though.

Viserion is definetly Tyrion:his roar is louder than a hundred LIONS. And gold is a Lannister color. Peach is not a Jon color.

 

Also, Jon is the bastard of Ned, it is known.



#13 The Doctor's Consort

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 03:39 PM

Also, Jon is the bastard of Ned, it is known.

You are right.


Edited by Jon's Queen Consort, 01 March 2014 - 03:39 PM.


#14 Wise Fool

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 03:42 PM

The Three Heads:

 

Jon Snow

 

Jon Stark

 

Jon Targaryen

 

A dragon has three heads, but not three bodies.

He never believed he was a real Stark. (Refusal of offer by Stannis.)

He never believed he was a Targaryen. (Jon Snow does not read Westeros forum.)



#15 The Doctor's Consort

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 03:47 PM

He never believed he was a real Stark. (Refusal of offer by Stannis.)

He never believed he was a Targaryen. (Jon Snow does not read Westeros forum.)

I don't think that it's about the names.



#16 TheCrannogDweller

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 03:56 PM

I don't think that it's about the names.

 

   Born a Targaryen.

   Raised a Stark.

   Named Snow.

   That's pretty much the only way I see the 3-Headed Jon argument making any sense.

   I don't buy that theory, btw.

 

   Edit: The way I see it, the "dragon must have three heads" and the Prince that was Promised are two different things. There is a chance that TPTWP is one of the heads though.

   Anyway, I don't think it's a coincidence that Rhaegar speaks of 3 heads, and there just happen to be 3 living descendants of Aerys.


Edited by TheCrannogDweller, 01 March 2014 - 03:58 PM.


#17 Lord Thornhart

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 03:58 PM

 

He never believed he was a real Stark.

Uhh no, everyone thinks he is Ned's son. Turning down Stannis' offer doesn't change anything, especially because he was tempted to accept it.

 

 

He never believed he was a Targaryen.

The difference is he actually is.



#18 The Doctor's Consort

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 04:02 PM

   Born a Targaryen.

   Raised a Stark.

   Named Snow.

   That's pretty much the only way I see the 3-Headed Jon argument making any sense.

   I don't buy that theory, btw.

 

   Edit: The way I see it, the "dragon must have three heads" and the Prince that was Promised are two different things. There is a chance that TPTWP is one of the heads though.

   Anyway, I don't think it's a coincidence that Rhaegar speaks of 3 heads, and there just happen to be 3 living descendants of Aerys.

I see, no point of talking about why it is wrong or not. But who are the 3 descendants?



#19 TheCrannogDweller

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 04:03 PM

I see, no point of talking about why it is wrong or not. But who are the 3 descendants?

 

   Daenerys, Aegon and Jon (assuming RLJ, of course).



#20 The Doctor's Consort

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 04:05 PM

Daenerys, Aegon and Jon (assuming RLJ, of course).

So FAegon is real?