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Suspicions II: The Three Betrayals


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#1 John Suburbs

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 11:07 AM

It seems to me that we've already seen the first betrayal and possibly the second:

Honor was MMD in the death of Rhaego

Ser Jorah, was either love or gold. A lot of people feel Ser Jorah betrayed for love, but he didn't really. He betrayed her for promises of his lands and titles back, which is essentially income, gold. He betrayed the people he was betraying dany to for love, but that would be Varys/Robert's betrayal, not Dany's

So if Jorah was gold, we still have yet to see love, which I suspect will be either Daario or maybe even Ser Barry on this one. It will have to be something against her wishes or even hurts her in some way, but they ultimately feel is in her best interests. Longer term, if could ultimately be John, but c'mon GRRM, you have two books to go and their still half a word apart!

If Ser Jorah is love, however, than the final betrayal is gold.

For this, I have two leading candidates. The first is Tyrion. He is very opportunistic and is focused directly at killing his sister, and probably is brother now, too, and becoming Lord of CR. To do that, ideally he would need a pardon from the ruling monarch for all the kinslaying. Helping install a Targ on the IT (either Dany or fAegon) would fit into those plans.

But by the same token, he would abandon Dany if offered enough gold to accomplish his goals without installing a new king, especially if it was enough to do the slaying away from the public eye and than stage it somehow.


The other candidate is Illyrio. He's already invested a lot of time in fAegon and, frankly, Dany and the dragons are wild cards he didn't count on. He screws her over, or try to at least, in order to get his boy on the throne.

#2 Lady of Dragonstone

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 12:31 PM

IMO, Jorah was the betrayal for gold -- telling Robert and the SC her whereabouts and happenings to earn his pardon. I think you are correct that MMD was the betrayal for blood (not honor as you have it here).

 

The only betrayal, or treason, she has left is "for love."

 

I immediately discount Daario, because I think that's the obvious choice, and we know it's usually not the obvious choice. I believe Daario will actually be killed in TWOW, but that's neither here nor there.  Illyrio is a good thought, but I discount him as well because the actual wording is "treason," and Illyrio is not a servant or subject to Daenerys, he's only a benefactor. He has said no words of allegiance to her. That may be a technicality to some people...but I think it's important all the same.

 

I agree that the betrayal for love may not necessarily be betrayal in the other person's mind, though. I think this betrayal is on the longer term, perhaps midway through TWOW or at the end. Daenerys is not with her subjects at the moment, and all the characters who have arrived in SB while she's been gone have not sworn oaths of fealty to her yet. This treason has to be the hardest to figure out, at any rate.



#3 Steelcan

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 12:34 PM

I much prefer Two Betrayals...

 

 

Any other Halo fans?

 

 

 

*leaves*



#4 Kienn

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 01:37 PM

MMD was blood, Ben Plumm was gold - Jorah
never received squat for all his spying...

The final betrayal is probably linked with the other sets of threes "fire" for love and mount to love... Probably they all refer to Jon or something.

#5 BitsOfBrains

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 01:41 PM

I am holding out on my own little theory here.

 

"Three betrayals you shall know."

 

The way it is worded is pretty ambiguous.

 

I think they speak of three times DANAERYS is going to betray people, not the other way around.

 

Or maybe both. 



#6 Kienn

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 01:56 PM

I am holding out on my own little theory here.
 
"Three betrayals you shall know."
 
The way it is worded is pretty ambiguous.
 
I think they speak of three times DANAERYS is going to betray people, not the other way around.
 
Or maybe both. 


Yup, that is very possible. MMD can still be blood, Astapor could be gold, since Dany had none to buy her army... Then she'll betray Jon at the end or something.

#7 theguyfromtheVale

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 01:57 PM

I'm with BoB here - I think it's about Dany betraying people three times. The treason for blood was her killing Mirri for doing what she had been told to do, resulting in the blood magic on the pyre. The treason for gold was Dany betraying and killing the Astapori slavers, which she did because she didn't have enough gold to buy the Unsullied. The treason for love has not happened yet.

 

ETA: great minds think alike :D


Edited by theguyfromtheVale, 01 March 2014 - 01:57 PM.


#8 Aerys Ahai Reborn

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 01:59 PM

I think they speak of three times DANAERYS is going to betray people, not the other way around.

:agree: 



#9 Minstral

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 03:04 PM

It speaks of three betrayals that she will know, not that she will only be betrayed only three times. It could even be that the undying where really talking on the types of betrayals she will experience, not the amount that she would be betrayed. Alternatively the idea that the three betrayals are her own does sound interesting.



#10 Epyon

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 03:08 PM

My personal crackpot theory for this is that:

 

Daeny/Aegon eventually merge their armies, and put a fairly large beating on southern Westeros, but are summoned to the north, because... well, White Walkers.

 

I don't know if Aegon is going to be a real targ or not, but Dany will believe it, and be smitten by him as her destiny (Targs do love a good incest). By the time they get north, the armies of Jon Snow and Stannis are both fairly decimated. 

 

Stannis will die, and Mel will more or less go nuts, since she thought he was AAR. She will become extremely fanatical, and eventually come to believe Aegon to be AAR. Aegon will believe Mel, and try and forge Lightbringer, via impaling Daenarys in the chest. In essence, betraying her love, for a sword. 

 

I think Jon Snow will intervene, along with perhaps Mormont, and kill Aegon, fulfilling some weird lost prophecy about AAR (Namely that the first Lightbringer was forged from killing true love, the second would be forged from saving it) and forging Jon's sword as Lightbringer (and I don't believe it will be the Mormont blade, Longclaw). Daenarys will look at Jon Snow in a different way (Targs still do love their incest) blah blah battle, blah blah victory, blah blah blah Daenarys and Jon making inbred, banjo playing little babies. The End.



#11 The Doctor's Consort

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 03:13 PM

I am holding out on my own little theory here.

 

"Three betrayals you shall know."

 

The way it is worded is pretty ambiguous.

 

I think they speak of three times DANAERYS is going to betray people, not the other way around.

 

Or maybe both. 

That is very interesting and it does make sence all the threes are things that she will do. Great  :cheers:


Edited by Jon's Queen Consort, 01 March 2014 - 05:23 PM.


#12 Fire Eater

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 05:22 PM

But by the same token, he would abandon Dany if offered enough gold to accomplish his goals without installing a new king, especially if it was enough to do the slaying away from the public eye and than stage it somehow.

I think that is highly unlikely given that Tyrion has all the gold he could possibly get at CR. Someone is eventually going to sit the IT, and he needs that monarch to grant him a pardon and name him Lord of CR.

 

I think he would more likely betray Dany for Jaime. I think when Jaime is captured in battle, and awaiting execution for slaying his king, Tyrion will free him and help him escape like Jaime saved Tyrion in KL from execution for supposedly slaying his king, Joffrey.



#13 Lyse Stark

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 07:38 PM

I think that is highly unlikely given that Tyrion has all the gold he could possibly get at CR. Someone is eventually going to sit the IT, and he needs that monarch to grant him a pardon and name him Lord of CR.
 
I think he would more likely betray Dany for Jaime. I think when Jaime is captured in battle, and awaiting execution for slaying his king, Tyrion will free him and help him escape like Jaime saved Tyrion in KL from execution for supposedly slaying his king, Joffrey.

I think Tyrion will betray Daenerys for all the gold of Casterly Rock, just as Lost Melboniean said. There are many parallels between Ulf the White and Tyrion in my opinion, and I think his betrayal of Rhaenyra foreshadows Tyrion's of Daenerys.

Edited by Lyse Stark, 01 March 2014 - 07:46 PM.