"Dragons from Stone" Explained

[Petyr Patter]

Melisandre in A Storm of Swords asks Stannis to give her Edric Storm. She believes that his "king's blood" when sacrificed by fire to R'hollor would wake the stone dragon statues of Dragonstone. Ultimately, Davos smuggles Edric Storm from Dragonstone and Stannis decides to take the war to the North. It would appear Melisandre's plan is out of reach. She is at the Wall, and there are no dragons, much less stone dragons.

Yet, I am pretty sure "dragons from stone" isn't a missed prophecy. I don't think it is a prophecy at all. Prophecy sees the future, and what Melisandre saw in her flames was the past. Dragon from stone? We've already seen it, when Danaerys walked into Khal Drogo's pyre. When I think about it, it just seems obvious.

The stone eggs were described as petrified, and hard as rock. How different is a khal from a king? While, one is hereditary, and the other results from proving strength. Other than that, Khal Drogo contains the same qualities we see in kings and kings who can't show strength don't stay that way. So, we have all the basic elements Mel thought she needed to "wake dragons from stone." Fire, stone dragon (eggs), and a king (khal).

But wait! Wasn't Khal Drogo already dead when he was offered to the flame? Yeah, but how important is timing? He qualifies as a sacrifice, the intent is there.

I think there are also some literary hints. Stannis expresses doubt about Melisandre's proposal, pointing out how the Targaryens of old tried many different methods to get dormant dragon eggs to hatch. They all failed. Melisandre replies "none were willing to pay the price," with the inference that the price is an innocent boy who happens to be a king's bastard.

However, while Danaerys asks Mirri to save Khal Drogo, she has buyer's regret. She calls out, "the price is too high" along with other laments. After the ritual is conducted and she wakes from her strange dreams, she notes "The horse, my child, Quaro and Qotho, Haggo and Cohollo. The price was paid and paid and paid."

Admittedly, these are descriptions of the ritual to keep Drogo alive, not sacrifice him to "wake stone dragons," but the idea of a great sacrifice and "paying the high price" is consistent both in Melisandre's interpretations and what happened during the dissolution of Khal Drogo's khal.

This also fits Melisandre's pattern of having accurate visions, but misinterpreting them.

Thoughts?

[aryagonnakill#2]

Yes, this is what I have always thought. Some people think it is too obvious, but lets be real if the shoe fits you wear it. Dany killed Drogo herself, and she paid for Drogo with Rhaego her son. Also a khal is exactly a king, it is a literal translation in Dothraki. I have always believed that Drogon is lightbringer, he meets all the descriptions and can obviously lay waste to white walkers.

[Chatty Duelist]

At most, what she would have done was hatch the eggs on Dragonstone.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Didn't Illyrio say that the ages had turned the eggs into stone?

I would definitly consider this to be a good possibility. People think it's too easy. That's what makes people doubt, and try to think of other ways, and so when it turns out that Dany's dragons are the dragons from stone, people will still be surprised.

I would not be surprised at all if this turns out to be the correct interpretation. Melisandre has shown that she doesn't really know what she is looking at at times. Her visions are not literal, but people demand that of her, and so she fills them in on her own, and wrongly, at times. Could be that she did that with this vision.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

Many people say that GRRM often "gives the answer before the question is asked". I think this is one such case.

[Ibbison from Ibben]

Drogo's death was a mercy killing. Dany smothered him because she knew he wouldn't want to live in the state he was in. I don't think that counts as a sacrifice. A sacrifice has to be intentional. I have always believed that MMD was the only sacrifice involved in the hatching.

Mel has an extraordinary talent for screwing up dream/prophecy interpretations. The need for king's blood might be in the sacrificer, not the sacrificee.

The prophecies are all intended to have multiple possible meanings, IMO. They are deliberately ambiguous. Awakening "Dragons from Stone" could refer to minting coins from mined gold, making babies with Mya, reviving a hard frozen Jon Snow, or a host of other possibilities. Or maybe all of them at once.

BTW - Dany's dragon eggs seem to be exactly like the dragon egg Dunk examines in TMK, which is fresh (or at least within its primary shelf life). Illyrio's description of the dragon eggs as petrified is probably a mistake born of ignorance.

[MoIaF]

Well, if indeed it required kings blood to awaken the dragons then technically two kings died in order to wake them.*

Because the Targaryen's kingship goes through the male line, once Viserys died Rhaego passed Dany in the line of succession making him king. And we know that Khals are a sort of king.

As for Dany's dragon eggs, I can't imagine that they were anything but prettified. They were at least 150 years old and they are described as stone not only by Illyrio, but Dany and Jorah as well. GRRM made that quick clear.

So, yes I think the simple answer is the best answer. Dany's petrified dragon eggs were the dragons awken from stone.

* I'm not sure I believe the Queensmen comment about the two kings.. They aren't prophets, so what would they know.

[MoIaF]

ETA:

From Dany's prophetic dream before she wakes up from her miscarriage.

And Daenerys Targaryen flew. wake the dragon The door loomed before her, the red door, so close, so close, the hall was a blur around her, the cold receding behind. And now the stone was gone and she flew across the Dothraki sea, high and higher, the green rippling beneath, and all that lived and breathed fled in terror from the shadow of her wings.

Illyrio was right, when Dany stepped into the pyre she herself awoke as a dragon.

[Kienn]

Well, if indeed it required kings blood to awaken the dragons then technically two kings died in order to wake them.*

Because the Targaryen's kingship goes through the male line, once Viserys died Rhaego passed Dany in the line of succession making him king. And we know that Khals are a sort of king.

As for Dany's dragon eggs, I can't imagine that they were anything but prettified. They were at least 150 years old and they are described as stone not only by Illyrio, but Dany and Jorah as well. GRRM made that quick clear.

So, yes I think the simple answer is the best answer. Dany's petrified dragon eggs were the dragons awken from stone.

* I'm not sure I believe the Queensmen comment about the two kings.. They aren't prophets. What would they know.

A fresh egg feels like this:

It was heavier than he'd expected. You could smash a man's head with this, and never crack the shell.

Sounds like stone to me.

Also, Targ kids would sleep with their eggs, if they were fragile like normal eggs they would be broken after doing that two or 3 times tops.

Finally, petrification takes tens of thousands of years... not a mere 150. At best Illyrio was telling the truth and the eggs were from Asshai and thousands of years old, but more likely the eggs were just normal dragon eggs.

[MoIaF]

A fresh egg feels like this:

Sounds like stone to me.

Also, Targ kids would sleep with their eggs, if they were fragile like normal eggs they would be broken after doing that two or 3 times tops.

Finally, petrification takes tens of thousands of years... not a mere 150. At best Illyrio was telling the truth and the eggs were from Asshai and thousands of years old, but more likely the eggs were just normal dragon eggs.

Actually petrification can happen in months - it doesn't take thousands of years for an egg to petrify. And Egg's egg never hatch which could mean it was probably already petrified as well.

[Mithras]

I think, waking dragons from stone is not part of any prophecy. Mel created it out of thin air. Mel proposed this only after the defeat at Blackwater. Before that, she didnot say a word about dragons. Stannis was nearly annihilated and all the hope for him to gain the IT was lost back then. Mel tried to exploit his desperate situation to use Edric's blood sacrifice to summon a shadow dragon.

And once Stannis regained the hope of securing soldiers to his cause in the North, there is no mention of this subject again. Aemon "reported" a queen's man talking about burning Mance and his son. If you read this topic, I made some posts that Aemon has other motives and used this as an excuse to leave the Wall. Other than Aemon, there is no report of such a plan.

[MoIaF]

I think, waking dragons from stone is not part of any prophecy. Mel created it out of thin air. Mel proposed this only after the defeat at Blackwater. Before that, she didnot say a word about dragons. Stannis was nearly annihilated and all the hope for him to gain the IT was lost back then. Mel tried to exploit his desperate situation to use Edric's blood sacrifice to summon a shadow dragon.

And once Stannis regained the hope of securing soldiers to his cause in the North, there is no mention of this subject again. Aemon "reported" a queen's man talking about burning Mance and his son. If you read this topic, I made some posts that Aemon has other motives and used this as an excuse to leave the Wall. Other than Aemon, there is no report of such a plan.

I don't know about that, but we do know that the return of the dragons was prophesied:

"Someday the dragons will return. My brother Daeron’s dreamed of it, and King Aerys read it in a prophecy."

—Egg, in The Mystery Knight

I know what you believe about Maester Aemon, but I believe this is what he was referencing.

ETA: Maester Aemon also dreamt with dragons:

“I remember, Sam. I still remember.”

He was not making sense. “Remember what?”

“Dragons,” Aemon whispered. “The grief and glory of my House, they were.”

“The last dragon died before you were born,” said Sam. “How could you remember them?”

“I see them in my dreams, Sam. I see a red star bleeding in the sky. I still remember red. I see their shadows on the snow, hear the crack of leathern wings, feel their hot breath. My brothers dreamed of dragons too, and the dreams killed them, every one.”

[jet199]

Dragons in prophesy usually means Targs and before the doom it probably meant other noble Valyrian families and/or dragonriders.

One version of the prophesy says that AAR will be reborn to wake dragons out of stone. This means that there are other people going to be woken as "dragons" not just TPTWP/AAR. It could mean the three heads will be woken by AAR but I wonder if we could have a larger scale magical or political awakening on our hands.

[Brave_Companion]

What if the stone dragon isn't a literal dragon.

What if the stone dragon is a volcano, such as…Dragonstone.

A dragon is fire made flesh.

A stone dragon would be fire made stone or lava.

[MoIaF]

Dragons in prophesy usually means Targs and before the doom it probably meant other noble Valyrian families and/or dragonriders.

One version of the prophesy says that AAR will be reborn to wake dragons out of stone. This means that there are other people going to be woken as "dragons" not just TPTWP/AAR. It could mean the three heads will be woken by AAR but I wonder if we could have a larger scale magical or political awakening on our hands.

I think we need some clarification here: the Targaryens that we know who dreamt of dragons were doing so AFTER the dragons had died. It would make sense that those (figurative dragons) would be the kinds of dragons they would relate to. However, Daeron seemed to have many of these dreams and it seems he was able to make the distinction between figurative and literal dragons.

“I dreamed of you,” said the prince.

“You said that at the inn.”

“Did I? Well, it’s so. My dreams are not like yours, Ser Duncan. Mine are true. They frighten me. You frighten me. I dreamed of you and a dead dragon, you see. A great beast, huge, with wings so large they could cover this meadow. It had fallen on top of you, but you were alive and the dragon was dead.”

“Did I kill it?”

“That I could not say, but you were there, and so was the dragon. We were the masters of dragons once, we Targaryens. Now they are all gone, but we remain. I don’t care to die today. The gods alone know why, but I don’t. So do me a kindness if you would, and make certain it is my brother Aerion you slay.”

“I don’t care to die either,” said Dunk.

“Well, I shan’t kill you, ser. I’ll withdraw my accusation as well, but it won’t serve unless Aerion withdraws his.” He sighed. “It may be that I’ve killed you with my lie. If so, I am sorry. I’m doomed to some hell, I know. Likely one without wine.” He shuddered, and on that they parted, there in the cool soft rain.

Secondly, the prophecy referred to by King Aerys is much older, before the dragons died out. The prophecy itself could have reference the demise and return of the dragons, we don't know.

Thirdly, we actually know of a Targaryen that dreamt of a dragon and real dragons came. BEFORE Dany RECEIVED the dragon eggs from Illyrio she had a dream where she saw a dragon (most likely Drogon). And of course she went on to hatch the dragons.

Finally, I want to remind people that GRRM called the birth of the dragons a miracle - not Dany walking into the pyre - no, he clearly stated "The birth of Dany's dragons was unique, magical, wonderous, a miracle...". Why, because she hatch then from stone.

[jentario]

This is on the spot. It doesn't mean Dany has to be AA, but that part of the prophecy refers to her for sure.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Drogo's death was a mercy killing. Dany smothered him because she knew he wouldn't want to live in the state he was in. I don't think that counts as a sacrifice. A sacrifice has to be intentional. I have always believed that MMD was the only sacrifice involved in the hatching.

Mel has an extraordinary talent for screwing up dream/prophecy interpretations. The need for king's blood might be in the sacrificer, not the sacrificee.

The prophecies are all intended to have multiple possible meanings, IMO. They are deliberately ambiguous. Awakening "Dragons from Stone" could refer to minting coins from mined gold, making babies with Mya, reviving a hard frozen Jon Snow, or a host of other possibilities. Or maybe all of them at once.

BTW - Dany's dragon eggs seem to be exactly like the dragon egg Dunk examines in TMK, which is fresh (or at least within its primary shelf life). Illyrio's description of the dragon eggs as petrified is probably a mistake born of ignorance.

Drogo was indeed part of the sacrifice.

From the pyre-

Now, she thought, now, and for an instant she glimpsed Khal Drogo before her, mounted on his smoky stallion, a flaming lash in his hand. He smiled, and the whip snaked down at the pyre, hissing. She heard a crack, the sound of shattering stone.

The moment Dany says "Now" Khal Drogo's spirit appears and the moment his spirit lashes the pyre, the white egg hatches. Dothraki believe a man must be burnt before his spirit reaches the nightlands, so even though Dany smothered him, by Dothraki beliefs his spirit hasn'y left the earth so he would count as a sacrifice and even Dany sees him as a sacrifice, as she notes in ACOK, I believe as long as the practitioner of the spell sees the person as a sacrifice it counts as a sacrifice also before she burns him this is what she says of Drogo:

He smelled like grass and warm earth, like smoke and semen and horses. He smelled like Drogo. Forgive me, sun of my life, she thought. Forgive me for all I have done and all I must do. I paid the price, my star, but it was too high, too high…

And now the flames reached her Drogo, and now they were all around him. His clothing took fire, and for an instant the khal was clad in wisps of floating orange silk and tendrils of curling smoke, grey and greasy. Dany’s lips parted and she found herself holding her breath. Part of her wanted to go to him as Ser Jorah had feared, to rush into the flames to beg for his forgiveness and take him inside her one last

Before burning him Dany asks Drogo for forgiveness on "all I must do". She also asks for forgiveness the moment his body begins to burn, which means she knows she is using him as a sacrifice, and her version of the price is that he may never reach the night lands and become a star like all other khals since he is being sacrificed.

[ckal]

Agreed, OP.

Also, people are way too obsessed with 'prophecies' on this forum.

[Petyr Patter]

Agreed, OP.

Also, people are way too obsessed with 'prophecies' on this forum.

Well, Martin does seem to pull out his most imaginative prose for prophecies, so speculating on them strikes me as a good way to pass time in between novels.

[Howlin' Howland]

It's possible that the sacrifice with king's blood wasn't Khal Drogo but rather Rickard Stark. I suspect that Aerys was practicing blood magic. We know from Jaime's conversations with Brienne that Aerys only slept with his wife on the nights after he burned someone alive. We also know that the night he burned Rickard he slept with his wife and Jaime heard what sounded like animals from inside the bed chamber and that the next morning Aerys's wife looked like her legs had been clawed by a beast. Jaime also mentions that he thought Aerys believed that if the 600,000 people in King's Landeng were burned he would rise from the ashes as a dragon.

If Dany was conceived the night that Rickard was burned and if Aerys was trying to use blood magic to conceive a dragon, then it's possible that Dany's ability to survive the fire and to wake the dragons from the stone was a product of that sacrifice.