The Latest News
Connect with Us

Notable Releases
From the Store
Game of Thrones Stick Em With the Pointy End Mug
Game of Thrones Stick Em With the Pointy End Mug
HBO US
Featured Sites
License Holders

Jump to content


Photo

Thoughts on Sansa's Future...


  • Please log in to reply
112 replies to this topic

#1 Winnief

Winnief

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,915 posts

Posted 06 March 2014 - 09:44 AM

Now as we know LF has plans for Sansa...he might actually want to marry her to HtH, (at least long enough for her to bear a child ostensibly by Harry before he meets an unfortunate accident and she becomes a widow,) or he might be planning on marrying her himself right off, or there could be some other party altogether, (perhaps fAegon but I consider that highly unlikely) but in any event, Sansa/Alayne's value to him to conditional on her being free to wed again.  

 

He said initially, he was planning on marrying Sansa off when she became a widow...but as LF admitted, things are happening much faster than he predicted and he might have to act soon.  Tyrion isn't dying so easily, (I don't think he'll survive the series, but he'll survive until ADOS, I'm sure,) which would appear to present an insurmountable obstacle....or would it?

 

Tyrion's marriage with Sansa was never consummated-that alone means it can be set aside by either the High Septon or a Council of the Faith.  I could see LF pulling strings and making bribes to the right people to see to it that such a ruling of annulment is made by the Faith quietly but not announced right away to alert the Lannister's, with LF planning to make the documents public only at her wedding to ensure the legality.

 

(It's also possible since LF knew all about Tyrion's first marriage, he might be planning to use that to get the marriage to Sansa declared invalid on the grounds that Tyrion was never free to re-marry-but I think the non-consummation angle is probably simpler.)

 

Alternatively, I sometimes wonder if Varys might have reasons of his own to dissolve the Tyrion/Sansa match if he wanted Sansa free to re-marry-either to fAegon or some other important ally like Willas Tyrell as being the way to finally secure the Tyrell's for fAegon's side or some such deal.  (We know he sent Sir Shadrach after her for some reason.)  

 

Regardless, of who gets the marriage annulled, or how, or why, I think Sansa once realizing she's free of that mockery of a marriage she had with Tyrion, will be less than eager to wed again-and will probably use her newfound freedom to 'fly away' bird style and make way to the North...possibly in the company of the Blackfish, or Brienne, or even Jaime Lannister.

 

If she ends up meeting with Jaime Lannister, then that might mean a meeting with Hoster Blackwood-and it occurs to me that a Sansa/Hoster match might be in the making with them becoming the future Lord and Lady of Riverrun and the Riverlands.  

 

There are several reasons I think GRRM may be setting this up;

 

1.  Sansa is consistently referred to as the "little bird."  She is surrounded by bird imagery.  Hoster is from Raventree Hall.

 

2.  The Blackwoods of Raventree Hall are indeed one of the oldest and most powerful families in the Riverlands-they go back to the first Men, and were rumored to have been Kings of the Riverlands just as the Starks were once Kings in the North.  They're one family, outside of the Lord Paramount Houses, (and let's be honest here-most of those Houses are on the wrong side, or have burned bridges with the Starks,) that can honestly claim to be 'good' enough for a Northern princess.  

 

3.  Hoster's name is freaking...Hoster.  Like that of Hoster Tully the last truly great Paramount Lord of the Riverlands.  He would be acceptable to the Riverlords, as no Frey ever would have been even before the RW.

 

4.  The Blackwoods are one of the few families south of the Neck to still worship the Old Gods-and they have a Weirwood tree.  This makes them a good match for Sansa who keeps the New Gods and Old Gods close to her heart.  It also suggests that culturally, the Blackwoods are a mix of the SOuth and the North...just like Sansa.

 

5. Tytos Blackwood was one of Robb and the Tully's most loyal supporters-even Jaime was impressed by his honorable behavior.  Which means he's the sort of guy, Sansa would like as a father-in-law.  And it would be nice if at the end of this series some people who actually behaved honorably got rewarded for a change.  

 

6. Most importantly, Hoster might be a good match for Sansa.  He's age appropriate, and obviously a very thoughtful, intelligent young man, who seems like a good guy.  He might be gangly, but he's hardly ugly, and she might like him if she got a chance to know him. (It's sort of the beauty with the book worm thing.)  I also enjoyed hearing his speech about the pointlessness of the Bracken/Blackwood feud-it suggests to me that Hoster is the kind of guy who's more interested in re-building and peacekeeping than petty feuds-which will certainly be what we need running estates when all this is over.  Plus since Hoster is a younger son and not the heir, it won't create the awkward situation of inheriting two estates to rule over, and instead Tytos will get the satisfaction of two of his four remaining sons being very nicely settled as lords...and now having the kind of family connections to help all their remaining siblings do quite well too.  



#2 MyLittleFinger

MyLittleFinger

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,296 posts

Posted 06 March 2014 - 09:57 AM

Interessting OP. I still think she will be Lady Arryn personally. I do think that one could manipulate your point of "1.  Sansa is consistently referred to as the "little bird."  She is surrounded by bird imagery" to Arryn as their sigil is a falcon. 

 

Until proven otherwise, Harold Hardyng seems like Sansa bait (at the very least old Sansa bait) and I don't get this backlash against him (not that you are doing so here).

 

No idea what part Hoster would play, though like so many additions in Feast, I think it's minor at best especially considering he isn't even the heir to Raventree Hill. 



#3 Queen Sansa Stark

Queen Sansa Stark

    The Mother Wolf

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,863 posts

Posted 06 March 2014 - 10:01 AM

Hoster/Sansa I could be okay with it and perhaps even ship it if he can make her happy. Though I am also on the board of Harry being an upstanding guy and getting quite along with Sansa. 


Edited by Queen Sansa Stark, 06 March 2014 - 10:02 AM.


#4 Winnief

Winnief

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,915 posts

Posted 06 March 2014 - 10:19 AM

Well I think there are several reasons people aren't shipping Sansa/Harry....

 

1. For Harry Harddyng to become Harry Arryn, SR has to die, and generally we don't like child deaths especially child murders by poisoning which seems to be LF's scheme.  Also a lot of readers feel that the fact that everyone keeps assuming SR will die young is actually proof that he'll defy expectations and live.  Or GRRM could just be messing with us again.

 

2.  Since HtH was proposed by LF, people are automatically suspicious because nobody wants LF's schemes to work...assuming Harry even *is* LF's endgame...

 

3.  The detail that Harry already has two illegitimate children makes people fear that we could be talking Robert 2.0...I'm not saying he *is* but people are afraid that Harry could be something of a playboy and they don't want Sansa stuck with a chronically unfaithful husband.

 

4.  Lastly, and probably most importantly, I think people want Sansa to be the one to choose her husband for a change.



#5 MyLittleFinger

MyLittleFinger

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,296 posts

Posted 06 March 2014 - 10:35 AM

Well I think there are several reasons people aren't shipping Sansa/Harry....

 

1. For Harry Harddyng to become Harry Arryn, SR has to die, and generally we don't like child deaths especially child murders by poisoning which seems to be LF's scheme.  Also a lot of readers feel that the fact that everyone keeps assuming SR will die young is actually proof that he'll defy expectations and live.  Or GRRM could just be messing with us again.

 

2.  Since HtH was proposed by LF, people are automatically suspicious because nobody wants LF's schemes to work...assuming Harry even *is* LF's endgame...

 

3.  The detail that Harry already has two illegitimate children makes people fear that we could be talking Robert 2.0...I'm not saying he *is* but people are afraid that Harry could be something of a playboy and they don't want Sansa stuck with a chronically unfaithful husband.

 

4.  Lastly, and probably most importantly, I think people want Sansa to be the one to choose her husband for a change.

Fair enough.

 

IIRC though Myranda Royce the perceived gossip by Sansa and LF is the only one gossiping about him having an illegitimate kid. Not that it wouldn't surprise me, 80% of the male noble populace is sticking their sword in any sheath that moves and birth control seems fairly controlled for the highborn only.

 

Can't wait for the story in the Vale to unfold. I was sad that it didn't have a factor in Dance.



#6 Dilecta

Dilecta

    Freerider

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 50 posts

Posted 06 March 2014 - 11:15 AM

If you'd asked me just a couple of weeks ago, I would have stated very confidently that Sansa would be my guess (along with Rickon) to be the last two Starks standing at the end of ADOS.   However, something has been nagging at me lately - the fact that Sansa has no direwolf.   One part of me says that because she has no direwolf, she is the only Stark who has no "supernatural" assistance and must play the "game" purely on the human level.  That might not be so bad if magic weren't  becoming a more powerful entity in the series.  Her brains, observations, and intuitions may only be to take her so far.   :frown5:  

 

The lack of magical assistance may signal that Sansa won't have what she needs to survive the series.  I sincerely hope not.  I want her to not only survive but to thrive and kick ass doing it.  But the more I think about it, the more I think Lady's death will take more of a toll than it already has.  I do hope I'm wrong.  But I'm afraid I'm not.    :bawl:



#7 Queen Sansa Stark

Queen Sansa Stark

    The Mother Wolf

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,863 posts

Posted 06 March 2014 - 12:01 PM

If you'd asked me just a couple of weeks ago, I would have stated very confidently that Sansa would be my guess (along with Rickon) to be the last two Starks standing at the end of ADOS.   However, something has been nagging at me lately - the fact that Sansa has no direwolf.   One part of me says that because she has no direwolf, she is the only Stark who has no "supernatural" assistance and must play the "game" purely on the human level.  That might not be so bad if magic weren't  becoming a more powerful entity in the series.  Her brains, observations, and intuitions may only be to take her so far.   :frown5:  

 

The lack of magical assistance may signal that Sansa won't have what she needs to survive the series.  I sincerely hope not.  I want her to not only survive but to thrive and kick ass doing it.  But the more I think about it, the more I think Lady's death will take more of a toll than it already has.  I do hope I'm wrong.  But I'm afraid I'm not.    :bawl:

 

Yes the death of Lady gives Sansa a setback when it comes to warging, but that doesn't mean she won't warg. It should be noted that since the death of Lady Sansa did not have any contact with any animal - that one time hiking with Margaery doesn't count - but when she comes to fingers and meets the blind dog she develops an unusual bond with him very quickly. So the ability is there. Plus there are a lot of bird references and imaginary in her POV chapters. You could say it is similar like how Cats are symbolic to Arya and she warged into a cat. So it is safe to say that Sansa will most likely warg a bird, a falcon to be exact since she is in the Vale where the highest rate of birds are in all of Westeros. My hope is that since she is referred to as Little bird very often Sansa will create her own spy network with little birds. Varys would be extremely jealous. 



#8 The Ned's Little Girl

The Ned's Little Girl

    Landed Knight

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 431 posts

Posted 06 March 2014 - 12:57 PM

If you'd asked me just a couple of weeks ago, I would have stated very confidently that Sansa would be my guess (along with Rickon) to be the last two Starks standing at the end of ADOS.   However, something has been nagging at me lately - the fact that Sansa has no direwolf.   One part of me says that because she has no direwolf, she is the only Stark who has no "supernatural" assistance and must play the "game" purely on the human level.  That might not be so bad if magic weren't  becoming a more powerful entity in the series.  Her brains, observations, and intuitions may only be to take her so far.   :frown5:  

 

The lack of magical assistance may signal that Sansa won't have what she needs to survive the series.  I sincerely hope not.  I want her to not only survive but to thrive and kick ass doing it.  But the more I think about it, the more I think Lady's death will take more of a toll than it already has.  I do hope I'm wrong.  But I'm afraid I'm not.    :bawl:

 

If I understand it rightly (and please correct me if I'm wrong), the ability to warg is the ability to skinchange into a wolf specifically. It's like a higher order of skinchanger (in that you have to have the ability to skinchange in the first place). GRRM has said that all the Stark children are wargs. So Sansa can still skinchange into animals, even though she doesn't know it yet. If that ability can be awakened (hello, Bran!), I'm sure she will use it. She may never be able to warg (in the wolf sense) though, due to not having a wolf. That doesn't mean the ability isn't there.

 

So be reassured!



#9 Grail King

Grail King

    I am Sansa Stark, ...... the blood of Winterfell.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,206 posts

Posted 06 March 2014 - 02:26 PM

Sansa is a warg, but as of right now I think she's more of an empath, I really think she got into Sandor's head and that is why she has the "kiss", I hope she gets into LF head and get his todo list.



#10 Winnief

Winnief

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,915 posts

Posted 06 March 2014 - 02:27 PM

 

 

Yes the death of Lady gives Sansa a setback when it comes to warging, but that doesn't mean she won't warg. It should be noted that since the death of Lady Sansa did not have any contact with any animal - that one time hiking with Margaery doesn't count - but when she comes to fingers and meets the blind dog she develops an unusual bond with him very quickly. So the ability is there. Plus there are a lot of bird references and imaginary in her POV chapters. You could say it is similar like how Cats are symbolic to Arya and she warged into a cat. So it is safe to say that Sansa will most likely warg a bird, a falcon to be exact since she is in the Vale where the highest rate of birds are in all of Westeros. My hope is that since she is referred to as Little bird very often Sansa will create her own spy network with little birds. Varys would be extremely jealous. 

 

That's what I believe will happen too.  Arya, (the fierce sister,) has Nymeria and the army of wolves, but Sansa could use birds as a source of info.  Both have their uses.

 

Of course the bird imagery surrounding Sansa would also apply to her marrying Harry Arryn, I suppose since he would be the new Falcon..



#11 Grail King

Grail King

    I am Sansa Stark, ...... the blood of Winterfell.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,206 posts

Posted 06 March 2014 - 02:38 PM

 

Yes the death of Lady gives Sansa a setback when it comes to warging, but that doesn't mean she won't warg. It should be noted that since the death of Lady Sansa did not have any contact with any animal - that one time hiking with Margaery doesn't count - but when she comes to fingers and meets the blind dog she develops an unusual bond with him very quickly. So the ability is there. Plus there are a lot of bird references and imaginary in her POV chapters. You could say it is similar like how Cats are symbolic to Arya and she warged into a cat. So it is safe to say that Sansa will most likely warg a bird, a falcon to be exact since she is in the Vale where the highest rate of birds are in all of Westeros. My hope is that since she is referred to as Little bird very often Sansa will create her own spy network with little birds. Varys would be extremely jealous. 

Actually that one time with Margery may be a foreshadow, Sansa was hawking with a Peregrine Falcon; English and scientific names of this species mean "wandering falcon".



#12 Queen Alienor

Queen Alienor

    Noble

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 539 posts

Posted 06 March 2014 - 02:40 PM

It would be nice if Sansa got to marry somebody who is actually age apropiate. HtH, fAegon, Hoster Blackwood... as long as they treat her well I would be okay with it :)



#13 Queen Sansa Stark

Queen Sansa Stark

    The Mother Wolf

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,863 posts

Posted 06 March 2014 - 03:19 PM

Actually that one time with Margery may be a foreshadow, Sansa was hawking with a Peregrine Falcon; English and scientific names of this species mean "wandering falcon".

 

You may be on to something. I do truly believe that Sansa will warg a falcon. It would be fitting since Falcons eat mockingbirds if you know what I mean  :smoking:



#14 RoamingRonin

RoamingRonin

    Slayer of Lies

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,828 posts

Posted 06 March 2014 - 03:24 PM

Ultimately, I believe she will unlock her warging abilities, warg a bird and never return to her body.

#15 Anarchosaurus Rex

Anarchosaurus Rex

    Landed Knight

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 407 posts

Posted 06 March 2014 - 03:29 PM

As much as a marriage with the Blackwoods would make sense, that does not necessarily mean that it will happen. There are lots of potential courses of action which make sense.

 

Sansa's not warging into anything. She lost her direwolf, and that killed her connection to the magic. Her whole arc is based on her learning to play the game, not unlocking magic.



#16 Queen Sansa Stark

Queen Sansa Stark

    The Mother Wolf

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,863 posts

Posted 06 March 2014 - 03:36 PM

As much as a marriage with the Blackwoods would make sense, that does not necessarily mean that it will happen. There are lots of potential courses of action which make sense.

 

Sansa's not warging into anything. She lost her direwolf, and that killed her connection to the magic. Her whole arc is based on her learning to play the game, not unlocking magic.

 

Except there is unusual amount of bird imagery in her POV chapters. In fact I would say that Bird references in her chapters is incredibly similar to Cat references in Arya's POV chapters and she warged into a Cat. I think it is safe to say Sansa will most likely warg into a bird, a falcon to be specific. 



#17 Pod The Impaler

Pod The Impaler

    In The Mouth Of Starkness

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,754 posts

Posted 06 March 2014 - 03:38 PM

If the war had never happened, nor her ill-fated betrothal to Joffrey, then Hoster Blackwood would have been an excellent match for Sansa, for the reasons stated.

Not sure if that Sansa would be happy with him, having never gone through the same struggles to challenge her character.

 

Now ? Well, let's just say Sansa's tale seems to pull her in other directions, even if the current Sansa would be more amenable to a nice lad whose family supported the Starks and Tullys when times were toughest.



#18 Zared

Zared

    Squire

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 212 posts

Posted 06 March 2014 - 03:50 PM

I think that Sansa marrying Harry the Heir is a given, unless something ends up happening with the Mad Mouse.

The idea of her warging is interesting but so far she has never shown even the slightest ability to to able of warging.



#19 Grail King

Grail King

    I am Sansa Stark, ...... the blood of Winterfell.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,206 posts

Posted 06 March 2014 - 03:50 PM

As much as a marriage with the Blackwoods would make sense, that does not necessarily mean that it will happen. There are lots of potential courses of action which make sense.

 

Sansa's not warging into anything. She lost her direwolf, and that killed her connection to the magic. Her whole arc is based on her learning to play the game, not unlocking magic.

Actually, no GRRM stated they are all wargs to different degrees, Sansa's is just a tad stunted since her wolf was taken from her; of all the wolves hers was the most domesticated, I think it's because they bonded quickly, just never had that catalyst needed for her to see through lady's eyes.



#20 Dilecta

Dilecta

    Freerider

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 50 posts

Posted 06 March 2014 - 03:51 PM

I sure wish that I could be as positive as you others that Sansa will tap into magic somehow; because I think it would increase her chances of making it to the end.  Sadly, I tend to lean more to the following:

 

<snip>

Sansa's not warging into anything. She lost her direwolf, and that killed her connection to the magic. Her whole arc is based on her learning to play the game, not unlocking magic.

 

I wouldn't state it as categorically as A. Rex, but I agree that's where her arc seems headed - she is going to have to learn to play the game in order to survive/win.  

 

But I honestly hope I'm wrong and she does get some supernatural help!