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[tpatq spoilers] Visery I's Coins: Easter Eggs in ASOIAF and the Novellas


louzeyre

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In The Princess and The Queen we learn:



"Ser Tyland Lannister was named master of coin in place of the late Lord Beesbury, and acted at once to seize the royal treasury. The crown’s gold was divided into four parts. One part was entrusted to the care of the Iron Bank of Braavos for safekeeping, another sent under strong guard to Casterly Rock, a third to Oldtown. The remaining wealth was to be used for bribes and gifts, and to hire sellswords if needed. "



"Ser Tyland Lannister was given to the torturers instead, in hopes of recovering some of the crown’s treasure."



In AFFC during Jaime's search of the secret tunnels under the Red Keep:




"They had found a chamber full of skulls and yellowed bones, and four sacks of tarnished silver coins from the reign of the first King Viserys."




Given the date of the coins, I wondered if the coins that were found might be some of the treasury that was hidden away to be used for bribes etc.



Aside from the irony of the a Lannister finding the coins hidden by a Lannister who was the Master of Coin while searching for another Lannister who was the Master of coin, this made me wonder two things:


1) If this is supposed to indicate that Larys, who knew the secret passages of the Red Keep well, was not as loyal to the greens as he seemed and



2) What other seemingly off hand things mentioned in the novels are small references to the novellas (or vice versa)?



Any thoughts?



edit: Oops, Larys was supposedly loyal to the greens. I really did mean to type that. Really.


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In The Princess and The Queen we learn:

"Ser Tyland Lannister was named master of coin in place of the late Lord Beesbury, and acted at once to seize the royal treasury. The crowns gold was divided into four parts. One part was entrusted to the care of the Iron Bank of Braavos for safekeeping, another sent under strong guard to Casterly Rock, a third to Oldtown. The remaining wealth was to be used for bribes and gifts, and to hire sellswords if needed. "

"Ser Tyland Lannister was given to the torturers instead, in hopes of recovering some of the crowns treasure."

In AFFC during Jaime's search of the secret tunnels under the Red Keep:

"They had found a chamber full of skulls and yellowed bones, and four sacks of tarnished silver coins from the reign of the first King Viserys."

Given the date of the coins, I wondered if the coins that were found might be some of the treasury that was hidden away to be used for bribes etc.

Aside from the irony of the a Lannister finding the coins hidden by a Lannister who was the Master of Coin while searching for another Lannister who was the Master of coin, this made me wonder two things:

1) If this is supposed to indicate that Larys, who knew the secret passages of the Red Keep well, was not as loyal to the blacks as he seemed and

2) What other seemingly off hand things mentioned in the novels are small references to the novellas (or vice versa)?

Any thoughts?

I think the skulls and bone were of Tyland Lannister and his cronies, and it is very possible that they were tortured, then their bodies were stuffed in that passage where they hid the silver coins.
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Nice catch!







1) If this is supposed to indicate that Larys, who knew the secret passages of the Red Keep well, was not as loyal to the blacks as he seemed






Yep, I think he was playing both sides



As a side note, how sweet would it be if Littlefinger suffers Tyland's fate? It would feel like justice


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Larys saved the Greens from total defeat by sneaking out Aegon, Jaehaera and Maelor when the Blacks took KL. That suggests that he had no loyalty to the blacks at all, IMO.

Otherwise nice catch! Very interesting.

But who would have put the bodies of the tortured in the same room where the gold was hidden? IIRC, the Blacks never found the money.

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Larys saved the Greens from total defeat by sneaking out Aegon, Jaehaera and Maelor when the Blacks took KL. That suggests that he had no loyalty to the blacks at all, IMO.

Otherwise nice catch! Very interesting.

But who would have put the bodies of the tortured in the same room where the gold was hidden? IIRC, the Blacks never found the money.

Larys would do that.

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Larys saved the Greens from total defeat by sneaking out Aegon, Jaehaera and Maelor when the Blacks took KL. That suggests that he had no loyalty to the blacks at all, IMO.

Otherwise nice catch! Very interesting.

But who would have put the bodies of the tortured in the same room where the gold was hidden? IIRC, the Blacks never found the money.

Larys saving Aegon and the kids reminded me of Varys helping Jaime save Tyrion. Larys wasn't probably given a choice in the matter, Varys wasn't either, because they were threatened with death to help them. I still think Larys is Daemon's inside man but he was forced to help the Greens in their time of need. Then he couldn't show his face (like Varys couldn't) because it would put him in the firing line.

Maybe they took the gold and left the Judas silver?

This reminded me of when Brienne still paid Dick Crabb his money even though she was burying him with it!

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But if Larys was the Black's friend on the Council, even if coerced into hiding Aegon Maelor and Jaehaera, surely he would have been able to inform the Black's of their whereabouts?

I do think its possible he (Tyland) was left there by either the Greens themselves when they briefly returned to Kings Landing, or potentially even by Perkin and King Trystane, should they take the Red Keep.

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Larys saving Aegon and the kids reminded me of Varys helping Jaime save Tyrion. Larys wasn't probably given a choice in the matter, Varys wasn't either, because they were threatened with death to help them. I still think Larys is Daemon's inside man but he was forced to help the Greens in their time of need. Then he couldn't show his face (like Varys couldn't) because it would put him in the firing line.

Maybe they took the gold and left the Judas silver?

This reminded me of when Brienne still paid Dick Crabb his money even though she was burying him with it!

If Larys was forced to help, he could have informed the Blacks on where to find Aegon afterwards, or Jaehaera, or Maelor, but it seems like he didn't do that.

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Larys saving Aegon and the kids reminded me of Varys helping Jaime save Tyrion. Larys wasn't probably given a choice in the matter, Varys wasn't either, because they were threatened with death to help them. I still think Larys is Daemon's inside man but he was forced to help the Greens in their time of need. Then he couldn't show his face (like Varys couldn't) because it would put him in the firing line.

It seems obvious that Larys was the one who led the escape from KL: the fact that he was left with the king while the two members of the KG departed with the children should be telling enough. Clearly Willis Fell and Rickard Throne trusted him enough to leave a severly wounded king in his hands, without the protection of any kinght of the KG.

I don't think it makes much sense suggesting that Larys played both sides when he never revealed to the blacks that Aegon was hiding in Dragonstone, even when Rhaenyra was going there unprevented. With just one word, at any moment Larys could have condemned Aegon II to death, or saved Rhaenyra from defeat.

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It seems obvious that Larys was the one who led the escape from KL: the fact that he was left with the king while the two members of the KG departed with the children should be telling enough. Clearly Willis Fell and Rickard Throne trusted him enough to leave a severly wounded king in his hands, without the protection of any kinght of the KG.

I don't think it makes much sense suggesting that Larys played both sides when he never revealed to the blacks that Aegon was hiding in Dragonstone, even when Rhaenyra was going there unprevented. With just one word, at any moment Larys could have condemned Aegon II to death, or saved Rhaenyra from defeat.

I agree. Larys was playing for the Greens.

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Larys saved the Greens from total defeat by sneaking out Aegon, Jaehaera and Maelor when the Blacks took KL. That suggests that he had no loyalty to the blacks at all, IMO.

Otherwise nice catch! Very interesting.

But who would have put the bodies of the tortured in the same room where the gold was hidden? IIRC, the Blacks never found the money.

He wanted both sides to fight on and bleed. If Aegon had died, the war would have ended. I also think he was the one who made the two betrayers change sides (how, I don't know - but I think he was involved)

I think he was Daemon's secret friend.

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And what would his motive be?

Yes, this is the big question. I belong to the group that think lord Strong was up to no good and was messing around alot during the entire Dance. The question is of course: why? Could it lead back to the Grand Maester Conspiracy or to something else completely?

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And what would his motive be?

Yes, this is the big question. I belong to the group that think lord Strong was up to no good and was messing around alot during the entire Dance. The question is of course: why? Could it lead back to the Grand Maester Conspiracy or to something else completely?

Yes, I think so. Killing the dragons. I think he manipulated a lot of people, so as many dragons as possible have died (bit of a crackpot - but for example Addam Velaryon or the Shepherd)

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We don't yet know whether the Strongs lost Harrenhal/were extinct at the end of the Dance, but considering Larys' involvement in the war that's very likely.



This fact alone indicates that he was a staunch Green loyalist. If he had close connections to the Blacks as well, he should have been able to save his ass upon the death of Aegon II.



It's also telling that Larys did not accompany Aegon to Dragonstone. He was not there when Rhaenyra met her brother. My guess is that Larys hid in the catacombs of the Red Keep (just as Varys did, when he went underground), and that he may be responsible for at least some of the problems Rhaenyra faced within in KL after she ascended the Iron Throne.



It seems that Rhaenyra let most of the mid-level management of the government in office. All had swear oaths to her, and that was it. If Larys had leverage on/close connections to some of these people, he could have been very successful in causing problems for Rhaenyra.



For instance, we still don't know who sent that letter demanding Netty's death to Maidenpool. I'm pretty sure Rhaenyra wanted her arrested and questioned, but demanding her death seems to be a little extreme for her. Gyldayn does not confirm that the letter was written in Rhaenyra's own hand.



As to the silver coins, there may be a connection to the Dance, but I very much doubt that Tyland hid a bunch of silver coins in the Tower of the Hand of all places. If there is a connection I'd expect that Blood and Cheese lost part of their reward in the secret passageways, or even met a violent end down there...


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Yes, it does seem that all the evidence points to Larys as a staunch supporter of the Greens. I see no reason that we should consider him in anyway loyal to the Blacks. Remember that Daemon actually held the family of Larys hostage. Him smuggling out Aegon put them at a huge risk.

(Did I read somewhere that Rhaenyra was once in love with a Strong, or was that something that GRRM changed his mind on ir did I imagine it?)

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Yes, it does seem that all the evidence points to Larys as a staunch supporter of the Greens. I see no reason that we should consider him in anyway loyal to the Blacks. Remember that Daemon actually held the family of Larys hostage. Him smuggling out Aegon put them at a huge risk.

(Did I read somewhere that Rhaenyra was once in love with a Strong, or was that something that GRRM changed his mind on ir did I imagine it?)

Ser Harwin Strong was rumoured to be the father of Jacaerys, Lucerys and Joffrey Velaryons.

I think a Strong was first listed as a husband to Rhaenyra, but then GRRM changed his mind

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