Is Sweetrobin based off of Robert Dudley?

[Queen Sansa Stark]

I like him too but I also like the House and their story.

I also like the Arryns a lot. They are my favourite House :D

[Devaki Khanna]

So, a lot of people tend to draw parallels between Sansa and Queen Elizabeth Tudor, mostly their backgrounds, but some of their personality could parallel one another as well if one squinted enough.

I drew the connections between Sansa and Elizabeth fairly early on, and with those around her as well. For instance, her situation with Littlefinger is similar to Elizabeth's with Seymour. Not only that, but Cersei could be construed as the Mary to Sansa's Elizabeth.

And then there's Robin.

This one I didn't really notice until recently when I was curiously looking into Queen Elizabeth's life and history. I had heard about Robert Dudley once or twice before, but it wasn't until I stated poking around Old Bess' history that I learned he was her favorite. Not only that, but she called him Sweetrobin, as well as her Eyes. He was near and dear to her heart.

Asoiaf's Sweetrobin is sometimes speculated to become the reason Sansa finally starts fighting back against LF, as well as someone important to her.

I was wondering if this is supposed to mean something. Is it just a mere coincidence that character close to a character partially based off Queen Elizabeth is named Sweetrobin, or is it some form of foreshadowing? And if the latter, what does this mean for Sansa and Robert's future relationship?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Dudley,_1st_Earl_of_Leicester

Robert Dudley, 1st Earl of Leicester, KG (24 June 1532 or 1533^{[note 1]} – 4 September 1588) was an English nobleman and the favourite and close friend of Elizabeth I from her first year on the throne until his death. The Queen giving him reason to hope, he was a suitor for her hand for many years.

Dudley's youth was overshadowed by the downfall of his family in 1553 after his father, the Duke of Northumberland, had unsuccessfully tried to establish Lady Jane Grey on the English throne. Robert Dudley was condemned to death but was released in 1554 and took part in the Battle of St. Quentin (1557) underPhilip II of Spain, which led to his full rehabilitation. On Elizabeth I's accession in November 1558, Dudley was appointed Master of the Horse. In October 1562 he became a privy councillor and in 1587 was appointed Lord Steward of the Royal Household. In 1564 Dudley became Earl of Leicester and from 1563 one of the greatest landowners in North Wales and the English West Midlands by royal grants.

Robert Dudley, Earl of Leicester, was one of Elizabeth's leading statesmen, involved in domestic as well as foreign politics alongside William Cecil and Francis Walsingham. Although he refused to be married toMary, Queen of Scots, Dudley was for a long time relatively sympathetic to her until from the mid-1580s he strongly advocated her execution. As patron of the Puritan movement he supported non-conformingpreachers, but tried to mediate between them and the bishops within the Church of England. A champion also of the international Protestant cause, he led the English campaign in support of the Dutch Revolt from 1585–1587. His acceptance of the post of Governor-General of the United Provinces infuriated Queen Elizabeth. The expedition was a military and political failure and ruined the Earl financially. Leicester was engaged in many large-scale business ventures and a main backer of Francis Drake and other explorersand privateers. During the Spanish Armada the Earl was in overall command of the English land forces. In this function he invited Queen Elizabeth to visit her troops at Tilbury. This was the last of many events he organised over the years, the most spectacular being the festival at his seat Kenilworth Castle in 1575 on occasion of a three-week visit by the Queen. Dudley was a principal patron of the arts, literature, and theElizabethan theatre.^[1]

Robert Dudley's private life interfered with his court career and vice versa. When his first wife, Amy Robsart, fell down a flight of stairs and died in 1560, he was free to marry the Queen. However, the resulting scandal very much reduced his chances in this respect. Popular rumours that he had arranged for his wife's death continued throughout his life, despite the coroner's jury's verdict of accident. For 18 years he did not remarry for Queen Elizabeth's sake and when he finally did, his new wife, Lettice Knollys, was permanently banished from court. This and the death of his only legitimate son and heir were heavy blows.^[2] Shortly after the child's death in 1584, a virulent libel known as Leicester's Commonwealth was circulating in England. It laid the foundation of a literary and historiographical tradition that often depicted the Earl as the Machiavellian"master courtier"^[3] and as a deplorable figure around Elizabeth I. More recent research has led to a reassessment of his place in Elizabethan government and society.

[Queen Sansa Stark]

Just because Sweetrobin is based on Robert Dudley it doesn't mean he will do everything Dudley did. So I do doubt that there will be romance between them. We should also keep in mind that Sansa didn't like the idea of marrying him so it will probably not happen.

[Lord Brianus Stark]

Everyone seems to be speaking in fact that Elizabeth and Robert Dudley were a couple. I know there is a lot of speculation from Historians, and they certainly emphasized it in the film Elizabeth that starred Cate Blanchett, but if you watch the two part movie of Elizabeth that starred Helen Mirren, I feel that is more fitting.

#justsaying :dunno: :drool:

[Lady Howell]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Dudley,_1st_Earl_of_Leicester

Robert Dudley, 1st Earl of Leicester, KG (24 June 1532 or 1533^{[note 1]} – 4 September 1588) was an English nobleman and the favourite and close friend of Elizabeth I from her first year on the throne until his death. The Queen giving him reason to hope, he was a suitor for her hand for many years.

Dudley's youth was overshadowed by the downfall of his family in 1553 after his father, the Duke of Northumberland, had unsuccessfully tried to establish Lady Jane Grey on the English throne. Robert Dudley was condemned to death but was released in 1554 and took part in the Battle of St. Quentin (1557) underPhilip II of Spain, which led to his full rehabilitation. On Elizabeth I's accession in November 1558, Dudley was appointed Master of the Horse. In October 1562 he became a privy councillor and in 1587 was appointed Lord Steward of the Royal Household. In 1564 Dudley became Earl of Leicester and from 1563 one of the greatest landowners in North Wales and the English West Midlands by royal grants.

Robert Dudley, Earl of Leicester, was one of Elizabeth's leading statesmen, involved in domestic as well as foreign politics alongside William Cecil and Francis Walsingham. Although he refused to be married toMary, Queen of Scots, Dudley was for a long time relatively sympathetic to her until from the mid-1580s he strongly advocated her execution. As patron of the Puritan movement he supported non-conformingpreachers, but tried to mediate between them and the bishops within the Church of England. A champion also of the international Protestant cause, he led the English campaign in support of the Dutch Revolt from 1585–1587. His acceptance of the post of Governor-General of the United Provinces infuriated Queen Elizabeth. The expedition was a military and political failure and ruined the Earl financially. Leicester was engaged in many large-scale business ventures and a main backer of Francis Drake and other explorersand privateers. During the Spanish Armada the Earl was in overall command of the English land forces. In this function he invited Queen Elizabeth to visit her troops at Tilbury. This was the last of many events he organised over the years, the most spectacular being the festival at his seat Kenilworth Castle in 1575 on occasion of a three-week visit by the Queen. Dudley was a principal patron of the arts, literature, and theElizabethan theatre.^[1]

Robert Dudley's private life interfered with his court career and vice versa. When his first wife, Amy Robsart, fell down a flight of stairs and died in 1560, he was free to marry the Queen. However, the resulting scandal very much reduced his chances in this respect. Popular rumours that he had arranged for his wife's death continued throughout his life, despite the coroner's jury's verdict of accident. For 18 years he did not remarry for Queen Elizabeth's sake and when he finally did, his new wife, Lettice Knollys, was permanently banished from court. This and the death of his only legitimate son and heir were heavy blows.^[2] Shortly after the child's death in 1584, a virulent libel known as Leicester's Commonwealth was circulating in England. It laid the foundation of a literary and historiographical tradition that often depicted the Earl as the Machiavellian"master courtier"^[3] and as a deplorable figure around Elizabeth I. More recent research has led to a reassessment of his place in Elizabethan government and society.

What is the purpose of posting a part of a wikipedia page?

"Based" doesn't mean that Robin is going to mirror Dudley perfectly. Nor does that apply to Sansa on the Queen Elizabeth front, or any character based on a historical figure.

You really didn't voice an opinion or answer any of my questions.

[Ser Creighton]

He isn't based on Robert Dudley, his nickname may be but the character is nothing like Dudley. Take a better look at him the the Machiavellian master courtier. That's Littlefinger, Cat's history with him and Sansa's current history with him read more like Elizabeth I. Martin does not draw direct parallels like that, he uses aspects of historical figures and mixes and matches. Sweetrobin is as much a Machiavellian as the Mountain is a fairy princess. Your not going to see Robin grow up, the series is not going to cover the next 20-30 years. A guy pulling the strings behind Elizabeth, promoting himself with hopes of getting married to her. A political manipulator. It's Littlefinger, not the exact same, but this is Westeros.

[barmyscouser]

He isn't based on Robert Dudley, his nickname may be but the character is nothing like Dudley. Take a better look at him the the Machiavellian master courtier. That's Littlefinger, Cat's history with him and Sansa's current history with him read more like Elizabeth I. Martin does not draw direct parallels like that, he uses aspects of historical figures and mixes and matches. Sweetrobin is as much a Machiavellian as the Mountain is a fairy princess. Your not going to see Robin grow up, the series is not going to cover the next 20-30 years. A guy pulling the strings behind Elizabeth, promoting himself with hopes of getting married to her. A political manipulator. It's Littlefinger, not the exact same, but this is Westeros.

As a boy, LF was sentimental enough to fight a duel he couldn't win. But life cures us of sentimentality. SR may not grow to full manhood in the next 2 books, but for as far as he gets I'm sure he'll be a chip off the old block. And I don't mean Jon Arryn.

[Lady Howell]

He isn't based on Robert Dudley, his nickname may be but the character is nothing like Dudley. Take a better look at him the the Machiavellian master courtier. That's Littlefinger, Cat's history with him and Sansa's current history with him read more like Elizabeth I. Martin does not draw direct parallels like that, he uses aspects of historical figures and mixes and matches. Sweetrobin is as much a Machiavellian as the Mountain is a fairy princess. Your not going to see Robin grow up, the series is not going to cover the next 20-30 years. A guy pulling the strings behind Elizabeth, promoting himself with hopes of getting married to her. A political manipulator. It's Littlefinger, not the exact same, but this is Westeros.

Littlefinger could be based off a number of schemers throughout history. Every time period and place in the world had their own Littlefinger at some point in time. Plus, can you really see LF surviving long enough or even becoming nearly as close and dear to Sansa to be the Robert Dudley to her Queen Elizabeth?

He's pegged to die by most of the fandom before the end of the series, most likely via a certain Stark no less.

Also, it's not like we're expecting to watch SR grow up. But the series will probably end with some indication of what happened to him, if not outright telling us. Either he'll die, or in one of the last chapters of the book someone will mention Lord Robert Arryn doing something or other, perhaps him being directly linked to Sansa, maybe even growing up to be her court Favorite. Perhaps he'll grow up to be as politically saavy as the best of Players, and that's where his parallels with Robert Dudley will emerge.

I doubt Littlefinger's supposed to be Robert Dudley. He's more like Thomas Seymour.

[The Old Tongue]

Agreed I dont wanna see House Arryn extinct :frown5:

Isn't there a possibility that the Arryn line died with Jon anyways? It's possible that Robin could be LF's little squirt. In any case, the unexpected death of Robin could be a major hitch in LF's plans. GRRM mentioned a controversial Sansa chapter for TWoW, I can't help but wonder (after all the speculation of a rape scene was hushed) that maybe Sansa, learning from LF's own tactics, does something to "remove" Sweet Robyn from the Vale, effectively nullifying LF's tenure as well as the uneasy agreement he has with the Vale lords.

[Luddagain]

While I have no doubt GRRM adopted the NAME for Robin from the story of Robert Dudley, his personality is nothing like Robert Dudley. LF is closer.

There is a moderately solid basis for believing Dudley and Elizabeth had a child or children together, and one such claimant turned up in a Spanish gaol. Elizabeth was clearly deeply in love with Dudley and he could not marry.

Note: Dudle's final wif's name Lettice Knollys (very like Lollys)

[Queen Sansa Stark]

Isn't there a possibility that the Arryn line died with Jon anyways? It's possible that Robin could be LF's little squirt. In any case, the unexpected death of Robin could be a major hitch in LF's plans. GRRM mentioned a controversial Sansa chapter for TWoW, I can't help but wonder (after all the speculation of a rape scene was hushed) that maybe Sansa, learning from LF's own tactics, does something to "remove" Sweet Robyn from the Vale, effectively nullifying LF's tenure as well as the uneasy agreement he has with the Vale lords.

It was said that there would a chapter that might be considered to be controversial in some regions of the fandom. Sansa committing kinslaying would definitely be considered controversial by more than "some" fans and it would be out of character in my opinion. The only way I can see Sansa "killing" Sweetrobin is by accidental overdoses of sweetsleep.

[Lee-Sensei]

Isn't there a possibility that the Arryn line died with Jon anyways? It's possible that Robin could be LF's little squirt. In any case, the unexpected death of Robin could be a major hitch in LF's plans. GRRM mentioned a controversial Sansa chapter for TWoW, I can't help but wonder (after all the speculation of a rape scene was hushed) that maybe Sansa, learning from LF's own tactics, does something to "remove" Sweet Robyn from the Vale, effectively nullifying LF's tenure as well as the uneasy agreement he has with the Vale lords.

I doubt Robin is LF's child. It wouldn't serve much purpose to the plot.

It's possible that Sansa will kill SR, although I still think she'd have a better chance controlling SR than controlling Harry the Heir. It may end LF's uneasy agreement with the Vale Lords, but if she does kill SR she'd better hope the Vale lords don't find out about it. Even though they like the Starks, I find it hard to believe that the honorable Vale Lords would look past Sansa killing off a sick child... her kin, Jon Arryns son and their Lord.

It was said that there would a chapter that might be controversial in some regions of the fandom. Sansa committing kinslaying would definitely be considered controversial more than "some" fans and out of character in my opinion.

I agree with this. Sansa's a good kid. It's hard. Part of me wants her to be a great ruthless player like LF and Varys and sometimes I want her to continue being a good sympathetic kid. I can't wait to see what she does in TWoW.

[Queen Sansa Stark]

I don't think it is a coincidence that GRRM ended her last chapter in AFFC without a glimpse of her thoughts. It wouldn't surprise me that Sansa decides to defy against Littlefinger in her first chapter. Family means a lot to her. I think she would actively try to protect her second only - at least in her mind - family member.

[The Old Tongue]

I doubt Robin is LF's child. It wouldn't serve much purpose to the plot.

except for the fact that giving Lyssa Arryn a child, after the many failed attempts with Jon Arryn, would serve to solidify LF's hold over her. It also takes away a lord's legitimate claim of his domain, should the word get out that SR is LF's whelp it could seriously jeopardize Baelish's plans. The lords of the Vale are looking for any reason to remove him from the Eyrie.

[Lee-Sensei]

except for the fact that giving Lyssa Arryn a child, after the many failed attempts with Jon Arryn, would serve to solidify LF's hold over her. It also takes away a lord's legitimate claim of his domain, should the word get out that SR is LF's whelp it could seriously jeopardize Baelish's plans. The lords of the Vale are looking for any reason to remove him from the Eyrie.

Except for the fact that he doesn't need to solidify his hold over Lysa. He already had her and you'd think that she'd mention it during her breakdown, because passing off LF's bastard as the Lord of the Vale is kind of a big deal.

[setmyheartafire]

I do think Sweetrobin is Petyr's son. I think it's a tragic irony that Petyr is poisoning/drugging his real son while masquerading Sansa as his daughter.

Sweetrobin, mockingbird.

I love, love, love Joseph Fiennes as Robert Dudley in Elizabeth, and indeed she did call him Sweet Robin. I would not be surprised if that's where George got the idea for the nickname but I do agree that the Machiavellian element of his history bears more resemblance to Petyr's ladder climbing. At least for now. After all, Dudley had to fix his reputation after his father made mistakes (such as trying to put someone on the throne, which I do believe is what many people think Petyr is aiming to do?) and if Petyr gets found out well he really has made a lot of mistakes...

[Universal Sword Donor]

I was passingly familiar with Robert Dudley before, and dug in a little deeper upon seeing this thread.

Short answer: No

Long answer: No and not at all

Someone upthread mentioned him being a bit like LF. I can see that. Of all the characters in ASOIAF, he probably fits the bill the best.

Dudley was intelligent, somewhat martial, and was charismatic enough to win high-placed friends in court when he was suspected of treason (again). Frankly Hodor and Joffrey have more in common with Robert Dudley than Sweetrobin does.

[The Old Tongue]

Except for the fact that he doesn't need to solidify his hold over Lysa. He already had her and you'd think that she'd mention it during her breakdown, because passing off LF's bastard as the Lord of the Vale is kind of a big deal.

He didn't need to solidify the hold over Lysa after she poisoned her husband and escaped to the Vale. Prior to that, in order to gain her cooperation he was most likely bedding her, and a woman who's dealt with as many tragic pregnancies as she has would not be taking moon tea to prevent any bastards. I'm not saying that SR is absolutely LF's son but the only way I'd rule it out is if LF was not yet in KL prior to SR's conception.

[Veltigar]

I really don't see SR dieing. We'll not see him grow up to be a BAMF, because the series doesn't do that, but I can't imagine him dieing. What point would that serve? Especially, when HtH seems to be a massive douche who's imo being set-up as a minor antagonist in the next volume.

[Lady Howell]

I was passingly familiar with Robert Dudley before, and dug in a little deeper upon seeing this thread.

Short answer: No

Long answer: No and not at all

Someone upthread mentioned him being a bit like LF. I can see that. Of all the characters in ASOIAF, he probably fits the bill the best.

Dudley was intelligent, somewhat martial, and was charismatic enough to win high-placed friends in court when he was suspected of treason (again). Frankly Hodor and Joffrey have more in common with Robert Dudley than Sweetrobin does.

Littlefinger strikes me more as Thomas Seymour. There's even more parallels there than with Dudley.

i.e. sexual abuse.