Why is KL by far Westeros's crappiest city?

[Ocelot]

Something that puzzles me:

Every description of KL emphasizes how horrible, filthy, disgusting, crime-ridden, etc. is--but the smaller cities of Westeros (Oldtown, White Harbor, Lannisport) actually seem pretty nice. As Davos says in ADwD, quoting an old captain he knew,

Cities were like women...each had one had its own unique scent. Oldtown was as flowery as a perfumed dowager. Lannisport was

a milkmaid, fresh and earthy, with woodsmoke in her hair.

King's Landing reeked like some unwashed whore. But White

Harbor's scent was sharp and salty, and a little fishy too.

Now, KL has more trade and commerce than any city in Westeros and it is the seat of government. Why then should it be such a hellhole compared to the smaller cities of Westeros? Any ideas?

[MyrcellasShale]

I think its supposed to represent all the shit that happens there. From the peasants to the lords and King (in the case of Joffrey), almost everyone is up to no good. Representing all the filth that inhabits the city is the fact that the city itself is digusting

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Because it's where the government sits, and it's rotten.

[Werthead]

One of the problems appears to be that King's Landing lacks a specific body of governance for the city itself. The small council and the king rule the whole realm and there seems to be no intermediate city authority between them and the chaos of the streets themselves. From the sound of it, Gulltown, White Harbour, Lannisport and Oldtown all have dedicated ruling bodies to keeping order in the cities whilst KL has just been left to sprawl and grow as it will.

[Ilúvatar]

I don't see why this is strange.

I'm fairly sure London was an absolute hellhole compared to smaller towns and cities throughout a good chunk of its history. Without modern living standards, it's almost inevitable that largest, most important cities are going to be fairly unpleasant.

[Werthead]

I think the question was why King's Landing was such a craphole compared to Oldtown, which is about the same size (c. 500,000 people) and far older. Or indeed somewhere like Braavos, which appears to be both larger and more populous than KL.

[Free Northman Reborn]

I think the question was why King's Landing was such a craphole compared to Oldtown, which is about the same size (c. 500,000 people) and far older. Or indeed somewhere like Braavos, which appears to be both larger and more populous than KL.

Because Oldtown grew naturally, organically and steadily over 12000 years.

King's Landing sounds like a typical Old West gold rush town. There was no reason for a city to exist there for 11700 years. Then Aegon landed and suddenly there was a rush of people to his new seat of government.

King's Landing went from 0-500k in 300 years. Shantytowns had to be erected to accommodate the stream of peasants that flowed into it. Oldtown in turn had more than 10000 years to grow methodically.

So in short, speed of growth is what I think caused the problem.

[Werthead]

It also sounds like Aegon didn't plan KL very well. He said, "I'm going to have a new capital here," and then didn't seem to get anyone to sit down and map it out properly like 'planned cities' in our real history. As a result it just kind of sprawled.

[Shortspear Rick]

I think it's a mixture of all the things previously stated. The closest the city has to infrastructure and leadership is apparently the Gold Cloaks and their commander (essentially police and their chief), and we all know how "efficient" and "incorruptible" those guys can be. Outside of those who who reside and conduct business at the Red Keep it seems that the vast majority of the townfolk are merchants or peasants, without an established upper class area for families that have built a reputation for themselves over the centuries. It's gone from being a hill to being the capital and by far largest city of an entire continent in about 300 years. And yes, the fact that the capitol is surrounded by shit and squalor is quite symbolic. The smaller cities have rulers that are able to maintain order and cleanliness for the most part while King's Landing is run by people that can't even control their own town, let alone an entire kingdom.

[Jaak]

It is not just Janos Slynt who messed up running the city. Even Jaehaerys and Viserys I neglected to provide decent local government. Flea Bottom already existed under Queen Rhaenyra.

[The Wolves]

One of the problems appears to be that King's Landing lacks a specific body of governance for the city itself. The small council and the king rule the whole realm and there seems to be no intermediate city authority between them and the chaos of the streets themselves. From the sound of it, Gulltown, White Harbour, Lannisport and Oldtown all have dedicated ruling bodies to keeping order in the cities whilst KL has just been left to sprawl and grow as it will.

Thanks for pointing this out I never looked at it like that.

I'm surprised that Tywin in all his ruling years as Hand did not establish a House over Kingslanding. Hopefully whoever sits that ugly chair does that.

[Jaak]

Thanks for pointing this out I never looked at it like that.

I'm surprised that Tywin in all his ruling years as Hand did not establish a House over Kingslanding. Hopefully whoever sits that ugly chair does that.

That would be a stupid move. Like Petyr giving away Moon Gate to Nestor Royce.

What they´d need is a respectable but appointed official with task to run the city overall - not just Gold Cloaks - plus any villages outside that have no lord but King (like Kingswood).

[KellieBom]

I always just kind of thought that Kings Landing was the biggest city as the Capital....and let's face it, we are not dealing with functional sewers and garbage disposal systems. This is a time where bedpans are dumped out windows...LOOK OUT BELOW! There is probably sickness and disease, and ghettos like Flea Bottom. This is a giant, stinking cess pit of humanity.

Smaller towns are better maintained, because they are smaller, less disease, less people, less stinking disgusting humanity and poverty.

[Werthead]

I always just kind of thought that Kings Landing was the biggest city as the Capital....and let's face it, we are not dealing with functional sewers and garbage disposal systems. This is a time where bedpans are dumped out windows...LOOK OUT BELOW! There is probably sickness and disease, and ghettos like Flea Bottom. This is a giant, stinking cess pit of humanity.

Smaller towns are better maintained, because they are smaller, less disease, less people, less stinking disgusting humanity and poverty.

Yes, but as pointed out above Oldtown is the same size and Braavos, Qarth and possibly Meereen all appear to be a lot bigger and don't seem to have the same problems (well, Meereen might, we didn't get a good look at it before it was captured).

[Panos Targaryen]

Yes, but as pointed out above Oldtown is the same size and Braavos, Qarth and possibly Meereen all appear to be a lot bigger and don't seem to have the same problems (well, Meereen might, we didn't get a good look at it before it was captured).

Like someone said, Oldtown is a much older city, it had time to morph into its current, more organized state. KL just sprawled like crazy in 300 years. Hell, even less if you take into account that even during Viserys I's reign it was still the biggest city in Westeros, which was in 120-something. Now, the Essosi cities are much more organized also because they're older, like Oldtown, but also because the majority of their populations are slaves, obedient to their masters. Less freedom=less human chaos.

[The Wolves]

That would be a stupid move. Like Petyr giving away Moon Gate to Nestor Royce.

What they´d need is a respectable but appointed official with task to run the city overall - not just Gold Cloaks - plus any villages outside that have no lord but King (like Kingswood).

Why would it be a stupid move?

Like the poster mentioned there is no direct government over it like the other major cities in Westeros. The King and his court don't care about Kingslanding there needs to be someone who manages the city and is a intermediate for the Iron Throne and the city.

Another problem would be the people don't know who to listen to someone is always telling them something there is no consistency in the city's runnings.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

It also sounds like Aegon didn't plan KL very well. He said, "I'm going to have a new capital here," and then didn't seem to get anyone to sit down and map it out properly like 'planned cities' in our real history. As a result it just kind of sprawled.

Actually, that's what happened in my own Capital city, Lima.

Spanish conquerors came here and decided it would be the Capital of the new world just because it was close to the Sea and ports, while they completely disregarded the fact that for the Incas, that land was only for agriculture purposes: Lima is not only a desert with some fertile vales but it's hard to construct anything here due to earthquakes and the city was actually destroyed two times in 1687, 1746 and barely in 1940 (there is a new one expected in any moment).

Then, since that time (about 500 years ago), Lima keep growing and growing without control. Once we had a Republic and we got independent, it became the place everybody wanted to live because it was home of the Central government. Corruption made that no one actually planned the city and for years and years, it simply grew bigger and noisier, also, dirtier. When war times happened, people came here as refugees and they had to build their homes in the skirts of high hills, despite the dangers and once economy grew bigger, more corruption allowed everybody to built any kind of building anywhere, even if a 20store building doesn't belong to the area where has been built.

And then, people wonder why is the city a mess. Really, they don't know how. They think it's because... "dunno, immigrants!".

[Werthead]

Now, the Essosi cities are much more organized also because they're older, like Oldtown, but also because the majority of their populations are slaves, obedient to their masters. Less freedom=less human chaos.

Braavos doesn't have slaves, though, and isn't that old (800 years, which is almost brand-new by the standards of that world ;) ).

[Ocelot]

I guess it makes some sense that KL is such as dump b/c it is a "boomtown" that grew from nothing to a city of half a million in less than a century. Also, unlike most Essosi cities there are no slaves to keep it clean (like the slaves who scoop up elephant shit in Volantis). Still, considering that Westeros's rulers have to live there, you'd think that they would invest effort and resources in improving it so that at least it doesn't stink and is not so crime-ridden.

[Whitering]

It's the only real city in the books.