Jump to content

High Sparrow


CROW'S 3YE

Recommended Posts

It would be cool of he was but I don't think it is.

Howland is GNRing about the North doing secret things in secret.

If he's got Robbs will, and he knows about R+L=J.... He must be up to something. He can't possibly just be sitting at home chilling.

He hasn't been doing nothing. Probably pen pals with Doran.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's interesting that a lot of people call down the high sparrow for trying to create a theocracy, but no one seems to mind when it might be Howland Reed, a friend of Ned (and who doesn't even worship the Seven, for that matter).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's interesting that a lot of people call down the high sparrow for trying to create a theocracy, but no one seems to mind when it might be Howland Reed, a friend of Ned (and who doesn't even worship the Seven, for that matter).

I haven't heard that complaint can you elaborate?

Also if it is HR doing it then he wouldn't be trying to create a theocracy so much as put an armed "sparrow" behind every soldier and gate keeper in KL. I don't think he'd be picky about what type of government he overthrows.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The HS is what he seems, it all comes down to the arming of the faith.


  • HR wouldn't want this due to worshiping the old gods and nothing suggests that he is dumb enough to rearm the fanatics that persecuted his people since the Andels came.
  • Any political force smart enough to have engineered the HS, would see the implications of the armed faith making there eventual rule very hostile.
  • While it would fit littlefingers style/arrogance to think he could control an armed faith, he loves money to much to promote an egalitarian like the High Sparrow,
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why would Howland Reed infiltrate the enemy capital with an army of Swords and Stars?

Good question. Surely not just to perp walk Cesei naked through the streets.

He has no army of Swords and Stars. He has a poorly-armed rabble of commoners and 86 (count 'em) knights, of whom Lancel Lannister is one. If a real army hit the HS's crew they'd be scattered the way the Wildlings were by Stannis.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It begs the question though, why the hell would he be in Kings Landing? He has zero reason to be there, everyone/thing he has ties to is in the North

Not saying I agree with the theory, but I can certainly think of a few reasons off the top of my head:

  1. To help bring down the family that killed his Liege Lord/friend.

Paving the way for Jon to be crowned king (the High Septon is the man who anoints the new king, so a great position for Howland to have if that is where the story is going).

His family has greenseers! He may just know it is where he has to be (like he knew Jojen and Meera had to go to Winterfell).

The difficulty in the theory is that Howland keeps the Old Gods, so 1) might be put off the idea of pretending to be a worshipper of The Seven, and 2) might not have the knowledge required to convince people that he should be the head of their religion (although, in all fairness, he used force more than knowledge to get to the top).

However, crannogmen are known to be cunning, so I wouldn't put it past him... and the High Sparrow's description certainly sounds like a crannogman...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He has no army of Swords and Stars. He has a poorly-armed rabble of commoners and 86 (count 'em) knights, of whom Lancel Lannister is one. If a real army hit the HS's crew they'd be scattered the way the Wildlings were by Stannis.

Poorly armed rabble constitute the majority of Westeros' armies. The smallfolk rabble called the BWB has done a good bit of guerilla warfare.

This host her son had assembled was not a standing army such as the Free Cities were accustomed to maintain, nor a force of guardsmen paid in coin. Most of them were smallfolk: crofters, fieldhands, fishermen, sheepherders, the sons of innkeeps and traders and tanners, leavened with a smattering of sellswords and freeriders hungry for plunder.

The HS also the advantage of being inside the walls of KL and that of his office. Which has allowed him to withhold anointing the king, imprison 2 queens and command their trials. With the re-formation of the Warriors Sons (Swords) and Poor Fellows (Stars) we are seeing a rise in power of the Faith of the Seven to match the narrative importance of the God of Light and the Old Gods. "Mudmen are sneaks" That Howland Reed should lead Faith of the Seven against Cercei is pretty damn sneaky.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He has no army of Swords and Stars. He has a poorly-armed rabble of commoners and 86 (count 'em) knights, of whom Lancel Lannister is one. If a real army hit the HS's crew they'd be scattered the way the Wildlings were by Stannis.

He has an army of people who look like rabble. But the 'sparrows' showed up armed before the faith militant was reformed.

It benefits (maybe)HR to have people think that the sparrows are rabble. And you can hide a lot of arms and armor under loose robes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Considering how influential the character has been and, I think, will continue to be it seems appropriate that he'd have a back story that wouldn't just be "squeezed in" at the last minute. I do see a problem with HR as the HS though because crannogmen strike me as exceedingly "old gods" How would he have risen through the ranks of the Fot7? and furthermore would he betray his faith for vengeance or even a "greater good"?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He has an army of people who look like rabble. But the 'sparrows' showed up armed before the faith militant was reformed.

It benefits (maybe)HR to have people think that the sparrows are rabble. And you can hide a lot of arms and armor under loose robes.

They looked like rabble because that's what they were. They have cudgels, axes things like that. To say that they're better armed is pure wishful thinking. The fact that arms can be hidden under robes in no way means that they are.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Considering how influential the character has been and, I think, will continue to be it seems appropriate that he'd have a back story that wouldn't just be "squeezed in" at the last minute. I do see a problem with HR as the HS though because crannogmen strike me as exceedingly "old gods" How would he have risen through the ranks of the Fot7? and furthermore would he betray his faith for vengeance or even a "greater good"?

He didn't rise through the ranks. He showed up off the streets with a bunch of guys with axes and suggested a re-vote.

And I remain unconvinced that destroying the church of the 7 is betraying the old gods.

Also He swore an oath to the Starks. I think he'd betray anyone and anything on that.

They looked like rabble because that's what they were. They have cudgels, axes things like that. To say that they're better armed is pure wishful thinking. The fact that arms can be hidden under robes in no way means that they are.

We actually have no information. Just Cersi being condescending. The poor fellows have clubs and such but we don't know anything about the sparrows who showed up with axes in the beginning. They were also armed before the faith militant was reformed which is suspicious.

Now I agree lack if evidence isn't evidence. But the facts are interesting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The High Sparrow isn't Howland Reed. There's no way a guy that devoted to the Old Gods becomes the High Septon. There's also no indication that the High Sparrow isn't sincere in his faith. Also, Howland Reed hasn't been walking around enough to have the High Septon's gnarled feet. You don't get blisters walking in swamps. He was at Greywater Watch until at least ACOK. He's likely still there by ADWD coordinating the attacks on Moat Cailin. If he isn't just some random guy, I think a member of House Reyne makes more sense. If he was a younger son who had already become a Septon, he might have escaped Tywin's notice just like Maester Aemon escaped Robert's notice. A member of House Reyne would have motivation for wanting to bring down the Lannnisters and would be able to sympathize with the losses suffered by the smallfolk during the war.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dont get how you people say he would be reconized.No one ever figured out Nym/Weasel was Arya.He hasent left his swamp in 15 years.Also it doesn't really matter what gods he is pretending to worship.Both the Old Gods and the New hate 1 thing above all others.Those who violate guest right.Also it seems like something he would do as the cragonmen never "Fight fair" they are always called cowards for fighting with poison and using sneak attacks.This seems like the ultimate sneak attack to me



Also we know that he sent his children away and at the exact same time some random old guy wanders down the kingsroad and uses the recent wars to gain a massive following.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yea and people seem to forget that there is a tribe of Free-Folk who walk around barefoot also..so if people are crazy enough to walk around in the freezing snow with no shoes I don't see why a Crannoman wouldn't do the same considering they live in a swamp their whole life so they are probally some tough bastards


Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is another interesting hint about the Seven and the Old Gods.



The High Septon has a cane he uses and that cane is made out of weirwood. Some type of melding going on.



We do not know if perhaps part of the peace agreement made between the COTF and Andals was an agreement to live side by side in peace.



Freedom of choice in which faith to support. We see this in the Stark family. Also in Jon's POV we have various groups who worship old gods, the seven,and even now the red god all eating at a wedding and listening to toasts made to various gods.



There is some sort of combination of the Seven with the Old Gods. Who knows on the isle of gods if the there are not NOW seven faces carved into weirwood trees that represent the Seven alongside of all the other faces of the ancient unknown names of the old gods carved into those trees.


I actually am wondering if BloodRaven is not also using the Seven in his warfare against the southern usurpers of the IT.



We do see examples of the faith of the Seven and the Old Gods living side by side among the people in various parts of the story. The Manderlys, the Starks, many riverland castles had both sept and godswood meaning the people were free to choose which gods they wanted to serve.



Many threads have shown good hints about the Seven as foreshadowing of the Starks, or the story of Rhaegar and Lyanna.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...