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Popular theories you hope WON'T be proved


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#1 WeddinGuest

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 12:32 PM

Of course, there are theories and then there are theories. R+L=J is pretty much semi-canon around here, others such as the "Varys is a Merling" is seen as crackpot. However, I can think of many theories people allude to as near-fact, that I hope are not.

1. Jojen paste. Just find it icky. That being said, of all the theories I don't like, I admit I have the least evidence disproving it. It does seem GRRM is getting more and more controversial as the story goes along, in ADWD he even went into bestiality, and Bran eating Jojen (not just nameless NW deserters) would certainly up that ante.

2. Jon and Dany eventually hooking up, whether it be a passionate doomed affair ending in one's death or a cold political marriage. Just too cliche for me to have the "main male character" and "main female character" ending up together, when as of ADWD, neither even knows the other exists! Also, the idea of a "Targ restoration" with Jon and Dany ruling Westeros seems way too reactionary an ending for me, it's basically the Arthurian "true/hidden king restored to his rightful throne" trope, just a little gender-bent for subversiveness.

3. Anyone other than Jon Snow turning out to be a hidden Targ. Now, much of the GRRM obsession with Targ backstory in the Dunk/Egg stories as well as the recent TPatQ release is making me doubt how subversive he really is, but the idea that "the Targs are special snowflakes and will save the word, hence anyone significant to the story has hidden Targ blood" seems really cliche to me. Also, GRRM actually stated the "third head of the dragon" doesn't HAVE to be a Targ. Having that be the case and subverting a lot of the "Targs are a super-speshul chosen people" would be great for me.

4. Tyrion or Jaime actually being the valonquar. Well, okay, most fans here doubt Tyrion will be, just because Cersei thinks it is, but "Jaime is the valonquar" seems to have achieved semi-canon status here, almost to the point of R+L=J. However, I'd just really find it shoddy writing if the whole Maggy prophecy is realized in such a literal way. Even in really classic stories such as the LOTR's Witch King prophecy, or even as far back as Oedipus Rex, a prophecy being invoked usually winds up NOT coming to pass in such a literal way. I also would find it really cheesy if Jaime and Cersei winding up dying together.

5. Robb turning out to have been the victim of a love potion. Totally removes all agency from Robb. I especially hate the "Tywin himself was behind it all" version, as that essentially turns Robb into yet another young teenager Tywin rapes by proxy. Also, it's cheesy.

I'd also be displeased if a love potion is used on another character later on. The magic we see in the series so far isn't the "point a wand and say a magic word" or "brew a magic potion" simplicity that we see in, say, Harry Potter. (And even HP hints at more elemental, deeper magics that go beyond the basic magic that teens learn in school.) It's very complex, mysterious, usually requires some kind of sacrifice, and is NOT foolproof; see how much Mel misinterprets from her flames. As I noted above, while I hate the idea of Bran eating Jojen I can see how that would make sense in terms of the ASOIAF approach to magic. "Sybelle just brewed a potion and gave it to Robb" with no sacrifice involved at all, seems way too simplistic to me.

6. LS being given the "gift of mercy" by Arya. Sure, it would make narrative sense for Arya to kill LS, especially because Arya actually played a BIG part in the LS resurrection, first by dragging her body from the river when warged into Nymeria, and because it seems one reason Beric sacrificed himself to raise Cat was wanting to honor his promises to Arya. But it just seems a bit too "neat" for me.

Edited by WeddinGuest, 18 March 2014 - 12:38 PM.


#2 LooseyRoosey

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 12:35 PM

Everyone is undead, a secret Targaryen, being warged, etc. Not everything is a secret plot flip. These kinds of twists are no better than THE DETECTIVE WAS THE KILLER THE WHOLE TIME!!!


Edited by LooseyRoosey, 19 March 2014 - 10:20 PM.


#3 Pod The Rod

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 12:39 PM

LS being put out of her misery by Arya is something I desperately want to see. And I wouldn't mind Jon/Dany either.

But Jojen paste and a Robb love potion? No thank you.



#4 JLE

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 12:41 PM

I'd like to see all of these disproved, except I hope Jaime and Cersei *will* turn out to be Targs.

Jon and Dany cannot be allowed to hook up if R+L=J because, well, eww, incest, cursed by gods and man and all that, and we can't have the Targaryens laughing to the end on their "caring nothing for the laws of gods or men" schtick.

That being said I've nothing against one or both of the two of them playing their roles in whatever brings Westeros back from the brink of disaster - so long as it's in the position of heroes made by circumstance, not people whose destiny is defined by their past. That's why I think if Dany is to get any kind of redemption, she will have to choose NOT to "be a dragon". Having already come to the conclusion in Meereen when Drogon killed a child - "If they are monsters, so am I" - she has to realise that she, unlike they, has a choice in the matter, and choose not to be the monster.

Doesn't mean that the hero who saves the realm has to be the same person as the king who rules it afterwards, either.


Edited by JLE, 18 March 2014 - 12:41 PM.


#5 ghosts in winterfell

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 12:45 PM

I agree with most of the things you listed, especially numbers 2 & 3.  I would be really disappointed with any kind of Targ restoration, be it Jon or Dany.

 

Any theory involving Jon actually being dead and someone having to be sacrificed for his resurrection.



#6 WeddinGuest

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 12:45 PM

I have another popular theory I despise, yet fear will come true: That Sansa will be complicit in the death of her cousin, Robert Arryn. Now, seems it's mostly Sansa-haters who think this could happen, that Sansa will totally become LF's creature and go along with the death of an innocent who's only crime so far is to be a spoiled brat. (As opposed to Marillon and Lysa, I don't think either quite deserved to die the way they did but they were far from innocent). But if it does happen, it has been plausible and foreshadowed by her earlier actions.

#7 ser piggy of horn hill

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 12:46 PM

dont want any of the lannisters to be children of aerys



#8 Vaxis

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 12:47 PM

dont want any of the lannisters to be children of aerys



#9 Dain Storm

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 12:51 PM

While I think Aegon isn't Rhaegar's son, I don't want it to proved that he isn't, or atleast outright said. It would be much more interesting if his legitimacy is left ambiguous.

#10 StarkNaked

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 12:58 PM

dont want any of the lannisters to be children of aerys

 

This. This more than anything. 



#11 DarkGeomancer

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 01:10 PM

Howland Reed is the High Septon. He's a jerk.



#12 Chillboy

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 01:17 PM

I hope GRRM will suprise us by not proving any theory.



#13 Queen Sansa Stark

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 01:24 PM

I have another popular theory I despise, yet fear will come true: That Sansa will be complicit in the death of her cousin, Robert Arryn. Now, seems it's mostly Sansa-haters who think this could happen, that Sansa will totally become LF's creature and go along with the death of an innocent who's only crime so far is to be a spoiled brat. (As opposed to Marillon and Lysa, I don't think either quite deserved to die the way they did but they were far from innocent). But if it does happen, it has been plausible and foreshadowed by her earlier actions.

 

this so much. It seems like his death is a given on this board :(



#14 LordArryn

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 01:37 PM

That Lyanna went with Rhaegar of her own free will. I do feel bad for poor Bobby Baratheon :(



#15 Queen Sansa Stark

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 01:44 PM

That Lyanna went with Rhaegar of her own free will. I do feel bad for poor Bobby Baratheon :(

 

Why feel bad for Robert? It is Lyanna who you should be feeling bad for. She would have been stuck to an unfaithful man. And you know he would have cheated on her eventually.


Edited by The Sun of Dorne, 18 March 2014 - 01:45 PM.


#16 CorporalHicks

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 02:52 PM

I want Cersei, Jaime, and Tyrion all to be Lannisters. It just makes so much literary sense. Tywin is all about legacy, and because of that he destroyed his family and royally messed up his kids. Kind of like poetic justice, like how Walder Frey cares only about himself and his family and because of that he committed the Red Wedding and now more Freys have died because of that than in the Wot5K. Cersei idolizes and despises Tywin and that drives her character. Tyrion's whole personality is because of his father and his motivation for planning on helping Dany is just to spite his father who's dead! Jaime is less effected by Tywin but he still had a big impact on his character. It would just be a cop out to just go "haha psych, they're not even Lannisters."



#17 Pod The Impaler

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 03:10 PM

My #1 is any variant "Arya will die". NO. NON. NOPE. NEIN. NYET. NOT FUCKING HAPPENING. I abjure this whole idea !     :fencing: 

(I simply do not want it.)

 

 

 

Many people seem to call for Rickon as the next / eventual lord of Winterfell. I do not think Rickon a good candidate to rule Winterfell, compared to all the other still-alive Starks. (Of course, it's still better to have any Stark than a non-Stark.)

 

As well, I prefer the "Aegon is fake" option over the "Aegon is real" option.

 

 

 

 

 


1. Jojen paste. Just find it icky. That being said, of all the theories I don't like, I admit I have the least evidence disproving it. It does seem GRRM is getting more and more controversial as the story goes along, in ADWD he even went into bestiality, and Bran eating Jojen (not just nameless NW deserters) would certainly up that ante.

3. Anyone other than Jon Snow turning out to be a hidden Targ.

5. Robb turning out to have been the victim of a love potion. Totally removes all agency from Robb. I especially hate the "Tywin himself was behind it all" version, as that essentially turns Robb into yet another young teenager Tywin rapes by proxy. Also, it's cheesy.
 

 

 

When I first saw the topic, Jojen Paste is the first thing I thought of.

 

As well, I think we have enough "hidden Targs" (one true one, one fake one, one thought missing and presumed frozen), so please no more. 

 

I also dislike the idea that Robb was slipped some love potion by Jeyne Westerling.

That her mother would be so treacherous, I can believe, but Tywin would have to be an ace greenseer to plan such a thing out in advance, and do needlessly complicated things.

 

 

I have another popular theory I despise, yet fear will come true: That Sansa will be complicit in the death of her cousin, Robert Arryn.

 

 

I do not gate Sansa, yet even I acknowledge a degree of "uncertainty" regarding Sansa's future actions.  

Personally, I hope she tries to save the difficult little brat.



#18 Julia Martell

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 03:15 PM

Where was there bestiality in ADWD? I know it's off topic but I'm racking my brain and can't remember any.



#19 Pod The Impaler

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 03:18 PM

Where was there bestiality in ADWD? I know it's off topic but I'm racking my brain and can't remember any.

 

 

Ramsay + Theon + "Arya" (Jayne) + whatever they did with one of his dogs.  :ack:


Edited by Pod The Impaler, 18 March 2014 - 03:18 PM.


#20 Julia Martell

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 03:20 PM

Wow- reread time because I completely missed that.... must have repressed it.