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Daenerys Stormborn - A Re-Read Project Part II: ACoK & ASoS


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Daenerys IV - ACoK


The House of the Undying




SUMMARY



We begin the chapter with Dany’s arrival at the House of the Undying. After trying and failing to gather support from the Pureborn and Xaro she now seeks the help of the Undying in order to help her conquer Westeros. The House is nothing like Dany imagined instead of encountering a beautiful building to match the spenders of Qarth, she encounters a decaying ruin. The House is so rounded by black trees with blue leaves, from these trees the Undying make the shades of the evening drink that turns their lips blue.



She is warned by Xaro, Jorah, and her blood riders not to go in and even Drogon is disquieted by the place. However, Dany dismisses there concerns, she know that the only way she can speak to the Undying is if she enters the House by herself. Pyat Pree appears and leads Dany towards the HOTU. When they reach the entrance they turn towards the back, Pyat tells her the the front entrance only allows people in, not out. As they walk towards the back door he gives her strict instructions and a warning she must follow, should she ever wish to ever leave the HOTU. She can only ever take the first door to the right and can only ever go up.



Pyat tells her what she might see through the open doors which she cannot enter: Sights and sounds of days gone by and days to come and days that never were. Dwellers and servitors may speak to you as you go.” Once they reach the back door she is met there by a tiny dwarf who offers Dany a glass of shades of the evening, the warlock says she must drink it in order to open her mind to what she will see. Once she finishes drinking the wizards wine she enter the HOTU. While in there she experiences many visions she then enters the audience chamber where the Undying are, they try to take her and keep her there. She is able to escape with the help of Drogon and the HOTU is set on fire. As she makes her way out Pyat tries to attack her but is stopped by Drogon and Jhogo.




OBSERVATIONS



  • Dany refers to herself as a khal: “Some places even a khal must walk alone,” Dany said.
  • Jorah’s possessiveness of Dany is growing. He becomes very irritated when Xaro mentions the pleasure barge.
  • Dany prays to both the Seven and the Horse God: “The blood of the dragon must not be afraid. Dany said a quick prayer, begging the Warrior for courage and the Dothraki horse god for strength.
  • Shades of the evening is referred to as the warlocks wine this made me think of Euron and what unknown powers might he have.
  • The magic we see in the HOTU is different from what we had previously seen (i.e. MMD).
  • Day is given answer but she doesn’t have the appropriate knowledge to understand what the visions mean.


ANALYSIS



The Nature of Magic



“Ser Jorah Mormont gave the merchant prince a sour look. “Your Grace, remember Mirri Maz Duur.”



Dany is warned by her bloodriders, Xaro and Ser Jorah of the danger of entering the House of the Undying. After what happened with Mirri, Dany doesn’t exactly trust the Undying, however, she feels like she needs their knowledge in order to guide her on her journey. She did exhaust her other options and in reality this was the last option left to her. Her resolve seems intuitive, she is being guided by instincts once again.



Even with Dany's need to find direction, I do wonder why she would decide to go into the HOTU, as her first encounter with magic and maegi did not go well. Could it be perhaps that she sees the birth of her dragons as her conquering over the magic that was done against her?



Rotten on the Outside, Rotten ow the Inside



“The mold-eaten carpet under her feet had once been gorgeously colored, and whorls of gold could still be seen in the fabric, glinting broken amidst the faded grey and mottled green.”



The facade of the HOTU is a true representation of what the Undying have become. From the descriptions we get from the inside they must have been once a very powerful and wealthily group, the decorations were once beautiful and expensive yet now they are decaying just like their House.



Reading the descriptions of the now decaying glory of the HOTU, I wonder if their fate was tied to that of the dragons / fire magic. If the dragons have been gone for 150 years that would explain the amount of decay we see in the HOTU. If the birth of the dragons then brought the magic back full force it would explain why they were so interested in Dany and her dragons.



Drogon



“Drogon lashed against her back, urging her on, and Dany ran until she could run no more.”



Dany brining Drogon with her was a very good idea. From the beginning he does not trust the Undying, hissing at the house. He manages to keep Dany on track as well as saving her life. He demonstrates and intelligence and intuition greater than expected for a dragon, I think.



After she hatched her dragons this is the first time we see Dany and Drogon's bond at work. His understands the threat against her and does everything he can to guide her and later save her life.



Ebony & Weirwood



“To her right , a set of wide wooden doors had been thrown open. They were fashioned of ebony and weirwood, the black and white grains swirling and twisting in strange interwoven patterns. They were very beautiful, yet somehow frightening.”




The is the second time we’ve encountered the combination of ebony and weirwood in doors, the first time was in the home of Tobbo Mott the blacksmith:



“The double doors showed a hunting scene carved in ebony and weirwood. A pair of stone knights stood sentry at the entrance, armored in fanciful suits of polished red steel that transformed them into griffin and unicorn.”



The third time in in the House of Black and White:



“At the top she found a set of carved wooden doors twelve feet high. The left-hand door was made of weirwood pale as bone, the right of gleaming ebony. In their center was a carved moon face; ebony on the weirwood side, weirwood on the ebony. The look of it reminded her somehow of the heart tree in the godswood at Winterfell.”



An interesting combination, it makes me wonder what kind of magical properties are brought together by combining these two woods. Later in the series will see Dany seated in an ebony bench which she uses as a throne, her magical counterpart a Bran will later sit in a weirwood throne.



The Blue Heart



“Above it floated a human heart, swollen and blue with corruption, yet still alive. It beat, a deep ponderous throb of sound, and each pulse sent out a wash of indigo light.”


Could this heart be the only remaining source of the power and life left of the Undying? The color blue has a very prominent role in this chapter. It is used to representative the Undying. It’s funny because the color blue can also be considered representative of the Others (ice) and the WW (blue eyes). and perhaps the Heart of Winter. However, like with most things in the series there are two sides to it. We have the ice dragons the skies which helps guide those in the North, and the blue roses which Lyanna loved.



They were reaching for her, touching her, tugging at her cloak, the hem of her skirt, her foot, her leg, her breast. They wanted her, needed her, the fire, the life, and Dany gasped and opened her arms to give herself to them …



“…the fire, the life..” This must be the true reason they wanted Dany, they are cold and dying and Dany has the fire and the life within her. The dragons might be a representation (manifestation?) of this.



“Then indigo turned to orange, and whispers turned to screams. Her heart was pounding, racing, the hands and mouths were gone, heat washed over her skin, and Dany blinked at a sudden glare. Perched above her, the dragon spread his wings and tore at the terrible dark heart, ripping the rotten flesh to ribbons, and when his head snapped forward, fire flew from his open jaws, bright and hot.”



“the indigo turned to organ” Ice turned to Fire (ASoIaF!). Here we see again that fire is life, what the Undying crave the most (life & Fire) is what eventually destroys them.



Shades of the Evening & Weirwood Paste



“Dany raised the glass to her lips. The first sip tasted like ink and spoiled meat, foul, but when she swallowed, it seemed to come to life within her. She could feel tendrils spreading through her chest, like fingers of fire coiling around her heart, and on her tongue the taste was like honey and anise and cream, like mother's milk and Drogo's seed, like red meat and hot blood and molten gold. It was like all the tastes she had ever known, and none of them . . . and then the glass was empty.”



“It had a bitter taste, though not so bitter as the acorn paste. The first spoonful was the hardest to get down. He almost retched it right back up. The second tasted better. The third was almost sweet. The rest he spooned up eagerly. Why had he thought that it was bitter? It tasted of honey, of new-fallen snow, of pepper and cinnamon and the last kiss his mother gave him. The empty bowl slipped from his fingers and clattered on the floor.”



I just wanted to point out how similar these descriptions are. What at firs tasted bitter and spoiled becomes rich and sweet enough to taste like honey. Both of these substances are meant to allow both Dany and Bran to expand their sensesin order to understand what they are about to see and experience.



The Visions



Now to discuss the meaty part of the chapter.




“In one room, a beautiful woman sprawled naked on the floor while four little men crawled over her. They had rattish pointed faces and tiny pink hands, like the servitor who had brought her the glass of shade. One was pumping between her thighs. Another savaged her breasts, worrying at the nipples with his wet red mouth, tearing and chewing…”



Many believe this is a representation of the four remaining kings of Westeros savaging the land in order to get the Throne. Balon crowned himself after Renly died so there were only ever four kings vying for the throne at any one time.



“Farther on she came upon a feast of corpses. Savagely slaughtered, the feasters lay strewn across overturned chairs and hacked trestle tables, asprawl in pools of congealing blood. Some had lost limbs, even heads. Severed hands clutched bloody cups, wooden spoons , roast fowl, heels of bread. In a throne above them sat a dead man with the head of a wolf. He wore an iron crown and held a leg of lamb in one hand as a king might hold a scepter, and his eyes followed Dany with mute appeal.”



This is foreshadowing of the Red Wedding. I wondered why would Dany be shown this particular vision as she has no connection to what happened. At first I thought GRRM was putting the scene there to give the readers the foreshadowing. However, after reading the chapter again the last sentence caught my eye: “… and his eyes followed Dany with mute appeal.” what is he appealing to her for? Might Dany help the Starks right that wrong?



She fled from him, but only as far as the next open door. I know this room, she thought. She remembered those great wooden beams and the carved animal faces that adorned them. And there outside the window, a lemon tree! The sight of it made her heart ache with longing. It is the house with the red door, the house in Braavos. No sooner had she thought it than old Ser Willem came into the room, leaning heavily on his stick. “Little princess, there you are,” he said in his gruff kind voice. “Come,” he said, “come to me, my lady, you’re home now, you’re safe now.” His big wrinkled hand reached for her, soft as old leather, and Dany wanted to take it and hold it and kiss it, she wanted that as much as she had ever wanted anything. Her foot edged forward, and then she thought, He’s dead, he’s dead , the sweet old bear, he died a long time ago. She backed away and ran.



This is a vision of Dany;s time in Braavos, in the House with the Red Doors. More than a vision of the past it most like was temptation by the Undying in order for Dany to forget the rules. Dany, however, remembers that Darry is dead and is able to keep herself on track.



The skulls of dead dragons looked down from its walls. Upon a towering barbed throne sat an old man in rich robes, an old man with dark eyes and long silver-grey hair. “Let him be king over charred bones and cooked meat,” he said to a man below him. “Let him be the king of ashes.” Drogon shrieked , his claws digging through silk and skin, but the king on his throne never heard, and Dany moved on.”



Here we see King Aerys (Dany’s father) in King’s Landing, the war has been lost and it looks like he is plotting to blow up King’s Landing. I think the “he” King Aerys is speaking of is Robert.



Viserys, was her first thought the next time she paused, but a second glance told her otherwise. The man had her brother’s hair, but he was taller, and his eyes were a dark indigo rather than lilac. “Aegon,” he said to a woman nursing a newborn babe in a great wooden bed. “What better name for a king?” “Will you make a song for him?” the woman asked. “He has a song,” the man replied. “He is the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire.” He looked up when he said it and his eyes met Dany’s, and it seemed as if he saw her standing there beyond the door. “There must be one more,” he said, though whether he was speaking to her or the woman in the bed she could not say. “The dragon has three heads.”



Here we see what is apparently a vision of Dany’s oldest brother Rhaegar, his wife Elia and their newborn son Aegon. For the first time we hear the title of the series and we hear for the first time the phrase the dragon has three heads.



At this point in her journey through the HOTU the vision become more vague in nature. We know the characters in this scene, however, we are introduced to concepts that as of now we don’t quite understand. The Song of Ice and Fire we’re told has many meaning, some we have been able to decipher others not so much. Rhaegar was obsessed with the Prince that was Promise prophecy and seemed to want to replicate the trio of Aegon the Conqueror. Perhaps believing or interpreting something in the text that it would be a “union” or “partnership” that would represent the idea of the dragon has three heads.



Rhaegar looks at Dany when he says “there must be one more” as part of the instructions given to her by Pyat Pree he said that some of the vision will interact with her, it seems like Rhaegar was indeed interacting with her. I believe it will be Dany’s job to assemble the three heads of the dragon.



The number three plays a prominent role in this chapter as well as in Dany’s arc, GRRM has associate the number with Dany throughout the series and, I imagine that her her arc might be divided in three acts.



“… mother of dragons … came a voice, part whisper and part moan … dragons … dragons … dragons … other voices echoed in the gloom. Some were male and some female. One spoke with the timbre of a child.”



Male, female, child, hmmm….



“… the shape of shadows … morrows not yet made … drink from the cup of ice … drink from the cup of fire … … mother of dragons … child of three … “Three?” She did not understand. … three heads has the dragon …"



Again we see the concept of ice and fire mentioned in unison. The Undying tell Dany that she must drink from both of them, this gives me the impression that to drink from both cups is to find balance. The Undying call her “mother of dragons…child of three…” when Dany tells them she doesn’t understand they repeat the phrase she had just heard Rhaegar say “…three head has the dragon…” I think this clearly indicates that Dany is part of the “three heads of the dragons” she is after all the “child of three”.



"… three fires must you light … one for life and one for death and one to love …


… three mounts must you ride … one to bed and one to dread and one to love … three treasons will you know … once for blood and once for gold and once for love…”



Some of these I believe have come to pass, some I don’t believe we have seen yet. They are all on whole quite vague.



Fires: The fire for life I believe was the lighting of the pyre where the dragons were born. For death, I’m unsure if we have already seen this one come to pass, however, it could be the sacking of Astapor although I’m unsure of that. The fire to love seems to indicate that it my be a fire that will guide her to love.



Mounts: These can either be literal or metaphorical, I’m not sure we can tell either way. If they are literal mounts, then the first one was her silver who she rode to her wedding consummation, The second one was Drogon who is often compared to Balerion the Black Dread. I don’t think we know what / who the third mount will be although I’m include to believe it’s Ghost. Her silver (gray), Drogon (black) and Ghost (white).



Treasons: The treason for blood I believe it was Mirri, whether you believe Mirri was justified in her revenge, Dany felt breathed. As for the other two treasons I’m not sure we have seen either of them happen. Dany herself speculated it might have been Jorah who betrayed her for gold, but Jorah didn’t betray her for gold, he did it for a pardon.



“I don’t understand,” she said, more loudly. Why was it so hard to talk here? “Help me. Show me.” … help her … the whispers mocked. … show her …"



Dany doesn’t understand, the oh so obvious words (/sarcasm) they have spoken to her. She asked for clarification and the Undying oblige. I think there is a connection between what they have just told her and what they are about to show her. She asked for clarification and they are giving it to her. However, I don’t know how the two might be connected.



"Viserys screamed as the molten gold ran down his cheeks and filled his mouth. A tall lord with copper skin and silver-gold hair stood beneath the banner of a fiery stallion, a burning city behind him. Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a woman’s name. … mother of dragons, daughter of death …"



The first vision is the death of Viserys at the hands of Khal Drogo, the second vision seems to be of her son Rhaego, this of course will never come to pass, the third vision is the death of her brother Rhaegar at the Trident, the name he murmured was Lyanna (I’m told this is confirm in the app). At the end they call her “daughter of death” all three of these deaths played an important role in Dany’s life, shaping the woman she has and will become.



"Glowing like sunset, a red sword was raised in the hand of a blue-eyed king who cast no shadow. A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd. From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire. … mother of dragons, slayer of lies …"



The first vision is almost surely a representation of Stannis, he has blue eyes, he has no shadow, and his sword has been described as being as bright as the sun. The second vision seems to either indicate Aegon and/or Varys/Illyrio. The third vision is a bit harder to decipher, I’m inclined to believe it must be another kind of pretender. At the end of the set the Undying call Dany “slayer of lies”, Stannis is pretending to be Azor Ahai, Aegon and Varys/Illyrio are pretending that Aegon is the true born son of Rhaegar Targaryen. Some believe that the third vision might be Jon, however, I don’t believe it is. When Dany slays the first two lies it will be a fall from grace for both Stannis and Aegon (Varys & Illyrio), I believe that whoever is being represented int he third vision will also fall from grace when Dany slays their lie.



"Her silver was trotting through the grass, to a darkling stream beneath a sea of stars. A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly. A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness. … mother of dragons, bride of fire …”



The final set of three pared visions seem to represent Dany’s husbands. The first vision describes her first night with Drogo on her wedding day. The second and third vision are a bit more tricky. There is a lot of debate about who the second vision represents, some believe it might be Victarion, I however, believe it is Hizface. I think that what we are seeing is Hizface being tied to a Greyjoy ship as a figurehead by Victarion who we know wants to kill Hizface. The third and final vision is most likely a representation of Jon as his mother (if R+L=J is true) loved blue winter roses, and his father once gave her a crowned of them.



The “filled the air with sweetness” indicates that this will be a source of happiness for Dany. If we look at the vision as a whole we can see that it symbolizes hope and perseverance. The imagine of a flower growing out of concrete or any harsh environment is commonly used to represent perseverance against the odds, as well as hope. Another interpretation could be the coming of Spring, a blower growing after the long, harsh winter finally making it’s way out onto the surface. As this is the last vision Dany sees from the large grouping it makes me think of the finally title of the series A Dream of Spring. Surviving after the Long Night, persevering, seeing signs that spring might come, giving hope, that indeed would be sweet.



Now, I’m inclined to believe in a Dany and Jon union, however, I would not be surprised if this merely means Dany will find happiness in having found a member of her family.



“Faster and faster the visions came, one after the other , until it seemed as if the very air had come alive. Shadows whirled and danced inside a tent, boneless and terrible."



These are the final vision Dany receives from the Undying. This is of the night Mirri worked her magic in the tent with Drogo.




"A little girl ran barefoot toward a big house with a red door. "



A vision of Dany’s past.



"Mirri Maz Duur shrieked in the flames, a dragon bursting from her brow. "



A vision of the pyre when Dany burned Mirri and the dragon hatched.



"Behind a silver horse the bloody corpse of a naked man bounced and dragged."



When Drogo tied the wine seller to Dnay’s silver after the wine seller tried to poison Dany.



"A white lion ran through grass taller than a man."



Some think this might be representing a Lanister, although, it could be a representation of the lion Drogo hunts for Dany.



"Beneath the Mother of Mountains, a line of naked crones crept from a great lake and knelt shivering before her, their grey heads bowed. "



If Dany is names the Stallion who Mounts the World (as I suspect) this would show us the crones bowing down to her and accepting her as the Khal of Khals.



“Ten thousand slaves lifted bloodstained hands as she raced by on her silver, riding like the wind. “Mother!” they cried. “Mother, mother!” They were reaching for her, touching her, tugging at her cloak, the hem of her skirt, her foot, her leg, her breast. They wanted her, needed her, the fire, the life, and Dany gasped and opened her arms to give herself to them …”



This is a vision of the slaves of Yunkai after Dany frees them.



CONCLUSION



This is a jam-packed chapter with all kinds of foreshadowing and symbolism. it’s probably my favorite chapter in the book, closely followed by the birth of the dragons. Dany and the readers receive a lot of information and we are left with more questions than answers. GRRM gives us the information but like Dany we don’t have the key to understanding what it really means.


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Thank you very much for that very thorough summary. It's certainly one of my favourite chapters.

I think that the vision of the Undying as great wizards and lords and ladies is what they were. They must have made one of those deals with the devil where you get awarded immortality, but never stop ageing, like the Nazgul. They've never died - just faded away. I'd like to know more about their history. Did they plan to kill Dany, or to make her one of them? They must have thought that by taking Drogon, their magic would revive.

I'm genuinely puzzled by the blue-eyed king, with the red sword. It may be Stannis, yet the reference to his casting no shadow suggests the king is (un) dead, and Stannis is alive. It could perhaps be Jon, after being raised from the dead by Melisandre. Or perhaps it's a reference to a king or Lord Commander (either Stannis, or Jon) giving Melisandre his soul with his seed, like the Night's King.

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Thank you very much for that very thorough summary. It's certainly one of my favourite chapters.

I'm genuinely puzzled by the blue-eyed king, with the red sword. It may be Stannis, yet the reference to his casting no shadow suggests the king is (un) dead, and Stannis is alive. It could perhaps be Jon, after being raised from the dead by Melisandre. Or perhaps it's a reference to a king or Lord Commander (either Stannis, or Jon) giving Melisandre his soul with his seed, like the Night's King.

You are very welcome! :D

Really? I thought it was a pretty clear description of Stannis. To me the casting no shadow is twofold. First, due to him making shadow babies with Mel he has given up his shadow. But secondly and most important I think the quote by Varys about how shadows are the power some cast over other people rings true in this situation. Stannis should be king by right, he is or should be Robert's heir. He has given himself the title and the crown (rightfully so) but he cast no shadow over Westeros, he has no power over the land. He is a king without any real power.

Anyhow, that's how I saw it

ETA: To reiterate what I said in my analysis, I think the Slayer of Lies is about unmasking pretenders, and I don't really see Jon as a pretender.

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snip

Great analysis MOIAF :bowdown:

I havent read the chapter yet so I'll comment more when I have read it.

But some interesting things from your essay:

The skulls of dead dragons looked down from its walls. Upon a towering barbed throne sat an old man in rich robes, an old man with dark eyes and long silver-grey hair. “Let him be king over charred bones and cooked meat,” he said to a man below him. “Let him be the king of ashes.” Drogon shrieked , his claws digging through silk and skin, but the king on his throne never heard, and Dany moved on.”

In this scene Drogon shrieked when Aerys appeared probably cause of the dead dragons, which means he was able to see the vision aswell, however only Dany drank the shade of the evening so I wonder if he was able to see because of his bond to Dany or whether dragons don't need shade of the evening to see these visions.

"… three fires must you light … one for life and one for death and one to love …

… three mounts must you ride … one to bed and one to dread and one to love … three treasons will you know … once for blood and once for gold and once for love…”

I think this is a sign Dany's storyline will end with something about love.

She will be betreayed for love, mount for love and will light a fire for love.

Thank you very much for that very thorough summary. It's certainly one of my favourite chapters.

I think that the vision of the Undying as great wizards and lords and ladies is what they were. They must have made one of those deals with the devil where you get awarded immortality, but never stop ageing, like the Nazgul. They've never died - just faded away. I'd like to know more about their history. Did they plan to kill Dany, or to make her one of them? They must have thought that by taking Drogon, their magic would revive.

I'm genuinely puzzled by the blue-eyed king, with the red sword. It may be Stannis, yet the reference to his casting no shadow suggests the king is (un) dead, and Stannis is alive. It could perhaps be Jon, after being raised from the dead by Melisandre. Or perhaps it's a reference to a king or Lord Commander (either Stannis, or Jon) giving Melisandre his soul with his seed, like the Night's King.

I've also thought of that possibility before

Burning shafts hissed upward, trailing tongues of fire. Scarecrow brothers tumbled down, black cloaks ablaze. "Snow," an eagle cried, as foemen scuttled up the ice like spiders. Jon was armored in black ice, but his blade burned red in his fist. As the dead men reached the top of the Wall he sent them down to die again. He slew a greybeard and a beardless boy, a giant, a gaunt man with filed teeth, a girl with thick red hair. Too late he recognized Ygritte. She was gone as quick as she’d appeared.

Also a description of Lyanna's rose

A storm of rose petals blew across a blood-streaked sky, as blue as the eyes of death.
Also when someone is resurrected by "others magic" their eyes change blue
My number one is Stannis but I think Jon is also a fair assumption.
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But a maester's power comes through their control of science, so don't think of this as fear of magic - think of it as destroying one power base to advance their own. Magic will always be an appealing short cut, regardless of any long-term problems. People (especially powerful lords and kings) want problems solved immediately rather than through long-term research, testing and application.

The maesters are often associated with science in these forums. I don't think there is much to this supposed link. The fact that a group tends toward materialism doesn't make them scientists. The maesters have some ability in medicine, some knowledge of history, etc. However, their attitude toward magic is based on dogma and politics. Science demands a significant focus on empiricism, a determination to look at the world as it is. This matter was a significant part of my thread "Virgin Legion and Maesters' Dogma" :

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/90340-systemic-v-virgin-legion-maesters-dogma/

Marwyn is very much the exception at the Citadel on the matter of magic. He actually does something that might be called science. I'll have more to say about him after we discuss another Dany POV or two.

For her to sacrifice her dragons would be like sacrificing a part of herself, it's a pretty big sacrafice. I'm not sure that's what the quote means. I think GRRM meant that magic (any kind) will not be a deux ex machina to fight the WfD. Magic, the direwolves, the dragons are mrarely tools, they cannot solve the problems. Frankly, I don't see why Dany would have to pay again for using something she already paid for.

If Dany doesn't survive the series it will be out of choice, I think.

I'm not sure how the matter of suffering and sacrifice will play out for Dany. I do say that there is another issue here. In our culture, we tend to think of things like proper punishment, paying your debt to society, rehabilitation, etc. when thinking about crime. We think of penance if and when we consider the matter of sin. In the world of Ice and Fire, however, religion as well as magic has a dark aspect. The gods are not necessarily good guys. In truth, they sometimes seem anything but good. The idea of balance is not too closely associated with rectitude and virtue. A certain order may be necessary for the functioning of the world, but this order doesn't have to be for the benefit of humanity. Jaqen H'ghar, for example, tells Arya "A man owes three" and "The Red God has his due..." This in no way implies that three villains must die. There is a balance required, but said balance doesn't have to involve the scales of justice.

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Daenerys IV - ACoK

The House of the Undying

<snip>

Very nice work. Quite the beastly chapter to have to tackle for analysis. Might be the worst one in the book actually, so again nicely done.

In the Jon reread someone pointed out the theme that the shortest path is not always the best (might have been in the Sam chapter fleeing Craster's.) He or she pointed to Brienne's path to get to the Quiet Isle as the best metaphorical example of this and we see it here too both in the proper entrance to the House of the Undying and the trip through the house as well.

Particularly on a first read, Dany is a huge tease to the seemingly central Iron Throne conflict back in Westeros. The scheming, the battles, the rising and falling political fortunes are all tainted by this young girl with dragons just waiting to step on to the stage. All of these visions really play up that expectation and there is a huge temptation to try and figure it all out. It is the lure of prophecy instilled into the reader-- not that we shouldn't bite.

How much of this taking the Iron Throne dream is really Dany's dream and desire? Last chapter she tells Xaro that the Arbor makes the best wines. Is that her palate or Viserys talking? She thought of wanting to return to Vaes Tolloro and make it bloom but called it defeat to herself. Is it her defeat or Viserys? When Dany arrives in Meereen she chooses to do exactly that-- stop and try and make it bloom. I'm left wondering what Dany really wants for herself. There's the obvious house with the red door which is a metaphor for home, but Westeros is Ser Jorah's home, Viserys' home. Is it Dany's? She certainly thinks it is as of Dany IV ACoK.

The trip through the House of Undying is very much like her waking the dragon dream. It is an elaborate version of her being chased down the hallway. The torches in the hallway going out is probably the clearest reference to the other dream. There it was Dany embracing or becoming the dragon that allows her to step through the red door that symbolized home. Here, at the end of a long series of false doors, we see others latching on to Dany and draining her life and it is the literal dragon Drogon destroying the half corrupted half dead heart that frees her. I think this is expanding on the metaphor of her first dream though I'm not sure how to translate this into a decent prediction worthy of our prophecy filled chapter.

I was never fond of the four dwarves raping the woman as a Westeros at war image. It works and isn't inaccurate but it never felt like it had a nexus to Dany's personal story. Rereading it here it seems to be a very clear image of what happens to her at the hands of the Undying at the end of the chapter. The illusion or vision Dany has just before she sees what the Undying are really doing to her is of her role as Mysha.

They were reaching for her, touching her, tugging at her cloak, the hem of her skirt, her foot, her leg, her breast. They wanted her, needed her, the fire, the life, and Dany gasped and opened her arms to give herself to them…

It is somewhat reminiscent of her time in Meereen where Dany is so open to trying to give in response to others' needs that it begins to drain the life from her. Meereen also seems likely to taste dragonfire in a way that will free Dany from at least some of its life draining pull. That is a theme in Dany's arc. Illyrio expected her to die on the Dothraki Sea essentially draining the life from her to obtain his own ends. The Green Grace and the Hizdar marriage have a similar self serving life draining theme.

I think the whole journey through the House of the Undying works as an elaboration on her initial dragon transformation dream which may well be a synopsis of her whole arc. I imagine that makes the order of the visions here of far greater importance. I still see overtones of Dany eventually choosing mud over fire and a certain personal happiness after long struggling to provide for others. What is curious to me is that I come to very different conclusions about these visions if I start from the premise of a Dany returning to Westeros to conquer than I do if I start with the House with the Red Door as the metaphorical premise.

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Good job, Maester of Ice and Fire

As to Dany's connection to the RW, I think she will be part of their vengeance, and give the Twins the same treatment Aegon the Conqueror gave Harrenhal.

There must be another

I don't think Dany is one of the three heads as it is singular "dragon with three heads," not dragons. Rhaegar saying there must be a third may likely point to a third child by Rhaegar, Jon. That third child may be the dragon with three heads. That is not to say Dany won't have any role whatsoever, I think she will have an important role in both Essos and Westeros.

Mounts

As for the mounts, I think they are lovers/consorts. The mount to bed is Daario, the mount to dread is Hizdahr whose marriage she dreaded, and the mount to love may be her last husband. I won't mention his name for fear you might send an FM after me.


Treasons

As for the treasons, I think the one for gold is Brown Ben Plumm, possibly if he defects to Aegon and the Golden Company. The one for blood may have been MMD, but I think the prophecies of mounts could refer to the future, after Dany's encounter with the Undying. I think the treason for love will be Tyrion freeing Jaime, and helping him escape after Jaime is captured in battle by Dany's forces.


"Glowing like sunset, a red sword was raised in the hand of a blue-eyed king who cast no shadow. A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd. From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire. … mother of dragons, slayer of lies …"

The first vision is almost surely a representation of Stannis, he has blue eyes, he has no shadow, and his sword has been described as being as bright as the sun. The second vision seems to either indicate Aegon and/or Varys/Illyrio. The third vision is a bit harder to decipher, I’m inclined to believe it must be another kind of pretender. At the end of the set the Undying call Dany “slayer of lies”, Stannis is pretending to be Azor Ahai, Aegon and Varys/Illyrio are pretending that Aegon is the true born son of Rhaegar Targaryen. Some believe that the third vision might be Jon, however, I don’t believe it is. When Dany slays the first two lies it will be a fall from grace for both Stannis and Aegon (Varys & Illyrio), I believe that whoever is being represented int he third vision will also fall from grace when Dany slays their lie.

I think the third does point to Jon. The third visions always has something to do with Jon, Rhaegar dying on the Trident saying Lyanna's name in the first, and the blue flower growing the Wall, a hint to R+L in the third. Apple did a thread on it. The last lie Dany will slay may be the lie of Jon's identity, being Ned's bastard, or the public unveiling of R+L=J. Stones are associated with hiding things throughout the series like Sansa's alias "Alayne Stone," Rickon hiding on Skagos which means "stone" in the Old Tongue, and Arya hiding Needle under a stone at the HoBW. Dragons are associated with Targaryens in visions, and a stone dragon could be a hidden Targaryen. There is foreshadowing in her last POV in ADwD that supports this interpretation, but I don't want to mention it until that chapter comes up so as not to get ahead. I don't think it necessarily has to be someone's fall from grace for it to be a lie to slay. The other two I agree with.

Bride of fire

I think this may refer to Dany being married to fire. This one is tricky.

A corpse stood at the prow of the ship, grey lips smiling sadly.

"And the young one?"
"Killed his father."
Tyrion gave the rotting head a second look. Why, it almost looks as if those lips are smiling.

I think it points to Tyrion, with the the head of the one who killed his father referring to him. He could be turning grey from the inside out like Haldon said.

I don't think "filled the air with sweetness" will be good for Dany given the negative connotations with "sweet."

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Very nice work. Quite the beastly chapter to have to tackle for analysis. Might be the worst one in the book actually, so again nicely done.

In the Jon reread someone pointed out the theme that the shortest path is not always the best (might have been in the Sam chapter fleeing Craster's.) He or she pointed to Brienne's path to get to the Quiet Isle as the best metaphorical example of this and we see it here too both in the proper entrance to the House of the Undying and the trip through the house as well.

Particularly on a first read, Dany is a huge tease to the seemingly central Iron Throne conflict back in Westeros. The scheming, the battles, the rising and falling political fortunes are all tainted by this young girl with dragons just waiting to step on to the stage. All of these visions really play up that expectation and there is a huge temptation to try and figure it all out. It is the lure of prophecy instilled into the reader-- not that we shouldn't bite.

How much of this taking the Iron Throne dream is really Dany's dream and desire? Last chapter she tells Xaro that the Arbor makes the best wines. Is that her palate or Viserys talking? She thought of wanting to return to Vaes Tolloro and make it bloom but called it defeat to herself. Is it her defeat or Viserys? When Dany arrives in Meereen she chooses to do exactly that-- stop and try and make it bloom. I'm left wondering what Dany really wants for herself. There's the obvious house with the red door which is a metaphor for home, but Westeros is Ser Jorah's home, Viserys' home. Is it Dany's? She certainly thinks it is as of Dany IV ACoK.

The trip through the House of Undying is very much like her waking the dragon dream. It is an elaborate version of her being chased down the hallway. The torches in the hallway going out is probably the clearest reference to the other dream. There it was Dany embracing or becoming the dragon that allows her to step through the red door that symbolized home. Here, at the end of a long series of false doors, we see others latching on to Dany and draining her life and it is the literal dragon Drogon destroying the half corrupted half dead heart that frees her. I think this is expanding on the metaphor of her first dream though I'm not sure how to translate this into a decent prediction worthy of our prophecy filled chapter.

I was never fond of the four dwarves raping the woman as a Westeros at war image. It works and isn't inaccurate but it never felt like it had a nexus to Dany's personal story. Rereading it here it seems to be a very clear image of what happens to her at the hands of the Undying at the end of the chapter. The illusion or vision Dany has just before she sees what the Undying are really doing to her is of her role as Mysha.

It is somewhat reminiscent of her time in Meereen where Dany is so open to trying to give in response to others' needs that it begins to drain the life from her. Meereen also seems likely to taste dragonfire in a way that will free Dany from at least some of its life draining pull. That is a theme in Dany's arc. Illyrio expected her to die on the Dothraki Sea essentially draining the life from her to obtain his own ends. The Green Grace and the Hizdar marriage have a similar self serving life draining theme.

I think the whole journey through the House of the Undying works as an elaboration on her initial dragon transformation dream which may well be a synopsis of her whole arc. I imagine that makes the order of the visions here of far greater importance. I still see overtones of Dany eventually choosing mud over fire and a certain personal happiness after long struggling to provide for others. What is curious to me is that I come to very different conclusions about these visions if I start from the premise of a Dany returning to Westeros to conquer than I do if I start with the House with the Red Door as the metaphorical premise.

Great post

I agree on alot of things here, especially on Dany and Westeros. Especially on the point of Viserys and Jorah.

I think deep down Dany doesn't want to be queen of westeros, its just a duty she has forced upon herself, her comments of Vaes tolloro and choice to stay in meereen as you said are very telling. Also a quote I posted up thread in AGOT also seems telling.

What is curious to me is that I come to very different conclusions about these visions if I start from the premise of a Dany returning to Westeros to conquer than I do if I start with the House with the Red Door as the metaphorical premise.

Thats an interesting way to look at it, it brings some meaning to alot of the prophecies.

Good job, Maester of Ice and Fire

As to Dany's connection to the RW, I think she will be part of their vengeance, and give the Twins the same treatment Aegon the Conqueror gave Harrenhal.

There must be another

I don't think Dany is one of the three heads as it is singular "dragon with three heads," not dragons. Rhaegar saying there must be a third may likely point to a third child by Rhaegar, Jon. That third child may be the dragon with three heads. That is not to say Dany won't have any role whatsoever, I think she will have an important role in both Essos and Westeros.

There's a problem here. If Dany isn't one of the heads of the dragon then why did the undying tell her that she is the child of three and afterwards connected it to the three heads? It doesn't make sense for that to refer to Jon, because all the visions in the audience chamber had something to do with Dany.

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To add to the Bran/BR parallels to the Undying:


When they reached the door a tall oval mouth, set in a wall fashioned in the likeness of a human face

The door Bran went through at the Nightfort was also fashioned in the likeness of a human face.

The Undying get their strength from the shade of the evening form blue trees while BR gets it from the weirwoods giving them both extended lifespans. The HotU is serviced by tiny dwarfs while BR is serviced by the CotF. The HotU is full of doors that can lead one astray as can the CotF cave with all the winding cave passages.


There's a problem here. If Dany isn't one of the heads of the dragon then why did the undying tell her that she is the child of three and afterwards connected it to the three heads? It doesn't make sense for that to refer to Jon, because all the visions in the audience chamber had something to do with Dany.

One might as well ask what did the dwarves with Westeros have to do with Dany as she will meet none of the kings portrayed?

three heads has the dragon . . . the ghost chorus yammered inside her skull with never a lip moving, never a breath stirring the still blue air

Jon's direwolf is Ghost, and Jon's references are with blue many times. It does make sense to refer to Jon, as the Undying have made references to him at least thrice. Jon is her only living relative, and she likely has an important role to play in his story just as Tyrion does in hers. The child of three refers to things for Dany coming in threes. Threes refer to things happening to her or being performed by her, not her being one of the threes in any of the instances.

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I agree that the prophecies and the visions Dany was later showed are the same. We can also conclude that if Dany knew a person or heard a familiar name in the visions, she would have recognized that and it would have been noted clearly (like she named Viserys). I think these visions somehow give us important plot points in Dany’s arc.





The Visions




The skulls of dead dragons looked down from its walls. Upon a towering barbed throne sat an old man in rich robes, an old man with dark eyes and long silver-grey hair. “Let him be king over charred bones and cooked meat,” he said to a man below him. “Let him be the king of ashes.” Drogon shrieked , his claws digging through silk and skin, but the king on his throne never heard, and Dany moved on.”



Here we see King Aerys (Dany’s father) in King’s Landing, the war has been lost and it looks like he is plotting to blow up King’s Landing. I think the “he” King Aerys is speaking of is Robert.





What might be the reason why Dany was shown her father’s wildfire plot? I think that is simply because that plan will be reactivated by the Mad Queen (Cersei). Although Dany will win the Dance, she will not be able to sit on his father’s throne because the KL will be burned by then. We all know that TV show is no canon but we also know that these guys know the major events yet to come. I am sure they asked GRRM “Who will sit on the iron throne at the end?” and he answered “What iron throne?” In the TV show, Dany walks alone in the scorched throne room where the roof is partially collapsed and snow is falling down.





"… three fires must you light … one for life and one for death and one to love …


… three mounts must you ride … one to bed and one to dread and one to love … three treasons will you know … once for blood and once for gold and once for love…”



Some of these I believe have come to pass, some I don’t believe we have seen yet. They are all on whole quite vague.



Fires: The fire for life I believe was the lighting of the pyre where the dragons were born. For death, I’m unsure if we have already seen this one come to pass, however, it could be the sacking of Astapor although I’m unsure of that. The fire to love seems to indicate that it my be a fire that will guide her to love.



Mounts: These can either be literal or metaphorical, I’m not sure we can tell either way. If they are literal mounts, then the first one was her silver who she rode to her wedding consummation, The second one was Drogon who is often compared to Balerion the Black Dread. I don’t think we know what / who the third mount will be although I’m include to believe it’s Ghost. Her silver (gray), Drogon (black) and Ghost (white).



Treasons: The treason for blood I believe it was Mirri, whether you believe Mirri was justified in her revenge, Dany felt breathed. As for the other two treasons I’m not sure we have seen either of them happen. Dany herself speculated it might have been Jorah who betrayed her for gold, but Jorah didn’t betray her for gold, he did it for a pardon.







Prophecy 1: three fires must you light... one for life and one for death and one to love...


Prophecy 2: three mounts must you ride... one to bed and one to dread and one to love...


Prophecy 3: three treasons will you know... once for blood and once for gold and once for love...



Fire 1: Viserys screamed as the molten gold ran down his cheeks and filled his mouth.


Fire 2: A tall lord with copper skin and silver-gold hair stood beneath the banner of a fiery stallion, a burning city behind him.


Fire 3: Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a woman’s name.


... mother of dragons, daughter of death...



Mount 1: Glowing like sunset, a red sword was raised in the hand of a blue-eyed king who cast no shadow.


Mount 2: A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd.


Mount 3: From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire.


... mother of dragons, slayer of lies...



Treason 1: Her silver was trotting through the grass, to a darkling stream beneath a sea of stars.


Treason 2: A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly.


Treason 3: A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness.


... mother of dragons, bride of fire...



I think it is better to tag these visions and prophecies like this.



As the daughter of death, Dany will light three fires (for life, for death and to love).


As the slayer of lies, Dany will slay three lies by mounting three mounts (to bed, to dread and to love).


As the bride of fire, Dany will know three treasons (for blood, for gold and for love).






"A white lion ran through grass taller than a man."



Some think this might be representing a Lanister, although, it could be a representation of the lion Drogo hunts for Dany.





I think the tall grasses were meant to point that the white lion is a dwarf, Tyrion Lannister. I think these last three visions (I will refer to them as the white lion, dosh khaleen, Mhysa) represent some of Dany’s battles.



We know Mhysa is for the taking of Yunkai. Dosh khaleen denotes the prophecy of the Stallion by which Dany will unite a great khalassar. And the white lion (Tyrion) is for the sacking of Volantis, which I feel very confident lately and mean to make a thread on this when I have the chance.



Tyrion understood that quick enough. Alone amongst the major river towns, Selhorys stood upon the eastern bank of the Rhoyne, making it much more vulnerable to the horselords than its sister towns across the river. Even so, it is a small prize. If I were khal, I would feint at Selhorys, let the Volantenes rush to defend it, then swing south and ride hard for Volantis itself.



“Do you take me for a Dothraki?” Tyrion asked sourly. The Dothraki ate horse, in truth; they also left deformed children out for the feral dogs who ran behind their khalasars. Dothraki customs had scant appeal for him.




The gods did not fashion me to wield a sword, he [Tyrion] thought, so why do they keep putting me in the midst of battles?




I think Tyrion will apply this strategy and ride with Dany’s khalassar to Volantis. I admit it will be funny as hell. Tyrion says he is not fashioned to wield a sword. Maybe they will give him an axe or an arakh.


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Good job, Maester of Ice and Fire

1. There must be another

I don't think Dany is one of the three heads as it is singular "dragon with three heads," not dragons. Rhaegar saying there must be a third may likely point to a third child by Rhaegar, Jon. That third child may be the dragon with three heads. That is not to say Dany won't have any role whatsoever, I think she will have an important role in both Essos and Westeros.

Everything that Dany saw in the HOTU relates to her somehow. When they called Dany the child of three she asked for clarification and then they tell her the dragon as three heads. This is a clear implication that she is involved in somehow in that trio. Having the dragon be singular means very little, it can easily be the embodiment of an idea or a group which is brought together as one entity. We know from GRRM himself that the story is not about any one character and I highly doubt that Jon will be the embodiment of the dragon, when symbolism is so much more related to Dany. She is after all the last dragon.

One might as well ask what did the dwarves with Westeros have to do with Dany as she will meet none of the kings portrayed?

three heads has the dragon . . . the ghost chorus yammered inside her skull with never a lip moving, never a breath stirring the still blue air

Jon's direwolf is Ghost, and Jon's references are with blue many times. It does make sense to refer to Jon, as the Undying have made references to him at least thrice. Jon is her only living relative, and she likely has an important role to play in his story just as Tyrion does in hers. The child of three refers to things for Dany coming in threes. Threes refer to things happening to her or being performed by her, not her being one of the threes in any of the instances.

The dwarfs have everything to do with Dany. As I noted in my summary Dany had just tried to garner support from the Pureborn and Xaro to invade Westeros, this was very much on her mind. The dwarfs / kings are shown savaging the land that Dany wants to rule one day. In fact the destruction Dany will encounter when she finally arrives in Westeros will be a direct consequence of these men.

Treasons

As for the treasons, I think the one for gold is Brown Ben Plumm, possibly if he defects to Aegon and the Golden Company. The one for blood may have been MMD, but I think the prophecies of mounts could refer to the future, after Dany's encounter with the Undying. I think the treason for love will be Tyrion freeing Jaime, and helping him escape after Jaime is captured in battle by Dany's forces.

We see visions of the past intertwined with visions of the future, and the Undying tell her that's what she'll see. To me the treason for blood was almost certainly MMD.

I think the third does point to Jon. The third visions always has something to do with Jon, Rhaegar dying on the Trident saying Lyanna's name in the first, and the blue flower growing the Wall, a hint to R+L in the third. Apple did a thread on it. The last lie Dany will slay may be the lie of Jon's identity, being Ned's bastard, or the public unveiling of R+L=J. Stones are associated with hiding things throughout the series like Sansa's alias "Alayne Stone," Rickon hiding on Skagos which means "stone" in the Old Tongue, and Arya hiding Needle under a stone at the HoBW. Dragons are associated with Targaryens in visions, and a stone dragon could be a hidden Targaryen. There is foreshadowing in her last POV in ADwD that supports this interpretation, but I don't want to mention it until that chapter comes up so as not to get ahead. I don't think it necessarily has to be someone's fall from grace for it to be a lie to slay. The other two I agree with.

I don't think "filled the air with sweetness" will be good for Dany given the negative connotations with "sweet."

I participated in the thread (about stone) and thought about, however, after working through it I dismissed the idea. The slayer of lies doesn't really match with what Jon needs. Jon doesn't need someone to slay the lie, he needs someone to reveal the truth.

As for the sweetness theory, I made my opinion quite clear in the thread. I give that theory no merit, however, it you want to believe it by all means go for it, I choose not to.

I agree that the prophecies and the visions Dany was later showed are the same. We can also conclude that if Dany knew a person or heard a familiar name in the visions, she would have recognized that and it would have been noted clearly (like she named Viserys). I think these visions somehow give us important plot points in Dany’s arc.

What might be the reason why Dany was shown her father’s wildfire plot? I think that is simply because that plan will be reactivated by the Mad Queen (Cersei). Although Dany will win the Dance, she will not be able to sit on his father’s throne because the KL will be burned by then. We all know that TV show is no canon but we also know that these guys know the major events yet to come. I am sure they asked GRRM “Who will sit on the iron throne at the end?” and he answered “What iron throne?” In the TV show, Dany walks alone in the scorched throne room where the roof is partially collapsed and snow is falling down.

That has been my suspicion that Cersei will be the one to burn down KL. I also think that the devastation will be much greater than even she expects as there are many caches of WF throughout KL that have not been found.

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I haven't been active on the re-read for over a month. The entire month of March was a little too busy for me. Looks like I have a lot to catch up. :)

Daenerys IV - ACoK

The House of the Undying

snip

Excellent analysis as always, Maester. :) Indeed one of the best chapters in the series, it always gives me goosebumps when I read it.

  • “Some places even a khal must walk alone,” - Yes, Daenerys has finally started to see herself as a Khal, and rightly so. After the great Khalasar disbanded she was the one who lead her people through the red waste to safety.
  • Shade of the evening is made from blue leaves as weirwood paste is made with red leaves of a weirwood. That is a clear enough symmetry there.

  • I too am not entirely sure of the purpose why the warlocks might've invited Dany to the HotU. Were they trying to kill her, to use her life force as some sacrifice to reclaim their former glory, or were they trying to induct her into her order we'll never know. I am not sure if they were entirely lying during the conversation at any time, so if they truly did send the comet it is a pretty big deal, and this was meant for us to conclude that they do command substantial power - watch out for what Euron might do now :P

  • Also Drogon's capability of sensing danger is remarkably similar to direwolves being distrustful towards some people they deem harful for their masters

I think the whole journey through the House of the Undying works as an elaboration on her initial dragon transformation dream which may well be a synopsis of her whole arc. I imagine that makes the order of the visions here of far greater importance. I still see overtones of Dany eventually choosing mud over fire and a certain personal happiness after long struggling to provide for others. What is curious to me is that I come to very different conclusions about these visions if I start from the premise of a Dany returning to Westeros to conquer than I do if I start with the House with the Red Door as the metaphorical premise.

Good post Ragnorak. I believe to draw conclusions from these visions we must start from the premise of Dany as a conqueror, for as per her final chapter in Dance, she is done choosing mud over fire. The whole arc of her in Meereen is set to deconstruct her notion that her role is of a peacemaker, as Martin constantly keeps on using phrases like olives are not grown in a matter of few years.

Mounts

As for the mounts, I think they are lovers/consorts. The mount to bed is Daario, the mount to dread is Hizdahr whose marriage she dreaded, and the mount to love may be her last husband. I won't mention his name for fear you might send an FM after me.

This is the reason I am not entirely convinced of mounts = lovers theory, as there are more to fit in than three. Drogo, Daario, Hizdahr and then the next one. If it is indeed lovers, we should discount Hizdahr, Dany never truly 'mounted' him. Then it is Drogo to dread and Daario to bed and Jon to love (I hope Jon and not Tyrion :P )


What might be the reason why Dany was shown her father’s wildfire plot? I think that is simply because that plan will be reactivated by the Mad Queen (Cersei). Although Dany will win the Dance, she will not be able to sit on his father’s throne because the KL will be burned by then. We all know that TV show is no canon but we also know that these guys know the major events yet to come. I am sure they asked GRRM “Who will sit on the iron throne at the end?” and he answered “What iron throne?” In the TV show, Dany walks alone in the scorched throne room where the roof is partially collapsed and snow is falling down.

Prophecy 1: three fires must you light... one for life and one for death and one to love...

Prophecy 2: three mounts must you ride... one to bed and one to dread and one to love...

Prophecy 3: three treasons will you know... once for blood and once for gold and once for love...

Fire 1: Viserys screamed as the molten gold ran down his cheeks and filled his mouth.

Fire 2: A tall lord with copper skin and silver-gold hair stood beneath the banner of a fiery stallion, a burning city behind him.

Fire 3: Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a woman’s name.

... mother of dragons, daughter of death...

Mount 1: Glowing like sunset, a red sword was raised in the hand of a blue-eyed king who cast no shadow.

Mount 2: A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd.

Mount 3: From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire.

... mother of dragons, slayer of lies...

Treason 1: Her silver was trotting through the grass, to a darkling stream beneath a sea of stars.

Treason 2: A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly.

Treason 3: A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness.

... mother of dragons, bride of fire...

I think it is better to tag these visions and prophecies like this.

As the daughter of death, Dany will light three fires (for life, for death and to love).

As the slayer of lies, Dany will slay three lies by mounting three mounts (to bed, to dread and to love).

As the bride of fire, Dany will know three treasons (for blood, for gold and for love).

Good post. Agreed on the Cersei point, that seems to be the reason for Martin to mention this at all. And I like your interpretation to the prophecies (you're Lamprey right? ) Although honestly this is the most debated topic on the forums and all interpretations have seemed likely to me at one point or the other.

I participated in the thread (about stone) and thought about, however, after working through it I dismissed the idea. The slayer of lies doesn't really match with what Jon needs. Jon doesn't need someone to slay the lie, he needs someone to reveal the truth.

I personally too don't subscribe to the theory. It is "Stone beast breathing shadow fire" , OP seems to suggest it is "Shadow beast breathing fire" as she associates shadow with Jon rather than Fire. But that is another thread.

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Very nice work. Quite the beastly chapter to have to tackle for analysis. Might be the worst one in the book actually, so again nicely done.

In the Jon reread someone pointed out the theme that the shortest path is not always the best (might have been in the Sam chapter fleeing Craster's.) He or she pointed to Brienne's path to get to the Quiet Isle as the best metaphorical example of this and we see it here too both in the proper entrance to the House of the Undying and the trip through the house as well.

Particularly on a first read, Dany is a huge tease to the seemingly central Iron Throne conflict back in Westeros. The scheming, the battles, the rising and falling political fortunes are all tainted by this young girl with dragons just waiting to step on to the stage. All of these visions really play up that expectation and there is a huge temptation to try and figure it all out. It is the lure of prophecy instilled into the reader-- not that we shouldn't bite.

Thank you - it was a monster of a chapter. :)

This very much applies to Dany's journey so far. I know that it annoys many people that it has taken Dany long to reach Westeros but I think it was important for her to learn the lessons she has learned so that she'd be better prepared when she landed there.

How much of this taking the Iron Throne dream is really Dany's dream and desire? Last chapter she tells Xaro that the Arbor makes the best wines. Is that her palate or Viserys talking? She thought of wanting to return to Vaes Tolloro and make it bloom but called it defeat to herself. Is it her defeat or Viserys? When Dany arrives in Meereen she chooses to do exactly that-- stop and try and make it bloom. I'm left wondering what Dany really wants for herself. There's the obvious house with the red door which is a metaphor for home, but Westeros is Ser Jorah's home, Viserys' home. Is it Dany's? She certainly thinks it is as of Dany IV ACoK.

I was discussing this with a friend recently and asked her if she thought Dany would die in the end. She told me that she saw two options for Dany, she'll either die or rule there was no middle ground for her. I don't know how generous GRRM will be in the end but if Dany were to survive (I give her 50/50 chance) I'd like to think he'd allowed her to at least feel at home wherever she ended up. That in the end is what she truly desires.

I think the whole journey through the House of the Undying works as an elaboration on her initial dragon transformation dream which may well be a synopsis of her whole arc. I imagine that makes the order of the visions here of far greater importance. I still see overtones of Dany eventually choosing mud over fire and a certain personal happiness after long struggling to provide for others. What is curious to me is that I come to very different conclusions about these visions if I start from the premise of a Dany returning to Westeros to conquer than I do if I start with the House with the Red Door as the metaphorical premise.

Agreed, and would add to that what we saw in the first episode of this GoT season (I know the show is not canon). The blue rose curing fevers - she'll need something soothing like mud to bring down her fire her fever.

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I haven't been active on the re-read for over a month. The entire month of March was a little too busy for me. Looks like I have a lot to catch up. :)

Daenerys IV - ACoK

The House of the Undying

snip

Excellent analysis as always, Maester. :) Indeed one of the best chapters in the series, it always gives me goosebumps when I read it.

  • Some places even a khal must walk alone,” - Yes, Daenerys has finally started to see herself as a Khal, and rightly so. After the great Khalasar disbanded she was the one who lead her people through the red waste to safety.

  • Shade of the evening is made from blue leaves as weirwood paste is made with red leaves of a weirwood. That is a clear enough symmetry there.

  • I too am not entirely sure of the purpose why the warlocks might've invited Dany to the HotU. Were they trying to kill her, to use her life force as some sacrifice to reclaim their former glory, or were they trying to induct her into her order we'll never know. I am not sure if they were entirely lying during the conversation at any time, so if they truly did send the comet it is a pretty big deal, and this was meant for us to conclude that they do command substantial power - watch out for what Euron might do now :P

  • Also Drogon's capability of sensing danger is remarkably similar to direwolves being distrustful towards some people they deem harful for their masters

Thank you and you are very welcome. ;)

Regarding the Undying they say something else to Dany that I find quite curious. They tell her that they've been waiting for her for a thousand years, that's a long time.

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One might as well ask what did the dwarves with Westeros have to do with Dany as she will meet none of the kings portrayed?

three heads has the dragon . . . the ghost chorus yammered inside her skull with never a lip moving, never a breath stirring the still blue air

Jon's direwolf is Ghost, and Jon's references are with blue many times. It does make sense to refer to Jon, as the Undying have made references to him at least thrice. Jon is her only living relative, and she likely has an important role to play in his story just as Tyrion does in hers. The child of three refers to things for Dany coming in threes. Threes refer to things happening to her or being performed by her, not her being one of the threes in any of the instances.

I'm not speaking of the hallway with doors, I'm referring to the audience chamber of the undying, where everything they said was related to her.

Always up. Always the door to your right. Other doors may open to you. Within, you will see many things that disturb you. Visions of loveliness and visions of horror, wonders and terrors. Sights and sounds of days gone by and days to come and days that never were. Dwellers and servitors may speak to you as you go. Answer or ignore them as you choose, but enter no room until you reach the audience chamber.

“I have come for the gift of truth,” Dany said. “In the long hall, the things I saw . . . were they true visions, or lies? Past things, or things to come? What did they mean?”

Audience chamber:

A long stone table filled this room. Above it floated a human heart, swollen and blue with corruption, yet still alive. It beat, a deep ponderous throb of sound, and each pulse sent out a wash of indigo light. The figures around the table were no more than blue shadows.

And this is what they said:

. . . mother of dragons . . . child of three . . . “Three?” She did not understand. . . . three heads has the dragon . . . the ghost chorus yammered inside her skull with never a lip moving,

The undying made a connection between Dany being the child of three and the three heads of the dragons, if it was referring to Jon then what was the point of them making this connection?

ETA: The blue colour of the undying have nothing to do with what they were telling Dany. Skin colour doesn't change the meaning of what someone says. BY that thinking that means since they were blue everything they said in the HOTU has to be about Jon, so Jon is also mhysa?

I'd like to think he'd allowed her to at least feel at home wherever she ended up. That in the end is what she truly desires.

I agree, if she is to survive thats how it will end, I still think westeros is not her true home and it will end up being something different.

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I agree on alot of things here, especially on Dany and Westeros. Especially on the point of Viserys and Jorah.

I think deep down Dany doesn't want to be queen of westeros, its just a duty she has forced upon herself, her comments of Vaes tolloro and choice to stay in meereen as you said are very telling.

I agree and Dany gets a lot of flak from many readers, but the poor girl has the weight of an entire dynasty on her shoulders. She is constantly under the pressure of her Targaryen legacy, birthright and responsibility as the last remaining true Targaryen heir (even if we take Aegon as the real thing and not a pretender, Dany's not aware of his presence yet).

The vision of the RW she witnesses at the HotU always nags at me whenever I come across it. How does it pertain to Dany? Is it just a plot device used to foreshadow the actual event? If so, it seems rather unnecessary to be included within a vision the HotU decides to show her.

"A little girl ran barefoot toward a big house with a red door. "

For some reason, I envisioned that little girl to be Arya. In the Arya re-read threads, posters found quite a bit of Targaryen imagery in her POVs, which might possibly hint towards both Arya and Dany crossing paths in the future. Furthermore, I always believed that if it was herself Dany saw in the vision as a little girl, she would most likely recognize it. Instead, "a little girl" seems to indicate someone she does not yet recognize.

ETA: This is the first time I'm participating in an active re-read thread! Hopefully I'm not too late! :cheers:

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The undying made a connection between Dany being the child of three and the three heads of the dragons, if it was referring to Jon then what was the point of them making this connection?

I believe I already explained that in my previous post. After they mention "three heads has the dragon," three visions are presented referring to Jon. It wouldn't be the first time given the shadows in the tent with MMD Dany saw a large wolf and a man wreathed in flames, Ghost and the wighted Othor Jon threw burning drapes on. Clearly, Dany has a role to play in Jon's story, and likewise Jon plays an important role in hers, likely at the end.

ETA: The blue colour of the undying have nothing to do with what they were telling Dany. Skin colour doesn't change the meaning of what someone says. BY that thinking that means since they were blue everything they said in the HOTU has to be about Jon, so Jon is also mhysa?

That is the logical fallacy of composition/division, I believe, but I'll give you a pass. I am pointing the fact that blue was mentioned and ghost, the name of Jon's direwolf, in the same sentence as "three heads has the dragon." There is nothing in the mhysa vision to suggest Jon.

Everything that Dany saw in the HOTU relates to her somehow. When they called Dany the child of three she asked for clarification and then they tell her the dragon as three heads. This is a clear implication that she is involved in somehow in that trio. Having the dragon be singular means very little, it can easily be the embodiment of an idea or a group which is brought together as one entity. We know from GRRM himself that the story is not about any one character and I highly doubt that Jon will be the embodiment of the dragon, when symbolism is so much more related to Dany. She is after all the last dragon.

Except Dany isn't the last dragon. You are ignoring Jon. The more subtle clues point to him. The trio given her never include her. The dragon being singular doesn't mean little, as it can be a trinity, three aspects of the same being.

The dwarfs have everything to do with Dany. As I noted in my summary Dany had just tried to garner support from the Pureborn and Xaro to invade Westeros, this was very much on her mind. The dwarfs / kings are shown savaging the land that Dany wants to rule one day. In fact the destruction Dany will encounter when she finally arrives in Westeros will be a direct consequence of these men.

Except those dwarfs/kings have nothing to do with Dany, and never will, because they are all dead as of ADwD. The destruction they caused will have nothing to do with Dany.

I participated in the thread (about stone) and thought about, however, after working through it I dismissed the idea. The slayer of lies doesn't really match with what Jon needs. Jon doesn't need someone to slay the lie, he needs someone to reveal the truth.

As for the sweetness theory, I made my opinion quite clear in the thread. I give that theory no merit, however, it you want to believe it by all means go for it, I choose not to.

The slayer of lies does work for Jon, as king he could command Dany's forces to come to the Wall and fight the Others. How many people are going to believe Jon saying that he is Rhaegar and Lyanna's son? It is likely going to take an encounter with Dany, with a likely test, to prove his heritage. The theory has merit given the use of stone in ASIOAF and dragon in D&E. What alternative do you have to Jon? It can't be Stannis or Aegon, as they have already been mentioned.

I think the sweetness theory has plenty of merit with numerous examples.

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Thanks for bringing this quote, I never believed in the theory that is popular on the forum that the pyre incident was caused by a "botched spell" by MMD or that she was the main focal point in the whole incident or that it was just a fluke. This SSM clears that up.

I doubt it will dissuade proponents of that theory. The author's words regarding Dany, in the text or otherwise, are misrepresented as mere routine in many circles. Thankfully this re-read project hasn't had any of that. Thanks to all those who've kept it running smoothly.

For her to sacrifice her dragons would be like sacrificing a part of herself, it's a pretty big sacrafice. I'm not sure that's what the quote means. I think GRRM meant that magic (any kind) will not be a deux ex machina to fight the WfD. Magic, the direwolves, the dragons are mrarely tools, they cannot solve the problems. Frankly, I don't see why Dany would have to pay again for using something she already paid for.

If her dragons are merely tools that won't solve problems, then I agree with you. I was only speculating about what will happen if they are more than that, based on Martin's quote, but I don't know what he means either. He doesn't want magic to solve problems, yet he's created a world where it does. Maybe he has an extremely narrow definition of magic being a solution.

Reading the descriptions of the now decaying glory of the HOTU, I wonder if their fate was tied to that of the dragons / fire magic. If the dragons have been gone for 150 years that would explain the amount of decay we see in the HOTU. If the birth of the dragons then brought the magic back full force it would explain why they were so interested in Dany and her dragons.

Agree this is further indication that dragons are a boon to magical practitioners.

Thanks for tackling this chapter so well. I get overwhelmed just thinking about how to decipher all the prophecies. For now I'll just add that I don't think any of them refer to Hizdahr, as Dany wasn't married to him in an earlier draft of the Daznak's Pit chapter. I suspect Martin was previously going to have Dany marry Euron. Quaithe's "Kraken and Dark Flame" warning was "Crow and Kraken" in a previous draft.

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