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Syrio Forel is not dead.


Hypnomagica

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The app gives no place of death for him. He has been mentioned in Cersei's POV and is never referred as such, his head was not mentioned as being on the spikes, where it certainly should have been.

So, what became of him?

Did he somehow escape? If so, why would he not go find Arrya?

My theory?

Petyr Motherfucking Baelish.

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Your evidence?

He went toe to toe with a knight in full plate armour while armed with a stick. He's dead.

Also, the way this normally works is with you giving evidence first.

When you say "this" what do you mean? I haven't read any other threads about this, is it a popular theory that Baelish has something to do with Syrio Forel?

I haven't heard the Littlefinger idea before, but the idea that Syrio survived pops up every now and then.
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Your evidence?

"Look with your eyes, he had said. She saw: the knight in his pale armor head to foot, legs, throat, and hands sheathed in metal, eyes hidden behind his high white helm, and in his hand cruel steel. Against that: Syrio, in a leather vest, with a wooden sword in his hand. “Syrio, run,” she screamed.

“The first sword of Braavos does not run,” he sang as Ser Meryn slashed at him."

I think that about says it.

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No, but "Syrio is not dead" posts crop up about once every two weeks or so. Who people think he is varies wildly though. The most common seems to be Jaquen.

Oh, and he's dead.

Yeah, I definitely don't think he's Jaquen.

Personally, I've always thought he was probably at least familiar with Baelish. He came under Eddard Stark's service due to his "excellent reputation", but who told him of this reputation? Braavosi style swordsmanship is not in particularly high demand in Westeros so how would Lord Stark have come to hear of him?

Well, Baelish's grandfather was a Braavosi sellsword and I don't think it would be that far fetched to believe that the Baelishes would still have contacts in Braavos.

Also, there is no evidence to support the hypothesis of his death and some to support the hypothesis that he is alive so I tend to believe that he is more likely to be alive.

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He went toe to toe with a knight in full plate armour while armed with a stick. He's dead.

Also, the way this normally works is with you giving evidence first.

I haven't heard the Littlefinger idea before, but the idea that Syrio survived pops up every now and then.

I presented my evidence in my opening summary as succinctly as I could manage. I will admit that it is hardly concrete evidence but some evidence is better than zero.

"Look with your eyes, he had said. She saw: the knight in his pale armor head to foot, legs, throat, and hands sheathed in metal, eyes hidden behind his high white helm, and in his hand cruel steel. Against that: Syrio, in a leather vest, with a wooden sword in his hand. “Syrio, run,” she screamed.

“The first sword of Braavos does not run,” he sang as Ser Meryn slashed at him."

I think that about says it.

I will agree that the situation was clearly set up to look hopeless but there is a clear line between a hopeless cliffhanger and actual death. Especially when it comes to the writing of GRRM.

I mean evidence pointing to his actually being dead after the fact.

Not evidence which might make you suspect that he would die.

At the point of Arya's exit, he is basically in a Schrodinger's cat point of existence.

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I think you pointed out correctly that there isn't any textual evidence that Syrio is dead, which is strange for a writer like Martin.

On the other hand there is no concrete evidence for him being alive either.

Based on the circumstantial evidence I think it's fair to say he's dead but there is a chance he lives.

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At the point of Arya's exit, he is basically in a Schrodinger's cat point of existence.

To which I will simply respond from the SSM: "Someone asked if Syrio was dead. And he said to "draw your own conclusions" based on the fact that his sword was broken, etc, which I took to mean yes."

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I presented my evidence in my opening summary as succinctly as I could manage. I will admit that it is hardly concrete evidence but some evidence is better than zero.

So your "evidence" is Sansa not noticing his head and Cersei thinking about him one time?

Would you care to explain how you think he escaped from Meryn?

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I think you pointed out correctly that there isn't any textual evidence that Syrio is dead, which is strange for a writer like Martin.

On the other hand there is no concrete evidence for him being alive either.

Based on the circumstantial evidence I think it's fair to say he's dead but there is a chance he lives.

Evidence that he is dead:

He was least seen by a POV character in immediately mortal peril with little hope of victory and a stated refusal to escape.

Evidence that he is alive:

The official app does not give any mention of his 'place of death' which was even provided in the case of Jon Snow, who many believe is either still alive or might well return to the world of the living.

His head is not mentioned as being among those placed on the spikes when shown to Sansa.

Cersei thinks of him but makes no mention of his death.

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I presented my evidence in my opening summary as succinctly as I could manage. I will admit that it is hardly concrete evidence but some evidence is better than zero.

I will agree that the situation was clearly set up to look hopeless but there is a clear line between a hopeless cliffhanger and actual death. Especially when it comes to the writing of GRRM.

I mean evidence pointing to his actually being dead after the fact.

Not evidence which might make you suspect that he would die.

At the point of Arya's exit, he is basically in a Schrodinger's cat point of existence.

You are right that there is a slight chance that he might have survived but it is highly unlikely. The reason why we didn't see his death off-screen was because Arya had to be out of the room for it to be realistic that she managed to escape (otherwise Syrio's sacrifice would be pointless). I don't find it weird that we don't hear about his death or what happened to him after he died because he was completely unimportant to any of the Lannisters. And they had other things to worry about (Arya's escape). I think it'd be more likely that we would hear about him if he indeed managed to get away. Cersei would probably think that he has (or know about whereabouts of) Arya and would want him found.

Anyway, IMO the strongest argument against "Syrio being alive" is that there is very little plot reason for him to be alive. He was an amazing character and taught Arya so many things, that helped her survive the Riverlands, but his story is done. He lives on within Arya.

Edit: typos

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The official app does not give any mention of his 'place of death' which was even provided in the case of Jon Snow, who many believe is either still alive or might well return to the world of the living.

Could it not simply be that the people who make said app are not infallible and have simply overlooked this, due to him being a fairly minor character (unlike Jon Snow) ?

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Why would anyone mention his head on the spikes?

He was no one to Sansa or anyone else left in King's Landing.

Well, he was Arya's dance instructor, given how much time Arya liked to spend with her, I think it is reasonable to suspect Sansa might have noticed him. If only in so much as it might have reminded her of her sister.

So your "evidence" is Sansa not noticing his head and Cersei thinking about him one time?

Would you care to explain how you think he escaped from Meryn?

Well, I think my strongest point of evidence is that the app gives him no "Place of Death"

Which, after a second look, it turns out I was wrong about. Which actually gets rid of most of my argument.

Perhaps he actually is dead.

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