Four Reasons why Roose Bolton is better than Daenerys

[JonisHenryTudor]

A fascinating example of how one sentence can have completely contradictory meanings.

Nonetheless, I think we are meant to read it as meaning that she found Viserys' death so upsetting that she hasn't been able to laugh or smile subsequently. The grief and guilt which she feels in subsequent books suggests that must be so.

True.

But

"Turn away, my princess, I beg you." - Jorah

"No" - Dany

And the last few lines.

He was no dragon, Dany thought, curiously calm. Fire cannot kill a dragon.

She isn't terribly concerned; and for an author who can tell you how moldy a potato is in flee bottom, this scene is strangely emotionless. If that were my brother, I might be more concerned with something other than fire and dragons.

BUT, and there is a but. I may not like her character, but this is one point where I can sympathize with her. Why should she care? Her brother abused her mentally and physically, while at the same time sold her off to a man she did not want to marry.

Let's not forget this:

He smiled at her. "I'd let his whole Khalasar fuck you if need be, sweet sister, all forty thousand men, and their horses too if that was what it took to get my army."

Out of all the things I dislike her for, this is not one of them. Her brother didn't deserve an ounce of sympathy from her

[Kyoshi]

...She isn't terribly concerned; and for an author who can tell you how moldy a potato is in flee bottom, this scene is strangely emotionless. If that were my brother, I might be more concerned with something other than fire and dragons.

BUT, and there is a but. I may not like her character, but this is one point where I can sympathize with her. Why should she care? Her brother abused her mentally and physically, while at the same time sold her off to a man she did not want to marry.

Let's not forget this:

He smiled at her. "I'd let his whole Khalasar fuck you if need be, sweet sister, all forty thousand men, and their horses too if that was what it took to get my army."

Out of all the things I dislike her for, this is not one of them. Her brother didn't deserve an ounce of sympathy from her

With regard to the part I bolded, this comes to mind:

Maia, on 29 Jul 2014 - 8:42 PM, said:

I find that this is a tack that GRRM is prone to take with female characters - Cat's PoV also suffered from it, as does Cersei's and others, though to lesser degree. Whereas male characters' PoVs almost always have exhaustive explanations/rationalizations for their actions, so that they seem much more logical and thought-through, even in cases where a bit of critical thought reveals problems with their decisions. For instance, Tyrion is a smart character, but he makes some very dumb decisions occasionally (see above, making Pycelle his enemy, etc), and PoV magic makes us gloss over them.

Ditto Jaime in AFFC/ADwD - paralleled with Cersei as he is, he cuts a much better figure than her... But are his decisions actually all that better? Not really, IMHO.

[LordStoneheart]

Jonis, at that moment she realizes his life is forfeit and true, she has a right to be resentful. But you are still making the mistake many Danyhaters make when it comes to this topic. You're not quoting the fact that she tries to stop him just lines before and you're not quoting her next chapter and that fact that she is mourning him.

[SeanF]

True.

But

"Turn away, my princess, I beg you." - Jorah

"No" - Dany

And the last few lines.

He was no dragon, Dany thought, curiously calm. Fire cannot kill a dragon.

She isn't terribly concerned; and for an author who can tell you how moldy a potato is in flee bottom, this scene is strangely emotionless. If that were my brother, I might be more concerned with something other than fire and dragons.

BUT, and there is a but. I may not like her character, but this is one point where I can sympathize with her. Why should she care? Her brother abused her mentally and physically, while at the same time sold her off to a man she did not want to marry.

Let's not forget this:

He smiled at her. "I'd let his whole Khalasar fuck you if need be, sweet sister, all forty thousand men, and their horses too if that was what it took to get my army."

Out of all the things I dislike her for, this is not one of them. Her brother didn't deserve an ounce of sympathy from her

It's a scene I've read over and over again. She is strangely emotionless. One might have expected her either to be furious at Viserys' threat; or crying out in horror at his death.

But, I think she was in that type of state of shock where one's mind just goes blank. She ran out of ways of trying to save Viserys from himself.

[JonisHenryTudor]

Jonis, at that moment she realizes his life is forfeit and true, she has a right to be resentful. But you are still making the mistake many Danyhaters make when it comes to this topic. You're not quoting the fact that she tries to stop him just lines before and you're not quoting her next chapter and that fact that she is mourning him.

No doubt that she is. I was just pointing out that in that particular scene she was emotionless. In most cases, that is not normal even if the realization sets in that what is done, is done. But I am not criticizing her for it. If she came off as cold or apathetic, that shouldn't be too surprising considering her history.

But there is also something to consider. He was, in fact, her brother regardless of his asinine world view. The emotional fallout in the days after his death would be expected. She grew up with Visereys and he was all she knew and had. The realization that she was now alone in the world without her brother probably contributed more to her morning process then actually sympathy. It is somewhat similar to people who suffer through a break-up or divorce to someone they were with for several years. Despite knowing it is right for them, or that they are free, the time spent holds a place in their heart, which can manifest itself in a morning process.

[SeanF]

No doubt that she is. I was just pointing out that in that particular scene she was emotionless. In most cases, that is not normal even if the realization sets in that what is done, is done. But I am not criticizing her for it. If she came off as cold or apathetic, that shouldn't be too surprising considering her history.

But there is also something to consider. He was, in fact, her brother regardless of his asinine world view. The emotional fallout in the days after his death would be expected. She grew up with Visereys and he was all she knew and had. The realization that she was now alone in the world without her brother probably contributed more to her morning process then actually sympathy. It is somewhat similar to people who suffer through a break-up or divorce to someone they were with for several years. Despite knowing it is right for them, or that they are free, the time spent holds a place in their heart, which can manifest itself in a morning process.

Dany was physically, emotionally, and perhaps sexually, abused by her brother for years. But, it's not at all unusual for such people do still love the person who's so abused them, and to grieve for them.

[Bog Devil of Greywater]

Roose is getting far too much credit in this thread for driving the Ironborn out of the North.

The Boltons cleared out a skeleton crew at both Winterfell and Moat Cailin. But were otherwise still under siege throughout the North until the Ironborn Kingsmoot was called.

The Damphair got the Ironborn out of the North, and Euron sent them elsewhere.

[fuem]

Sorta a mass effect Thing going on Between him and Stannis

Roose Bolton is just such well a Bolton and i can't hate him for it

[Danelle]

In the OP it isn't mentioned that Roose has a better sense of fashion than Dany.

Roose wears black and pink, which is an elegant combiantion of colours and also a reference to his house.

Daenerys has yet to develop a sense of fashion. At first she was wearing dothraki vests, then the dresses from Qarth that exposed her breast and finally the tokars, which are very uncomfortable.

I cannot imagine Roose following the fashion from Qarth, running aroung wearing dothraki vests or discussing battle plans while wearing a tokar.

Clearly Dany needs to be taughts a few things about fashion, from the most well dressed man in Westeros.

[OldGimletEye]

Hyperventilating here, some body hand me a paper bag, because I am about to defend Dany. No, I don't think Dany is worse than Roose Bolton, not truly. The problem with Dany is that she means well, but often screws up. And, I don't think she has a very sophisticated view of the world. Combine that with her power and that is what makes her dangerous. Roose, in my view, is just utterly ruthless. He knows exactly what he is doing, where Dany doesn't.

I'll hold out some small hope that Dany will get her act together. As much as she often aggravates me, I am still willing to give her chance, depending on what she does in the next two books.

[Kyoshi]

In the OP it isn't mentioned that Roose has a better sense of fashion than Dany.

Roose wears black and pink, which is an elegant combiantion of colours and also a reference to his house.

Daenerys has yet to develop a sense of fashion. At first she was wearing dothraki vests, then the dresses from Qarth that exposed her breast and finally the tokars, which are very uncomfortable.

I cannot imagine Roose following the fashion from Qarth, running aroung wearing dothraki vests or discussing battle plans while wearing a tokar.

Clearly Dany needs to be taughts a few things about fashion, from the most well dressed man in Westeros.

:lmao:

[Nictarion]

She ran out of ways of trying to save Viserys from himself.

Exactly. She even offered him the dragons eggs, and that wasn't even enough to satisfy him. He was in full on self destruct mode.

[HexMachina]

Hyperventilating here, some body hand me a paper bag, because I am about to defend Dany. No, I don't think Dany is worse than Roose Bolton, not truly. The problem with Dany is that she means well, but often screws up. And, I don't think she has a very sophisticated view of the world. Combine that with her power and that is what makes her dangerous. Roose, in my view, is just utterly ruthless. He knows exactly what he is doing, where Dany doesn't.

I'll hold out some small hope that Dany will get her act together. As much as she often aggravates me, I am still willing to give her chance, depending on what she does in the next two books.

*pats on back* There there, the first step is always the hardest. Would you like to lie down till you recover?

:p

[OldGimletEye]

*pats on back* There there, the first step is always the hardest. Would you like to lie down till you recover?

:P

Yeah, I think I might because I might have to pop a few Valium.

[MandrakeWench]

If I had a brother who treated me the way Dany was treated, I'd laugh as he died too.

He told her he would have her raped by all the men of the khal, ad their horses, as necessary to get what he wanted. I have no sorrow over his death, and I'm not even a Dany fan.

[MandrakeWench]

Upon consideration of Dany vs Roose, however, I think Dany is a better villain. Roose is a straightforward kinda villain. Whereas Dany is the kind who starts out Trying To Help... That's the best kind of villain.

Who is "better"; well it depends on how you define "better" I'd rather have a beer with Roose. Dany has a stick up her ass.

[JonisHenryTudor]

Upon consideration of Dany vs Roose, however, I think Dany is a better villain. Roose is a straightforward kinda villain. Whereas Dany is the kind who starts out Trying To Help... That's the best kind of villain.

Who is "better"; well it depends on how you define "better" I'd rather have a beer with Roose. Dany has a stick up her ass.

Hahaha sorry I am just laughing at the visual of sitting there in a pub having a pint with Roose. The discussion would be an amazing combination of his sociopathic facial expressions and bone chilling whispers.

[JonisHenryTudor]

Dany was physically, emotionally, and perhaps sexually, abused by her brother for years. But, it's not at all unusual for such people do still love the person who's so abused them, and to grieve for them.

Yes which is why I said it is sort of an emotional fallout. I am close with someone who went through something just as horrible if not worst. Most of this person's mourning is related to questioning what it could have been, not what happened and by whom. Otherwise, the person I know is generally apathetic about the entire situation.

This is also why I said that this is one of the few things I can argue for her. If anything, it might be best to describe the whole event as her having mixed emotions. Sad because it was her brother, but apathetic because of what he did. You can see both sides in the text.

[El Guapo]

Roose eats his vegetables.

Dany suffocates hers.

:rofl:

[Berric_Dondiedagain]

you are comparing a grown, calculating man- with a young girl who had nobody to raise her- is running for her life- and is treated like crap by everyone- until she gets dragons