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who tried to kill Bran?


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Not wanting to derail Jaime and the White Book thread, I'll start this one.



In that thread, answering somebody about the attempt on Bran's life, I said that Littlefinger wasn't at Winterfell and if Jaime didn't hire the assassin then it would either be Joffrey or Cersei and Cersei wasn't in psycho mode that early in the story.



RMMormant posted a link, saying Mance Rayder did it.



http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1uvltu/spoilers_all_who_really_sent_the _catspaw/



He said he didn't believe it, and neither do I.



If Mance wanted to kill a Stark to destabalise the North, he would have killed Robb.



If Robb was dead, Eddard going south, Bran in a coma (and crippled besides) then the Stark in Winterfell would be Rickon.



In effect, Maester Luwin and Ser Rodrik Cassal would be guiding Rickon (Catelyn would still be holding Bran's hand at this point, if Robb's death hadn't shattered her). Would the North back them the way they would Eddard? The Boltons, at least, would not.



I think Joffrey did it.



Why didn't he try to get the credit for it?



The attempt didn't work. As simple as that.



And possibly, he reconsidered how Robert would react. I'm not sure he would have the courage to tell Robert what he had done.



So, thoughts?


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[Did Littlefinger influence Joffrey to try and kill Bran?]

Well, Littlefinger did have a certain hidden inflouence over Joff... but he was not at Winterfell, and that needs to be remembered.

This isn't what I was talking about but I can't find the one I do want. This implies to me that LF influenced Joff to have Ned killed, but not Bran.

To shamelessly quote myself :p

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It is pretty implicit in the books that Joffrey did it because he overheard Robert saying something to the effect of "they should just put him down out of mercy."




He of course did not want to take any credit for it because it was a sloppy and failed attempt anyway.


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This has been discussed deeply but not recently. Of likely characters the best case can be made for Joffrey. He's trying to impress Robert and overhears Robert say that Bran would be better off dead, so....



Mance has no real motive for killing any Stark, and Bran isn't all that important a figure at that point anyhow.



Where it gets muddled is when Littlefinger sees the dagger and uses it as a tool to cause strife between the Starks and Lannsters.


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To be clear, I have no relationship to that link, I only went looking for it when I read the suggestion that someone other than Joffrey sent the assassin. It's interesting, and I guess you could make the argument that destabilizing the realm was a legit motive for Mance to do it, but ultimately that theory is not compelling to me in light of the substantial evidence that it was Joffrey.


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This has been discussed deeply but not recently. Of likely characters the best case can be made for Joffrey. He's trying to impress Robert and overhears Robert say that Bran would be better off dead, so....

Mance has no real motive for killing any Stark, and Bran isn't all that important a figure at that point anyhow.

Where it gets muddled is when Littlefinger sees the dagger and uses it as a tool to cause strife between the Starks and Lannsters.

It's supposedly confirmed in the app that it was Joff, though I don't have the app to verify.

It's also heavly implied that it was Joff, especially by an SSM after ACOK that stated we'd know who tried to kill Bran by the next book (ASOS).

I have the app and they do say it was Joff---something that Jaime and Tyrion both came to knowing.

To touch on the LF aspect of it though, we have to remember that he is a master of chaos. He resented the Starks and Lannisters, and knows that when there is chaos and war, if you can manage it, you can come out far greater than from where you were previously. LF obviously knew of the distrust between the Starks and Lannisters, as he and Lysa were the ones who poisoned Jon Arryn then blamed it on Cersei. The dagger gave him the means to "break the camels back" as it were, and from there he knew it was a matter of time before there was war.

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I still think it was LF. My flimsy reasoning is this:



In Catelyn Chapter IV they discuss how they found the assassin's hiding place in the stables and found some silver coins. Later when Catelyn is reminicing about LF she thinks about his love for all things silver. That word association just strikes me as too much of a coincidence. Flimsy I know.



Also there's just no evidence that Joffrey ever cared about Robert. Plus he has contempt for everything and everyone. He doesn't strike me as someone who would care about providing a "mercy" to a kid he barely knows in order to impress his father.



Since there is no decent way to tell how much time passed from when Bran fell to the assassination attempt (that I'm aware of) he could have planned it to stir up trouble, including providing the dagger that would implicate Tyrion.


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Joffery is stated to almost idolise Robert and be desperate for approval or affection from him; most likely because Robert never offers him any love and is actually very resentful of him. In such a masculine world, a boy needs his fathers approval (or barring that a father substitute)

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I still think it was LF. My flimsy reasoning is this:

In Catelyn Chapter IV they discuss how they found the assassin's hiding place in the stables and found some silver coins. Later when Catelyn is reminicing about LF she thinks about his love for all things silver. That word association just strikes me as too much of a coincidence. Flimsy I know.

Also there's just no evidence that Joffrey ever cared about Robert. Plus he has contempt for everything and everyone. He doesn't strike me as someone who would care about providing a "mercy" to a kid he barely knows in order to impress his father.

Since there is no decent way to tell how much time passed from when Bran fell to the assassination attempt (that I'm aware of) he could have planned it to stir up trouble, including providing the dagger that would implicate Tyrion.

Attempt on Bran's life is executed too clumsy to be any of LF's doing - he would not, for one - armed a common murderer with Valyrian steel. Moreover, he was not in WF, and couldn't have known that opportunity to kill Bran will present itself. He couldn't have known Bran will be weakly guarded and comatose after first murder attempt. IMO, Littlefinger had nothing to do with killing Bran, he just improvised and used it to stir up trouble to further his own plans. He is a master player, after all.

OTOH, this attempted murder does reek of Joffrey. Besides giving Valyrian knife to common man, he does desperately wish for affection and recognition from his father. Remember how he cut open a pregnant cat to show Robert kittens, or how proudly he quoted Robert's "wisdom" to Tywin during family dinner.

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Joffrey.

I never liked this mystery. There were no clues and the reveal was sloppy. Kind of just resulted in everyone agreeing it was Joffrey and shrugging about it.

I think it was purposefully without clues. The whole point was that the reader was meant to think it was Cersei and/or Jaime the whole time, just for you to later find out that they had nothing to do with it.

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I think it was purposefully without clues. The whole point was that the reader was meant to think it was Cersei and/or Jaime the whole time, just for you to later find out that they had nothing to do with it.

It may be so, but I think most everyone had forgotten or.no longer cared by that point. It was a little like the "Who killed Jon Arryn?" mystery, only that one was actually hinted at before the reveal

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