Could Selmy leave Dany for Aegon?

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Firstly, Barry will need irrefutable evidence that Aegon is truly who he claims he is.

Then Dany will have to do something really stupid which leads Barry wanting to break his vows and switch sides. Perhaps this will be her last betrayal.

Barry could leave her when he finds out about his prince's son being alive. But even if he does leave Dany, I doubt he'll survive long enough to get there.

My guess is he'll advise Dany to join Aegon, she'll refuse saying the imposter must be killed, he'll leave, but Dany will burn him.

Sick, I know, but I wouldn't put it past Dany.

About the irrefutable evidence, Barristan knew Rhaegar and probably, baby Aegon. In our world is kind of hard to recognise a baby but this is GRRMverse, where all Baratheons have black hair and such. So, if Aegon is fake, I can see Barristan saying something like "he has nothing of his father's 'light'" or whatever Rhaegar had, somehow a parallel to a future encounter between Jon and whoever knew Rhaegar, dunno, Jaime saying "omg, those are Rhaegar's ears indeed!".

[Winds of Winter blow cold]

Since Septa Lemore is really his lost love Ashara Dayne...Sure! :P (Had to get that in there.)

[Scar The Martyr]

I doubt he'll abandon Dany at this point even IF he believes that Aegon is actually Aegon and not (f)Aegon, he's already sworn his oath, and I doubt he'll support the guy backed by pretty much only free companies and some merchants.(?) I don't know, I have been wrong before.

[Waylin Stark]

About the irrefutable evidence, Barristan knew Rhaegar and probably, baby Aegon. In our world is kind of hard to recognise a baby but this is GRRMverse, where all Baratheons have black hair and such. So, if Aegon is fake, I can see Barristan saying something like "he has nothing of his father's 'light'" or whatever Rhaegar had, somehow a parallel to a future encounter between Jon and whoever knew Rhaegar, dunno, Jaime saying "omg, those are Rhaegar's ears indeed!".

LOL, Rhaegar's ears :P

[JonCon's Red Beard]

LOL, Rhaegar's ears :P

Yeah, those ears got all the girls crazeh.

[Baelor Swyft]

I think Barristan seeks primarily to serve. He accepted King Robert's pardon and openly admits that he would have kept serving Joffrey if he had not been removed. I doubt Barristan is going to go to the trouble of jumping ship when he can still get what he wants by sticking with Dany and serving her. Like many characters in the series, he likes to think of himself as vaguely honorable to an extent, but in reality his motives are simply to get what he wants, and what he wants is to serve.

Besides, he's already chosen Dany as his new queen. He's failed so many kings already, I think to him it would be the utmost of dishonor to just abandon Dany. If he is an honorable man after all, I think the primary goal on his mind right now is to die before his Queen, which is the duty he's so often failed before.

[HexMachina]

IIRC Eddard never told Barristan about the Twincest. He considered how various SC members would react and suspected Barristan would tell him to do his duty

(This is in response to RR and Senor Tormenta - sorry for spelling if its wrong)

[Lost Melnibonean]

He still refers to Joffrey as Robert's son when speaking with Dany. As for Viserys, Barristan did not so much as abandon him as yield to the man that claimed the throne.

To say oaths mean nothing to him is an exaggeration. Of epic proportions.

I never gave this much thought but if Barristan believes Joffrey is Robert's son he must believe the Ned is a traitor, twice. So how come he holds the Ned in such high regard?

[Lost Melnibonean]

IIRC Eddard never told Barristan about the Twincest. He considered how various SC members would react and suspected Barristan would tell him to do his duty

(This is in response to RR and Senor Tormenta - sorry for spelling if its wrong)

He was present in the throneroom when the Ned...

"Would that I could," Ned said grimly. If she was so determined to force the issue here and now, she left him no choice. "Your son has no claim to the throne he sits. Lord Stannis is Robert's true heir."

"Liar!" Joffrey screamed, his face reddening.

"Mother, what does he mean?" Princess Myrcella asked the queen plaintively. "Isn't Joff the king now?"

"You condemn yourself with your own mouth, Lord Stark," said Cersei Lannister. "Ser Barristan, seize this traitor."

The Lord Commander of the Kingsguard hesitated. In the blink of an eye he was surrounded by Stark guardsmen, bare steel in their mailed fists.

"And now the treason moves from words to deeds," Cersei said. "Do you think Ser Barristan stands alone, my lord?" With an ominous rasp of metal on metal, the Hound drew his longsword. The knights of the Kingsguard and twenty Lannister guardsmen in crimson cloaks moved to support him.

"Kill him!" the boy king screamed down from the Iron Throne. "Kill all of them, I command it!"

"You leave me no choice," Ned told Cersei Lannister. He called out to Janos Slynt. "Commander, take the queen and her children into custody. Do them no harm, but escort them back to the royal apartments and keep them there, under guard."

"Men of the Watch!" Janos Slynt shouted, donning his helm. A hundred gold cloaks leveled their spears and closed.

"I want no bloodshed," Ned told the queen. "Tell your men to lay down their swords, and no one need"]

[HexMachina]

I stand partially corrected...although since Ned doesnt out and out state Joffrey is the product of twincest, I can imagine Barristan not quite catching on. He isnt always on the ball

[Señor de la Tormenta]

Barristan Selmy is not a sellsword whose contract has been broken. If Joffrey says he is no longer fit to serve as LC and asks him to retire in a castle with land he is giving him he should obbey. Not being LC doesnt invidate the oath he gave to Baratheon Royal Family when Robert pardoned him.

If the master of coin is removed, he still is a subject as any other Lord or Knight to the Royal Dinasty. Why it would be different for a gloryfied body guard?

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Barristan Selmy is not a sellsword whose contract has been broken. If Joffrey says he is no longer fit to serve as LC and asks him to retire in a castle with land he is giving him he should obbey. Not being LC doesnt invidate the oath he gave to Baratheon Royal Family when Robert pardoned him.

If the master of coin is removed, he still is a subject as any other Lord or Knight to the Royal Dinasty. Why it would be different for a gloryfied body guard?

:agree:

I'd really like to see somebody asking Barristan pointed question about his treason there and him abandoning his knightly vows fifteen years earlier.

[El Guapo]

Barristan Selmy is not a sellsword whose contract has been broken. If Joffrey says he is no longer fit to serve as LC and asks him to retire in a castle with land he is giving him he should obbey. Not being LC doesnt invidate the oath he gave to Baratheon Royal Family when Robert pardoned him.

If the master of coin is removed, he still is a subject as any other Lord or Knight to the Royal Dinasty. Why it would be different for a gloryfied body guard?

His oath as a KG member ended when Joffrey fired him. Period. He is no obligation whatsoever to the Baratheons any more in the capacity as a bodygurad. If anything you can call him a traitor to the realm since he is taken up arms for the exiled royal family. But that is a different argument.

[RoamingRonin]

I never gave this much thought but if Barristan believes Joffrey is Robert's son he must believe the Ned is a traitor, twice. So how come he holds the Ned in such high regard?

Despite fighting a rebellion and allegedly fathering a bastard, most people hold Ned in high regard. Don't be obtuse.

Barristan Selmy is not a sellsword whose contract has been broken. If Joffrey says he is no longer fit to serve as LC and asks him to retire in a castle with land he is giving him he should obbey. Not being LC doesnt invidate the oath he gave to Baratheon Royal Family when Robert pardoned him.

If the master of coin is removed, he still is a subject as any other Lord or Knight to the Royal Dinasty. Why it would be different for a gloryfied body guard?

You missed the part where he picked up arms and fought gold cloaks. The man became a rebel against King Joffrey. As I've said before, he stopped being Kingsguard when Joffrey dismissed him. He could not just saunter up to Stannis like, "Yo, I heard you were a King. I'm a Kingsguard. I'll need another white cloak."

He chose to go to Dany.

He was a legendary hero shamed and humiliated. I don't blame him for leaving Westeros before it became the mess it is now.

:agree:

I'd really like to see somebody asking Barristan pointed question about his treason there and him abandoning his knightly vows fifteen years earlier.

He does so in Storm of Swords:

(Lengthy)

"Why are you here?" Dany demanded of him. "If Robert sent you to kill me, why did you save my life?" He served the Usurper. He betrayed Rhaegar's memory, and abandoned Viserys to live and die in exile. Yet if he wanted me dead, he need only have stood aside . . . "I want the whole truth now, on your honor as a knight. Are you the Usurper's man, or mine?"

"Yours, if you will have me." Ser Barristan had tears in his eyes. "I took Robert's pardon, aye. I served him in Kingsguard and council. Served with the Kingslayer and others near as bad, who soiled the white cloak I wore. Nothing will excuse that. I might be serving in King's Landing still if the vile boy upon the Iron Throne had not cast me aside, it shames me to admit. But when he took the cloak that the White Bull had draped about my shoulders, and sent men to kill me that selfsame day, it was as though he'd ripped a caul off my eyes. That was when I knew I must find my true king, and die in his service—"

"I can grant that wish," Ser Jorah said darkly.

"Quiet," said Dany. "I'll hear him out."

"It may be that I must die a traitor's death," Ser Barristan said. "If so, I should not die alone. Before I took Robert's pardon I fought against him on the Trident. You were on the other side of that battle, Mormont, were you not?" He did not wait for an answer. "Your Grace, I am sorry I misled you. It was the only way to keep the Lannisters from learning that I had joined you. You are watched, as your brother was. Lord Varys reported every move Viserys made, for years. Whilst I sat on the small council, I heard a hundred such reports. And since the day you wed Khal Drogo, there has been an informer by your side selling your secrets, trading whispers to the Spider for gold and promises."

:dunno:

[Sword of the Morgan]

I think he is too loyal to do that.

[Chatty Duelist]

Think of it this way, if it becomes common knowledge that R+L=J, will Barristan rush across the Narrow Sea to serve Jon? I think not.

First they'll have to prove, secondly someone must believe it, which is highly unlikely.

[Ser Greg of House House]

Since Septa Lemore is really his lost love Ashara Dayne...Sure! :P (Had to get that in there.)

Three treasons... Once for love. I don't think she's Ashara Dayne. But it would fit beautifully, no one would expect Barristan to be the one to betray her for love.

[herr witz]

His oath as a KG member ended when Joffrey fired him. Period. He is no obligation whatsoever to the Baratheons any more in the capacity as a bodygurad. If anything you can call him a traitor to the realm since he is taken up arms for the exiled royal family. But that is a different argument.

Correct. He owes 'fealty' to the kingdom as a resident of said kingdom (before he left), but once Cersei had him retired so they could add the Hound he no longer was bound by any KG oath he gave to Robert Baratheon's reign.

[Roxy Carmichael]

I think Barry will be one of Dany's betrayers. However, since there is a small part of him that seems to view Dany as the daughter he and Ashara Dayne never had, I think It'll take something pretty significant for him to change course. I think Selmy would have to be convinced, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Aegon is real, and Dany would have to do something to really disenchant him on top of that.

The latter is totally possible, but the former would be pretty tough.

[Señor de la Tormenta]

His oath as a KG member ended when Joffrey fired him. Period. He is no obligation whatsoever to the Baratheons any more in the capacity as a bodygurad. If anything you can call him a traitor to the realm since he is taken up arms for the exiled royal family. But that is a different argument.

And so what? He still has an oath to the Baratheon line, the one he got when Robert pardoned him. Lord Commander is just a job, as Master of Coin, Whispers or Royal Cook. If his King thinks he is not fit for the Job, it doesnt change an inch the fact that he bent the knee to house Baratheon. When Tywin Lannister was no longer Aerys Hand it didnt mean he was no longer obligated to Targaryens as man and Lord. Barristan Selmy is a person, not a job. The person owes, not the job.

How were his is vowes ???? "I swear to protect House Baratheon, and aknolwdge them as rightful Kings and wont ever rise against them....As long as they let me keep my job as a gloryfied Body Guard?

Like it or not the man went against his oath two times. And tourned his back to two royal dinasties he bent the knee to.