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The source of all Sansa-hate


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#1 myhousigilisthehousecat

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 08:45 PM

So I've been noticing that Sansa seems gets a disproportionate amount of hate on these forums. We know that she's the worst person in westeros, but why?

 

My theory is that it's because she practically begs to be cast as a villain in the beginning. She's got so many teen-girl-villain stereotypes going for her:

 

-She's popular

-She's pretty

-She's ditzy (or at least lots of people in the red keep think so)

-She's boy-crazy

-She's a girly-girl

-She's snobbish

-She's being taught to lie and manipulate

-She's catty to her sister

-She's slightly delusional

 

As readers, we identify with Arya more in the beginning because she is funny, a little out of place and she feels oppressed by westerosi gender roles. Sansa is her opposite, she's got the girl-villain-stereotypes going for her, she's mean to her little sister, and she makes some questionable choices in the beginning, so she must be the villain with a capital V. It's hard to shake this perception, and some people never have. 

 

As a person who was a Sansa-ish brat about a decade ago, I feel compelled to stand up for her. Okay, so I was actually an ugly kid, and not popular, but I was plenty snobbish and romantically delusional and mean to my sister. Somehow I turned out to be a self-sufficient and relatively well-adjusted adult with healthy relationships, a career that benefits humanity, and no poorly-done facial tattoos (only top-quality professional facial tattoos for me  ;))

 

Why do I care about this at all? Because all of you will probably have to interact with a bratty teenage girl at some point in your lives. When you do, I hope you will be more like the Ned, and less like Boros Blount (and DEFINITELY less like Littlefinger, yikes). More like Septa Mordane and less like Queen Cersei. Teenagers can be especially infuriating around the 12-14 age. Sansa is no exception, I'd say GRRM got "that age" across pretty well. But people who are irritating or even immoral at 12 are not doomed to become terrible adults. They mature, develop their personal moral standards, and learn that life is not a song, as is Sansa's story, and it's entirely because of the people that they meet and what they learn from adult role models.

 

Sansa's got about 11 years of good parenting going against about 2 years of a hostile environment and bad influences. She doesn't have much (intentional) blood on her hands, and has made enough small kind gestures (saving Dontos, helping Lancel at blackwater) that I've got hope for her.   

 

I'm not even going to read any responses to this post (okay I totally will, but I won't respond to anything). I just needed to get that off my chest.

 

*steps off soapbox*



#2 The Kinkslayer

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 08:52 PM

The hate for Sansa comes of her being so dumb. Is as simple as that.


Edited by The Kinkslayer, 25 March 2014 - 08:52 PM.


#3 Bright Blue Eyes

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 08:53 PM

You are spot on.

 

Except the Septa Mordane bit, she is an atrocious teacher/caretaker. Still better than Cersei, but that is saying something is drier than water.



#4 The Wolves

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 08:53 PM

The hate for Sansa comes of her being so dumb. Is as simple as that.


Lol, but I don't hate Sansa I love her.

#5 Arle

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 08:55 PM

At the start she just didn't know what to do, seemed a bit help less. With each couple of chapters/episodes, I just grew to get annoyed of her. Then after a bit of reconsideration, I realized most people including me wouldn't do any better in those situations and I related to her instead.



#6 Queen Sansa Stark

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 08:55 PM

You raise up very good points what the source of Sansa hate is, but I would like to add a couple things. One of the things that Sansa is disliked by readers is because normally when people read a book they do it because they want to escape reality and delve into another world. However Sansa is so hyper realistic and I have a feeling it frustrates people to read someone who is so.. normal. There is no magic in her narrative when most of the pov characters have magic to a certain degree in their narrative. Several people have said that Sansa was too passive in King's Landing and right now in the Vale when they don't realize that most people would have behaved like Sansa. To me it feels like a lot of people deny they were ever like Sansa or could ever be. 


Edited by The Sun of Dorne, 25 March 2014 - 09:01 PM.


#7 Mladen

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 08:56 PM

The hate for Sansa comes of her being so dumb. Is as simple as that.

 

The hate for Sansa usually comes from those who skimmed her chapters... Proven by your comment.



#8 bloodsteel bitterraven

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 09:00 PM

I don't think Sansa is one of the most hated characters.  I would say she has become one of the most popular characters.  There are of course some idiots who hate her just because, but that's true for all characters especially female ones.



#9 Victarion Chainbreaker

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 09:00 PM

The source of Sansa-hate is the books, more specifically Sansa's actions and choices in the books.


Edited by Victarion the Awesome, 26 March 2014 - 12:08 AM.


#10 Lord Joker Of FunLand

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 09:02 PM

It's that people have different opinions, likes, dislikes.

 

That simple. 



#11 Queen Sansa Stark

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 09:03 PM

It's that people have different opinions, likes, dislikes.

 

That simple. 

 

There is a major difference between dislike and hatred. 



#12 Florina Laufeyson

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 09:05 PM

 

The hate for Sansa usually comes from those who skimmed her chapters... Proven by your comment.

No, he is not wrong. Sansa appears to us as very obtuse and rather flippant and even vapid. She begins the story as a very self centered girl who gets everything she wants and doesnt have to really think about anything. Its when she gets a huge dose of reality does Sansa become a much more interesting character. 

The lingering hatred for her comes from people who dont wish to see that Sansa has become a more interesting character over the course of the series. Just like how people still hate Theon or still think Dany's gonna save the world, etc.


Edited by Florina Laufeyson, 25 March 2014 - 09:06 PM.


#13 Queen Sansa Stark

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 09:07 PM

No, he is not wrong. Sansa appears to us as very obtuse and rather flippant and even vapid. She begins the story as a very self centered girl who gets everything she wants and doesnt have to really think about anything. Its when she gets a huge dose of reality does Sansa become a much more interesting character. 

 

She is highborn lady of course she never thought of it, because society raised her to not question those things. She lives in a classist society. Besides most of the noble people have this attitude. It is not something special in Sansa. 


Edited by The Sun of Dorne, 25 March 2014 - 09:08 PM.


#14 harry_dresden

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 09:07 PM

One other source?

 

Her fanbase.

 

Some of you guys or girls no what I mean.



#15 harry_dresden

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 09:11 PM

because society raised her to not question those things. She lives in a classist society. Besides most of the noble people have this attitude. It is not something special in Sansa. 

 

Much like how Cersei never realized the bullshit of the patriarchy from a young age?

 

Oh wait.

 

Not really an excuse.


Edited by harry_dresden, 25 March 2014 - 09:12 PM.


#16 Mladen

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 09:12 PM

No, he is not wrong. Sansa appears to us as very obtuse and rather flippant and even vapid. She begins the story as a very self centered girl who gets everything she wants and doesnt have to really think about anything. Its when she gets a huge dose of reality does Sansa become a much more interesting character. 

The lingering hatred for her comes from people who dont wish to see that Sansa has become a more interesting character over the course of the series. Just like how people still hate Theon or still think Dany's gonna save the world, etc.

 

Actually you just proved my point. The hatred for Sansa comes from a portion of her storyline. To ignore the progress actually means not to pay attention. She is not stupid which can be easily seen in her chapters. Part of having one character spread through 5 books is that the character in question changes, readers find out the new things and change the POV about them. If we don't change the POV in how we see certain characters due to progress they make over the course of the books, what's the point of reading pass page 1? 



#17 ARYa_Nym

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 09:12 PM

She is actually one of the more popular characters.

 

I think because she's not as popular as Arya there seems to be essays on here and elsewhere to defend her and why she needs to be liked and more popular. Your fave is not going to be everyone's fave.

 

As an example, just because many people say Arya is either a psychopath or sociopath who needs to die in ADoS doesn't mean that she's a hated character. She's one of the more popular characters.

 

Even Dany who I think does get the most amount of hate on these forums is actually still popular in the fandom especially with show viewers.



#18 Queen Sansa Stark

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 09:12 PM

 

Much like how Cersei never realized the bullshit of the patriarchy from a young age?

 

Not really an excuse.

 

Sansa didn't have a twin brother she could pretend to be and figure out how fucked up their society is. 



#19 cocoalover1956

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 09:14 PM

I can understand people not liking Sansa, but there are times I find the intensity of hatred directed toward her and lack of empathy for her situation genuinely disturbing, especially considering how vulnerable and vilified young girls in real life.



#20 harry_dresden

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 09:14 PM

 

Sansa didn't have a twin brother she could pretend to be and figure out how fucked up their society is. 

 

excuses excuses excuses

 

They don't work out.

 

Cersei actually did realize the bullshit, doesn't matter if Sansa doesn't have a Jaime equiv. around.