Daenerys as a "Villain" Appreciation 2.0, with new take

[Toking Targaryen]

So to answer the OP

1. Yes i do, because she is at this time in her eyes the rightful heir after Aegon and because she is ignorant to his existance she would be from her point of view the rightful queen. I will only support her as long as she is ignorant of Aegon's claim. If she meets him and refuses his right i will oppose her.

2. Conquering wont make her a villain, she is taking what is rightfully hers (Again, she doesnt know about Aegon so it is rightfully hers.) and if the lords of the Seven Kingdoms refuse her then they are traitors and they will pay with blood and be bathed in fire. Their choice.

3. Any noble house that is attempting to usurp the Iron throne without a decent claim deserves no sympathy, they are law breakers and war starters.

[Metopheles]

You say there is a general consensus that he is a fake, i wont argue that but i havent seen any evidence. In fact the evidence seems to stack in his favor. Bringing dragons back to the world is obviously a sign of great power and it is something that needs to be recognized and respected but just returning dragons to the world is no decent claim on the throne. The chromosome of the individual means everything, in our world promoting a man over a woman is seen as sexist and ignorant but Westeros is not our world, by Andal law, culture and tradition the first born male is the heir to any titles unless otherwise stated by the current title holder (I.e. King Viserys I and his daughter). Assuming he is indeed Rhaegar's son i dont see anyway around his claim.

Welcome you too, then :)

Ahem.. the consensus I got, from months of reading here and recently joining, is that he is fake. Doesn't matter now, though

My point was missed...

Bringing dragons back should be the default right to rule for a Targaryen. Not any others, nor a default right completely. Solely if Targs would win.

If Daenerys, who we saw has struggled and always picked herself up again, who brought back dragons and freed millions of people.. If Aegon comes, or Jon, as much as I both like them, If they come, join as bastard and brother, and say "Auntie, hey, thanks for birthing dragons, Aeg ? You the green, me the black ? and the white, I keep for our firstborn, so here you go auntie, back to Vaes Dothrak now...

No, just no.

Jon and Aegon do not deserve it. Trueborn and heir or not.

If in the end the y chromosome of Aegon (only meant in providing the truer heir, not anything else) would make him king, after Daenerys allowed him to win, then he should burn. For all the love of Rhaegar, let him burn.

Because that is plain stealing.

[Metopheles]

Indeed. Nobody should be on the Iron Throne. The Kingdoms should regain their autonomy.

If the greenlanders want to exterminate each other over the Iron Throne, though, I can't say I'll be too distraught.

Interesting thing.

But autonomy would not really work there. I think the union was a good thing. taxes and all aside, but providing for each other helped a lot. Why not exclude only the Iron Islands ? You know I like them, so don't get me wrong..

They do not provide anything for the greenlanders, nor do the greenlanders give them anything but scorn (deserved ;))

They do not even share any traditions. They could pretty much be Switzerland or Vatican or Monaco. Be on Europe but not much more. Like each other and all. Autonomy for them.

But the others will not be able to do it. They are far too dependent on each other. We saw that during ACOK. They need each other and a good authority. But I agree the Iron throne should melt. Place there the ebony bench and make a council instead of a king. A presidential figure who may name itself king, but has like the romans a triumvirate. Three supreme leaders. and then lords.

It's not perfect but it could work. But anarchy only works in small places. Not in a vast kingdom.

tl.dr : Autonomy for Iron Islands, Keeping the other kingdoms

[LordStoneheart]

LOL, see you said you didn't want this to be about Stannis, but he's the only one really still trying to get the IT who is popular.

I guess it depends on how things play out with Dorne and the Tyrells, I could could either way, it will depend on the specifics of who does what. Not sure how popular these families are in reality, and other than a handful of contrarians the Lannisters and Greyjoys aren't widely popular

There aren't any adult Starks left, so that's out; obviously if she becomes an adversary of Jon "Targaryen" "Stark" Snow, then she will cross into villian territory for me, but I don't see that happening.

I don't see how you pulled Stannis into this at all. Would it help if I say I didn't count him because I think it's obvious his doom is in the north somehow? Or that its quite obvious that most Stannis supporters consider her villainous in comparison to her, so I was looking for Lannister, Tyrell, Martell, Arryn, Greyjoy, and possibly Aegon fans who will directly be affected by Dany's actions? If Stannis is in the north by time she lands, he's got little to do with her.

[Toking Targaryen]

Welcome you too, then :)

Ahem.. the consensus I got, from months of reading here and recently joining, is that he is fake. Doesn't matter now, though

My point was missed...

Bringing dragons back should be the default right to rule for a Targaryen. Not any others, nor a default right completely. Solely if Targs would win.

If Daenerys, who we saw has struggled and always picked herself up again, who brought back dragons and freed millions of people.. If Aegon comes, or Jon, as much as I both like them, If they come, join as bastard and brother, and say "Auntie, hey, thanks for birthing dragons, Aeg ? You the green, me the black ? and the white, I keep for our firstborn, so here you go auntie, back to Vaes Dothrak now...

No, just no.

Jon and Aegon do not deserve it. Trueborn and heir or not.

If in the end the y chromosome of Aegon (only meant in providing the truer heir, not anything else) would make him king, after Daenerys allowed him to win, then he should burn. For all the love of Rhaegar, let him burn.

Because that is plain stealing.

Andal law says nothing about owning dragons in relation to the passing of titles. It is cool, it gives one power but it does not make them a righftul ruler. Also, non Targaryen's have owned and ridden dragons (The seeds, and if iam not mistaken some non-seeds as well.)

This isnt a matter of what one deserves it is a matter of law. Aegon is the lawful heir. In addition Daenerys has proven on multiple occasion that while she is benevolant she is a terrible ruler. If Daenerys has any sense of honor she will marry Aegon and be his Queen, if she refuses his right then she becomes naught but a traitor (I know i am a broken record.). Jon is third in line and unaware of his Targaryen blood so i wouldnt even bring him into it at this point.

[raegal_targaryen]

i do not believe aegon is a fake there are three things he might be and thats rhaegars son or a blackfyre from female line or a brightflame that would make him a targaryen and best claim to the throne or he might be both black and red that would be an awesome mix no evidence for that though just a thought

[Metopheles]

Andal law

This isnt a matter of what one deserves it is a matter of law. Aegon is the lawful heir.

Yeah. See ?

That's where we both part. I am not so hung up about the law. I see things a bit more relaxed.

And fucking ice cold rational.

If the one conqueror brings me some fancy dragon and the other brings me some fancy lawyer and birth certificate

I go with the dragon.

[Toking Targaryen]

Someone else mentioned he might be a Blackfyre, as far as i know there is no evidence for this theory and is nothing more than conjecture.

[Toking Targaryen]

Yeah. See ?

That's where we both part. I am not so hung up about the law. I see things a bit more relaxed.

And fucking ice cold rational.

If the one conqueror brings me some fancy dragon and the other brings me some fancy lawyer and birth certificate

I go with the dragon.

lol fair enough.

But without law there is no order and without order there is only chaos, and unless you are a Littlefinger chaos is a bad thing. If the people of Westeros piss on the law what hope do they have? Look at how badly they urinated all over it in books 2 and 3...we dont want any more of that!

[Dany Girl]

Aegon as the "real Aegon" is highly unlikely, there are numerous threads detailing why.

Blackfyre from the female line is most likely, but if so his claim is not better than Danys as BBlackfyrs are known traitors and pretty much banned from succession.

He's really just another pawn for Dany haters to take what she's earned (her dragons) and give them to someone else since she's such an evil, crazy, bitch, or slut.

[Metopheles]

Someone else mentioned he might be a Blackfyre, as far as i know there is no evidence for this theory and is nothing more than conjecture.

There is textual proof squeezed between the lines, that Illyrio, the fantastic sellsword, and Serra, the platin blonde purple eyed beauty, are the true parents of Young Griff.

I for one, could care less if Illyrio is a Blackfyre. I don't believe it a second and there is no need for it.

[Toking Targaryen]

I think the only proper course of action is for Aegon to marry Daenerys, that would fufill both their desires because i cannot imagine them not sharing a joint rule. She has the dragons and the compassion and he has the right to the title.

As for this Aegon might be a blackfyre, can someone please point me to a source for this? I have noticed people like to come up with a lot of theories around here and i LOVE it but my only issue is this: A few of the theories i have seen are just a fans desires or conjecture without any real support to the claims.

[Metopheles]

lol fair enough.

But without law there is no order and without order there is only chaos, and unless you are a Littlefinger chaos is a bad thing. If the people of Westeros piss on the law what hope do they have? Look at how badly they urinated all over it in books 2 and 3...we dont want any more of that!

I would give LF his victory because I can sympathize with his reasons..ya I am that awful..

I think there should be law. Good law. Not stupid formality law. Don't kill traitors at a feast, Don't let the dragon come before the line of succession, don't fuck while Night Watching, don't drink while Septoning, don't desert because you are afraid of Others..

I like law. And I like common sense. Above all, I like when things stop at the right moment.

Lizard eats paper.

[Toking Targaryen]

::How do i delete a post?::

[Toking Targaryen]

I would give LF his victory because I can sympathize with his reasons..ya I am that awful..

I think there should be law. Good law. Not stupid formality law. Don't kill traitors at a feast, Don't let the dragon come before the line of succession, don't fuck while Night Watching, don't drink while Septoning, don't desert because you are afraid of Others..

I like law. And I like common sense. Above all, I like when things stop at the right moment.

Lizard eats paper.

Haha ok.

[RoamingRonin]

Icu trying to drag my fav into this. Dany has already shown she's willing to play dirty, she's not above resorting to extremes.

Again, vague. Who hasn't shown they are willing to play dirty? Who hasn't resorted to extremes?

[Metopheles]

::How do i delete a post?::

not possible :P

[Metopheles]

Again, vague. Who hasn't shown they are willing to play dirty? Who hasn't resorted to extremes?

Tommen. Myrcella. Doran..for now.

[Wmarshal]

Again, vague. Who hasn't shown they are willing to play dirty? Who hasn't resorted to extremes?

Aegon, Stannis, Edmure, Doran, and Lysa never used smallfolk attacking methods.

[Toking Targaryen]

Icu trying to drag my fav into this. Dany has already shown she's willing to play dirty, she's not above resorting to extremes.

In situation where power is in question and being vied for by multiple factions extremes and dirty tricks are required, no matter how good one might be victory can never be acheived with honor.