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Is Aegon the rightful heir?


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Well,

an important "proof" is the simple presence of Varys (and so Illyrio's network of influence) in King's Landing.
Illyrio told Tyrion that really all they wanted was a position as Counselor of the Coin in Westeros.

That is: an infamously rich couple of friends spent 20 years risking the enemity of a powerful empire, leaving the life of one of them at stakes for 20 years, spending vast resources in secret enterprises and diverting time and energy from the most profictable affairs into seeding civil wars just to...
Earn marginally more money than they are already earning, and arguabily so, because the opportunit costs could be enorous.

Now the same people were involved in Aerys madness, and in Eddard Stark's confession which allowed Joffrey to be manipulated into making an all out war inevitable.

Now the same people are involved in trying to give Daenerys an army of screamers and a reason to the screamers to avenge against Robert: Varys sent both the winer-assassin and Jorah Mormont to Daenerys.

Now I ask: is this just a logical plan an "homo economicus" would have devised to improve his riches, or is this the indication of some personal motivation on Illyrio and Varys part?

And which is the simplest motivation that explains all of Illyrio's and Varys's activities and lies since book one?
My answer is: Illyrio's wife, Serra, was the last female line Blackfyre, after Maegor's death during the Ninepenny Kings attempt. She is Varys's sister and "Aegon"'s mother. Maybe the boy is actually called Aegon, why not?
Connington doesn't know that Aegon is a relative fake, as the others in the Connington's group. He sincerely beleves exactly what he wanted to believe: something of Rhaegar is still alive, and he can help him.

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"No one can prove he is fake"???



That Aegon is dead, that the boy found in mother's arms and then killed was Aegon is what everyone in Westeros currently knows to be true. Aegon is the one that has to prove his story and he has nothing and nobody to do that with.


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One thing that always makes me think Illiryo's connected to the Blackfyres is, the statue of himself.

Granted, this could refer to Brightflame or any other Targaryen/royal line but for this argument I'll say Blackfyre.

To commission a statue like that is extremely vain, especially if he posed for it when he was just a poor bravo living by his blade. Almost all the other statues we're shown are connected to ancient bloodlines like the harpy and Baelor.

ETA "Perhaps you chanced to glimpse the statue by my pool? Pytho Malanon carved that when I was six-and-ten. A lovely thing, though now I weep to see it." Tyrion 2 ADWD

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I think the only proper course of action is for Aegon to marry Dany and to share the rule jointly. She has the dragons and compassion and he has the rightful title.

Cute kid. Titles mean jack if you can't earn them.

Aegon is as fake a Kim Kardashiens ass.

The simple fact that the Golden Company supports him is enough evidence for me. Nobody in Westeros even knows this dude is alive. Thats a big conspiracy.

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No.

And I know you mentioned in the OP that throne by conquest doesn't really count but it does or Robert wouldn't have been King at all.

Since the Rebellion, and considering Joff, Tommen, and Myrcella are not really Baratheons, Stannis is actually seriously unequivocally the rightful heir to the Iron Throne after Robert's death.

Not Dany, Aegon, or Jon (if he is Targaryen).

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No.

And I know you mentioned in the OP that throne by conquest doesn't really count but it does or Robert wouldn't have been King at all.

Since the Rebellion, and considering Joff, Tommen, and Myrcella are not really Baratheons, Stannis is actually seriously unequivocally the rightful heir to the Iron Throne after Robert's death.

Not Dany, Aegon, or Jon (if he is Targaryen).

Good point. The Iron Throne is essentially a throne owned by whomever can take it. Aegon Targaryen I earned it through conquest, and so did Robert. Bloodlines and Titles are just petty facts people use to substantiate their rule, but ultimately you rule by the sword. So yes. In the absence of a new conqueror, Stannis is actually the rightful King. Not Dany, not Young Griff (unless he conquers it), and sure as hell not Jon on the wall.

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Good point. The Iron Throne is essentially a throne owned by whomever can take it. Aegon Targaryen I earned it through conquest, and so did Robert. Bloodlines and Titles are just petty facts people use to substantiate their rule, but ultimately you rule by the sword. So yes. In the absence of a new conqueror, Stannis is actually the rightful King. Not Dany, not Young Griff (unless he conquers it), and sure as hell not Jon on the wall.

Everything you said is completely correct, but Robert did try to claim some blood legitimacy through some Targaryen relatives on top of his conquest right.

When Game of Thrones began, this was the line of succession:

Viserys, Dany, Robert, Stannis, Shireen, Renly

Currently, this is line of succession:

Dany, Stannis, Shireen

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When Game of Thrones began, this was the line of succession:

Viserys, Dany, Robert, Stannis, Shireen, Renly

Currently, this is line of succession:

Dany, Stannis, Shireen

Not completely accurate.

At the start of AGoT the line of succession was:

Joffery, Tommen, Stannis, Renly.

Currently the line of succession is:

Tommen, Myrcella.

Stannis has been excluded as the majority of the realm view him as a rebel who worships a foreign God. Dany and Aegon are not in the line of succession since the Targaryen dynasty ended after the rebellion.

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We, as readers, know that they are products of incest and thus should be excluded. In-story though there is no way to prove this unless Cersei and/or Jaime confess or Cersei loses her trial. Therefore as it stands within the story, Tommen is king and Myrcella his heir. Shireen is excluded as well because Stannis is viewed as a rebel.


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We, as readers, know that they are products of incest and thus should be excluded. In-story though there is no way to prove this unless Cersei and/or Jaime confess or Cersei loses her trial. Therefore as it stands within the story, Tommen is king and Myrcella his heir. Shireen is excluded as well because Stannis is viewed as a rebel.

I guess you are correct, it can't be proved. Even if Jamie and Cercei confess to an affair, it still can't be proven that Tommen and Mycella aren't Roberts.

It's an odd thing. Everyone knows they are a product of incest. And most importantly, the Tyrells know, but no one can do anything about it.

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It's an odd thing. Everyone knows they are a product of incest. And most importantly, the Tyrells know, but no one can do anything about it.

I don't think it's a situation where "the Tyrells know but can't do anything about it" but rather "the Tyrells know but refuse to do something about it" as it will not be in their best interests. Remember if Tommen is declared illegitimate then he is no longer the king and therefore Margaery is not the queen.

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I think ( though not sure) that he (Young Griff) could be the rightful heir anyway, even if he is a Blackfyre, or Blackfyre + Brightflame.



Because:



"...Since the Dance, House Targaryen has practiced a highly modified version of agnatic primogeniture, placing female claimants in the line of succession behind all possible male ones, even collateral relations." (Wiki of ice and fire).



So: If the kid is a proper Blackfyre, he is a Targaryen as well ( because, Daemon was legitimized ), and, since he is a male, he could be the first in the line of succession, considering that another Targaryen is a female, and the third is the brother of the NW.



On the other hand, Daemon probably lost his place in the line of succession along with his head on the Redgrass field. So...I don't know.


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I think ( though not sure) that he (Young Griff) could be the rightful heir anyway, even if he is a Blackfyre, or Blackfyre + Brightflame.

Because:

"...Since the Dance, House Targaryen has practiced a highly modified version of agnatic primogeniture, placing female claimants in the line of succession behind all possible male ones, even collateral relations." (Wiki of ice and fire).

So: If the kid is a proper Blackfyre, he is a Targaryen as well ( because, Daemon was legitimized ), and, since he is a male, he could be the first in the line of succession, considering that another Targaryen is a female, and the third is the brother of the NW.

On the other hand, Daemon probably lost his place in the line of succession along with his head on the Redgrass field. So...I don't know.

So, from what I can see, the legitimized Targaryen line went to

Daemon I

Then, after his sons Aemon and Aegon were killed, it went to:

Daemon II

Who is last seen arrested in The Mystery Knight. The heir is then his brother:

Haemon

Who we know nothing about.

It could be that Haemon fled to Essos and had

Serra

Who married Illyrio and had:

(f)Aegon

But, this is pure speculation based on nothing.

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All male Blackfyres were confirmed dead, Aegon, if Blackfyre, certainly descended from a daughter of Daemon or the daughter of one of sons. If so, it shouldn't put him ahead in succession to Stannis, who is male and through his Targaryan grandmother descended from Aegon V, Maekar and Daeron, Daemon's elder trueborn brother.



And anyway, even after Dance they once again called a Great Council about whether too put Aegon V on the throne ahead of his sickly or crazy nieces. The females claim never completely go away.


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All male Blackfyres were confirmed dead, Aegon, if Blackfyre, certainly descended from a daughter of Daemon or the daughter of one of sons. If so, it shouldn't put him ahead in succession to Stannis, who is male and through his Targaryan grandmother descended from Aegon V, Maekar and Daeron, Daemon's elder trueborn brother.

And anyway, even after Dance they once again called a Great Council about whether too put Aegon V on the throne ahead of his sickly or crazy nieces. The females claim never completely go away.

It does seem that matrilineage is a reoccuring theme in the story:

1) Dalla and Val and their importance beyond the Wall

2) Daenerys

3) Cercei's matrilineal passing of kingship to her children

4) Sansa's role

5) Who Harrenhall goes to

6) The powers Cat and Lysa give to their children

7) Myrcella

8) Arienne

I would expect it plays a role in the Blackfyre as well.

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No matter who Aegon is, the rightful heir to the Iron throne is Stannis.

In fact if both Dany and Aegon died, wouldn't Stannis be the rightful heir on both the Targaryen and Baratheon sides?

I do believe so yes.

But there is an error in understanding about the crowning of Robert.

Robert didn't seem to really want to be King but a council was called, likely of the victors, and they used his close tie to the Targaryen line as a factor in putting him and not others on the throne.

So Robert didn't actually use his Targaryen blood to get there. He and his alliance won the war and had to pick a new king. And the lords used that as some extra reasoning.

I'm not a fan of book Stannis (my name actually has nothing to do with Stannis, the Targs, or R'hllor) except for his dry wit so I really can't endorse him taking the throne and I don't favor that outcome but if you take it all for what it really is and what is true Stannis really is the rightful heir after Robert's death.

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