Ukraine and Russia where will this go? AKA Ukraine VIII

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

We're past 400.

Continue.

[Frog Eater]

Crimea is part of Russia now.

Russia is staging its tanks and armies on Ukrainian border to shift focus from Crimea to greater Ukraine.

In exchange for lifting sanctions, Russia will stand down its armies from Ukrainian border, but will keep Crimea

Putin wins what he wanted

[Disturber of Peace]

sure. WWII partisan slogan, aye? i'm from the US, ergo neznam--ali supruga je sarajevna, bila je titovi pionir.

she's cosmopolitan, left when the nationalists started the civil wars. even though those wars are over, the partisan/pioneer slogan has continuing relevance.

I just wanted to say this post has really shaken my theory that Solo just made his avatar's bithdate to coincide with the October Revolution.

[armidil0]

Crimea is part of Russia now.

Russia is staging its tanks and armies on Ukrainian border to shift focus from Crimea to greater Ukraine.

In exchange for lifting sanctions, Russia will stand down its armies from Ukrainian border, but will keep Crimea

Putin wins what he wanted

I feel like that would not work.

But then again I'm not an expert at anything so it might if he decides to do that.

[Shryke]

Mladen,

Seriously, what are you talking about? What opinions in any of these Ukrainian threads have been "the same Miodrag has, only in different direction"? What are these "radical views"? What are the details?

Snake

That's not how I remember it. I recall a lot of US boarders back during the buildup to war being supportive of it and most of them were not right wing extremists. I recall a couple French posters getting slammed pretty good too. Was a rather nasty time on this board to be honest.

Really? I wasn't even a member back then (as far as I remember anyway) so I'm not sure. Wouldn't exactly surprise me. Other americans I knew then were alot more supportive of the whole thing then any of the non-Americans I knew. Frankly, I don't know any non-americans who didn't think the whole thing was crazy.

[Phaing]

The UN General Assembly has approved a resolution describing the Moscow-backed referendum that led to Russia's annexation of Crimea as illegal.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26776416

Congress just voted to pass One Billion loan, and there is talk of an IMF loan of about 16 Billion again, but I'd pass.

With the One Billion, Ukraine could byt Gold, print 20 Billion in paper and say they had the closest thing to a Gold-backed currency in the world.

And they would be right...

[The Iceman of the North]

That's not how I remember it. I recall a lot of US boarders back during the buildup to war being supportive of it and most of them were not right wing extremists. I recall a couple French posters getting slammed pretty good too. Was a rather nasty time on this board to be honest.

Sure it was nasty Snake, but your statement depends on the definition of right wing extremists. Back then, the NYT was right wing extremist.

[Ouroboros]

The UN General Assembly has approved a resolution describing the Moscow-backed referendum that led to Russia's annexation of Crimea as illegal.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26776416

Congress just voted to pass One Billion loan, and there is talk of an IMF loan of about 16 Billion again, but I'd pass.

With the One Billion, Ukraine could byt Gold, print 20 Billion in paper and say they had the closest thing to a Gold-backed currency in the world.

And they would be right...

It's interesting, but probably expected, that China abstained from voting. They are working hard to remain on good or at least non-hostile terms with every body. Of everyone involved I think China has displayed the most level head.

[Disturber of Peace]

It's interesting, but probably expected, that China abstained from voting. They are working hard to remain on good or at least non-hostile terms with every body. Of everyone involved I think China has displayed the most level head.

It is mostly just trying to keep all options open for them.

[Mladen]

Mladen,

Seriously, what are you talking about? What opinions in any of these Ukrainian threads have been "the same Miodrag has, only in different direction"? What are these "radical views"? What are the details?

Hey. I am being just nonsensical around here trying to argue some more balanced approach. But, Shryke, the way you put me in the same basket with Miodrag, and him putting me in the same basket with you just show the radical way of thinking you both have. I am neither Serb nationalist who considers Western countries to be some great evil and all "Nazis" (which your comment "some of you" on Kosovo thread showed) neither I am some NATO bombing apologist Miodrag perhaps sees me.

All I know and what is important for this thread that what Russia did with Crimea is wrong and that there can be no justification for it. They behave like bully and above the law and that must be stopped.

[The Marquis de Leech]

With the One Billion, Ukraine could byt Gold, print 20 Billion in paper and say they had the closest thing to a Gold-backed currency in the world.

And they would be right...

Why would they want to do that?

[snake]

Mladen,

Seriously, what are you talking about? What opinions in any of these Ukrainian threads have been "the same Miodrag has, only in different direction"? What are these "radical views"? What are the details?

Snake

Really? I wasn't even a member back then (as far as I remember anyway) so I'm not sure. Wouldn't exactly surprise me. Other americans I knew then were alot more supportive of the whole thing then any of the non-Americans I knew. Frankly, I don't know any non-americans who didn't think the whole thing was crazy.

That was the way it was here for the most part. Most were inclined to believe their government of the day while the rest of us felt there was something not quite right. I was just glad we stayed out of it.

Sure it was nasty Snake, but your statement depends on the definition of right wing extremists. Back then, the NYT was right wing extremist.

lol. In that light then yes, you are correct.

In Ukraine news, Right Sector are getting pissy and the new President is calling them out. That's a hopeful sign methinks. Story.

[Shryke]

Hey. I am being just nonsensical around here trying to argue some more balanced approach. But, Shryke, the way you put me in the same basket with Miodrag, and him putting me in the same basket with you just show the radical way of thinking you both have. I am neither Serb nationalist who considers Western countries to be some great evil and all "Nazis" (which your comment "some of you" on Kosovo thread showed) neither I am some NATO bombing apologist Miodrag perhaps sees me.

All I know and what is important for this thread that what Russia did with Crimea is wrong and that there can be no justification for it. They behave like bully and above the law and that must be stopped.

Uh huh. This is gobbledegook. I was really wondering what you considered "radical views" but now it just seems like you just use the word with no real idea of what you even mean when you say it.

[Ser Loudmouth]

I have seen in the news the past few days more and more stories about the Russian buildup on the Ukrainian borders and about how an invasion into Ukraine proper may be imminent. Does the media in other countries also carry such stories? And what do you think? Will we see things coming to a conclusion, one way or another, in the next days?

Off topic, but in reply to Clueless Northman's last post in the previous thread.

Yeah, and the Vienna Award never happened, only EVIL Commies took a bite out of Romania, but nice Axis guys Hungary and Bulgaria never got a nice (and pretty big for the former) chunk of her. Nope, that's just Bolshevik propaganda; or maybe corrupt decadent Western lies.

What on earth made you think I would ever defend the Dictate of Vienna!!!? All the abusive land-grabs that happened in 1940 were wrong. It just happened that Basarabia was the first territory that was taken away from Romania and the first one it could attempt to take back. Romanian public opinion, and even Romanian officials never made it a secret that they were going to go to war with Hungary the moment the war in Russia ended (and that's what ultimately did happen, after the war in Russia ended in defeat). Romania's situation was a lot like that of Poland, it was caught between two equally hostile power blocks and who it ultimately ended up joining was as much a question of chance as of choice.

[Shryke]

Yanukovych is now calling for a referendum for autonomy in every region of the Ukraine.

Quality Ukrainian leader there.

[Shryke]

Also, from US Intelligence:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303779504579465830294243784?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702303779504579465830294243784.html

Russian troops massing near Ukraine are actively concealing their positions and establishing supply lines that could be used in a prolonged deployment, ratcheting up concerns that Moscow is preparing for another major incursion and not conducting exercises as it claims, U.S. officials said.

Such an incursion could take place without warning because Russia has already deployed the array of military forces needed for such an operation, say officials briefed on the latest U.S. intelligence.

[Clueless Northman]

All the abusive land-grabs that happened in 1940 were wrong. It just happened that Basarabia was the first territory that was taken away from Romania and the first one it could attempt to take back. Romanian public opinion, and even Romanian officials never made it a secret that they were going to go to war with Hungary the moment the war in Russia ended (and that's what ultimately did happen, after the war in Russia ended in defeat). Romania's situation was a lot like that of Poland, it was caught between two equally hostile power blocks and who it ultimately ended up joining was as much a question of chance as of choice.

Ok, thanks for clarifying this :)

I had the wrong impression that you were just blaming USSR for the carving up of Romania and that Romania had good reasons to fight with Axis against USSR to take Bessarabia back - while, as far as I can see, siding with USSR to take back Tranyslvania or Dobruja could be justified just as much.

[Kungsmurfen]

Vice dispatch nineteen. (It's a long one)

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Here's an interesting BBC story about the tensions between ethnic Latvians and ethnic Russians living in Latvia:

http://m.bbc.com/news/world-africa-26720549

From the article:

Elderly World War Two veterans lead the crowd. And many of the participants are carrying flowers to lay at the Freedom Monument, Latvia's symbol of national independence.

They have come here to commemorate those who died defending Latvia against the Soviet Union in the war.

But with Russian troops now in nearby Ukraine, many in the Baltics are alarmed that history may be about to repeat itself.

"If Ukraine falls, then Russian ambitions won't stop with this. I believe we will be next in Russia's list of actions," said one young man who had come to take part in the procession.

"It shows the attitude of Russia - how it goes into another country very easily and acts in an aggressive manner," said another.

'Nazi sympathisers'

But this annual memorial service is highly controversial. These elderly veterans fought against Russia - but for Nazi Germany.

The Baltics have spent much of their history being buffeted between neighbouring imperial forces.

And in WWII, having already suffered severe oppression under Stalin, many Latvians saw Hitler's forces as the lesser of two evils - Latvia's only chance of not slipping back into Stalinist oppression.

But the veterans and their supporters are accused of being Nazi sympathisers - particularly by Latvia's large Russian-speaking community.

About 1,000 Russian-speakers have gathered behind police barricades near the monument to protest. "Fascists go home!" shout some. "Shame! Shame!" shout others.

Wow. That sounds like it's going no where good.

[Free Northman Reborn]

What is called for now is a pro-Russia government taking over via armed revolution in Mexico, with strong anti American views and talk of joining a new Warsaw pact.

Just to see how "level headed" America reacts then.