Euron Greyjoy and Pyat Pree

[Lord Varys]

From the (updated) App we know that

1. Pyat Pree and three warlock companions have been captured by the Silence before Euron returned to Pyke. Before that, we only had his claim that he captured some warlocks, although the fact that he has and drinks Shade of the Evening was always a strong sign.

2. Euron captured Dragonbinder along with the warlocks; it was on their ship, possibly in the possession of the warlocks since battle/war between Valyria and Qarth that the Qartheen won, most likely due to the supreme skills of the Undying.

3. Pyat Pree was not the warlock Euron (allegedly) fed to his companions because GRRM already indicated that Pyat Pree would show up in a coming novel.

This puts a lot of things in a remarkably different light:

1. We have to keep in mind that magic is growing stronger again. The warlocks of Qarth were pretty impotent back in ACoK, but they were already getting stronger when Dany left. No one knows what Pyat Pree and company are capable of right now...

2. The whole Faceless Man in Euron's employ may be red herring/dead end. A capable Qartheen warlock should have been able to take out Balon just as easily as a Faceless Man.

3. If the magics of the warlocks of Qarth are getting stronger, we cannot necessarily be surely that Euron is Euron anymore, or that Euron is in control of what Euron is doing. Even if Euron forces the to do his will right now, there is no guarantee that this will continue. Pyat Pree set out to destroy Daenerys Targaryen, not to use her for his own ends, so I guess Euron would be wise not to trust the warlocks in regards to anything connected to his scheme to win Dany and her dragons for himself.

4. Euron is painted as the main antagonist/threat to Daenerys Targaryen by Moqorro during his conversation with Tyrion. This could be a hint that Pyat Pree already has or will turn the table on Euron. It has been made clear during the Kingsmoot that Euron Greyjoy is built up as a force of destruction. Asha offers the Ironborn reality and common sense, whereas Euron fills up their heads with mad and dangerous dreams.

A connection with the Qartheen warlocks should add a lot to that, especially since they should have no interest to really help Euron and/or anyone in Westeros.

5. If Dragonbinder was originally in possession of the Qartheen, it may not exactly be a tool to enslave dragons, but a weapon against them. The Valyrian glyphs Moqorro read to Victarion suggests otherwise, but we don't even know whether he was lying to Victarion. And we certainly don't know if Pyat Pree and his colleagues told Euron the truth about the purpose of the horn. It's even possible that they added the glyphs to the horn to mislead anyone who would try to use it without their help/consent.

Euron having real sorcerers backing/helping him makes a lot more dangerous than people may have thought.

A glimpse:

- The warlocks could have visions of the future, in precision similar to the foresight of Moqorro (Euron's tactic to take the Shield Isles was daring - but was it just daring, the sign of his supreme tactic as naval commander, or had he magical insight?).

- Magical control of the elements could prove vital (and decisive) during the long-overdue battle between the Ironborn and the Redwyne fleet. I always said - and continue to say - that Euron will crush Paxter, but that's now a lot more likely that it was yesterday... Even if the warlocks can't control water, we know that there were some pretty impressive fire sorcerers back in Qarth.

[OutlawSarge]

very interesting. the dusky women could be a warlock in disguise. she obviously is more than what she seems, and victorian tells us that by saying "all of euron's gift are poison." and I agree the "dragon binder" could very well be a device used to kill dragons.

[Maester2chainz]

Everyone assumes It's Euron who captured the Warlocks, but how do we know it actually wasn't the other way around and Pyat is posing as Euron.

[Aerys Ahai Reborn]

3. Pyat Pree was not the warlock Euron (allegedly) fed to his companions because GRRM already indicated that Pyat Pree would show up in a coming novel.

IIRC, GRRM said we'd learn of his fate. So we might simply just learn that he was the one killed.

2. The whole Faceless Man in Euron's employ may be red herring/dead end. A capable Qartheen warlock should have been able to take out Balon just as easily as a Faceless Man.

We still have what the GoHH said. That was pretty clear on it being a Faceless Man.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Everyone assumes It's Euron who captured the Warlocks, but how do we know it actually wasn't the other way around and Pyat is posing as Euron.

That would (kinda) explain the blue lips.

[Luthien125]

I don't think the warlocks want to kill the dragons, their magic gets stronger when they are around. They just want revenge on Dany.

As I said on a previous thread regarding the warlocks, Euron doesn’t look like the man who would marry into power; he will take it and share it with no one. He knows Dany needs ships, so she sends Victarion, knowing she will be forced to search for an alliance with him. He probably learned about the dragons through the warlocks, who are advising him in black magic. He is drinking shade of the evening. I believe he will eventually be Dany greatest threat.

The warlocks are looking for revenge through him. Pyat has allied himself with Euron, promising him the Iron Throne through the control of Dany’s dragons.

[Rikard Stark]

Everyone assumes It's Euron who captured the Warlocks, but how do we know it actually wasn't the other way around and Pyat is posing as Euron.

Euron had a large memory of the Iron islands and the people though, even after the kingsmoot. If a Warlock has posed as him he knows everything there is to know and is playing the part of the crows eye well. But it wouldn't fit with the Dany prophecy of the one eye on the water thing.

[Capon Breath]

Love it. Eurone = Pyatt Pree has long been a pet theory of mine. Great to have other beleivers

[aFeastForDragons]

""One most of all. A tall and twisted thing with one black eye and ten long arms, sailing on a sea of blood.""

Paxter Redwyne and his fleet are going to be annihilated. Then its on to Oldtown.

[Veltigar]

I'm convinced that the warlocks are in weuron's thrall. After all Euron took them while he still had a FM with him (the Dusky Woman), took their ships and fed one of them to the others.

I'm pretty sure that thos warlocks are really shitting in their breeches and jump to every order Euron gives them.

The Reach is fucked.

[Lord Varys]

I did not necessarily mean that Euron is impersonated by a warlock. Rather, that he is not fully in control of his own mind anymore. It has been theorized that Victarion has been permanently changed by the magic Moqorro used saving his life/arm. Who can say what the Qartheen warlocks can do when they powers grew stronger still? I'd imply that they could enthrall Euron magically without actually impersonating him - and without him realizing it. I'm pretty sure he did overpower them back when he captured their ship, but from the Alchemists in KL we know that magic becomes slowly more powerful in Westeros as well as in Essos since the dragons are back (their physical presence has nothing to do with that, else the wildfire spells and the Thoros' resurrection stuff should not have worked). Back when Euron captured the Qartheens their magic may still have been relatively weak. But what about now...? The Undying could still do pretty potent stuff while magic was declining.

And the real important thing from the App is that Euron got Dragonbinder from the warlocks. The horn may be originally Valyrian, but it's very likely now that the Qartheen captured it during one of their ancient wars with Valyria, and it may have been an instrument to enslave dragons when it was originally made by the Valyrians. But who is to say that the Qartheen Undying had not messed with it ages ago, turning it from a dragonbinding instrument into a tool to destroy dragons? We all expect that Victarion's great dragonbinding moment will somehow backfire, especially since the battle seems to go so well for team Dany, so what is if the Dragonbinder drives every dragon mad who hears it sound? Thus he would turn against his rider in a war with the Qartheen, neutralizing the Valyrian dragons as a threat...

Even if that's not the case, the chances that the warlocks have messed with the horn strongly suggests that it will do whatever Euron/the warlocks want, not necessarily want Victarion/Moqorro are expecting...

It's also difficult to decide whether 'normal Euron' would dream such elaborate/ambitious dreams as conquering all of Westeros. Nor should we easily imagine that Euron had it him to murder his elder brother Balon. That's a pretty nasty thing, and although I know that Euron is no nice guy, it's difficult to judge whether he was such piece of shit back when he still lived on the isles.

I once entertained the idea that Euron may marry Cersei to form an alliance with her against King Aegon and/or the Tyrells. Cersei's only hope for retribution/survival/payback also rests firmly on Qyburn and black magic, which should make the ideal basis for an alliance with Euron and the warlocks. GRRM has always indicated that magic is going to become more and more important. Not just is stuff connected to the Others and the dragons, but also in 'normal warfare' and day-to-day life...

Speaking about that, I'm not so sure that Euron will be able to take Oldtown after he has crushed the Redwyne fleet. There are too many hints that Lord Leyton Hightower and the Mad Maid are actually dabbling with sorcery, so they could actually have the skills to counter whatever spells the Qartheen warlocks have in store. Especially if they have access Valyrian glass candles (which is very likely).

[FittleLinger]

And the real important thing from the App is that Euron got Dragonbinder from the warlocks. The horn may be originally Valyrian, but it's very likely now that the Qartheen captured it during one of their ancient wars with Valyria, and it may have been an instrument to enslave dragons when it was originally made by the Valyrians.

A question comes to mind right away - why didn't they use it in Qarth in the frist place?

Most likely answer - as I've been theorizing for a while - that the horns are bullshit. In any case, they either don't work at all or don't work the way they've been described. I subscribe to the former.

[Lord Varys]

That could be a sign that Dragonbinder did not work the way it's supposed to be back in Qarth. If the warlocks wanted the dragons back then, they could have used it on Dany's dragons. But they did not seem to want them, the Undying wanted Daenerys. But now they could try to use the horn to ruin/destroy Dany and her dragons.

[Hippocras]

One question though - why do you discount an FM?

It is not because Balon wound up dead that people think there was a Faceless Man, but because someone (ghost of high heart I think?) sais they saw "a man without a face" and something about crows and seaweed. So what would "a man without a face" refer to if not a faceless man?

I rather suspect that Euron is the man without a face, and where he went for all those years was the house of black and white for training.

[Carey Snow]

Everyone assumes It's Euron who captured the Warlocks, but how do we know it actually wasn't the other way around and Pyat is posing as Euron.

Or Pyat is posing as the dusky woman to get close to Dany. And the Dusky Woman is just the type of person that Dany will feel sympathy for and want to help. She may force Victorian into releasing the dusky woman and inviting her into her handmaiden group. Never realizing she is the warlock in disguise.

Of course, that means that Dany and Victorian need to eventually cross paths.

[NotSoSilentSister]

I did not necessarily mean that Euron is impersonated by a warlock. Rather, that he is not fully in control of his own mind anymore. It has been theorized that Victarion has been permanently changed by the magic Moqorro used saving his life/arm.

Victarion/Euron-showdon, with Vicki being Moquorro's puppet and Euron being Pryat's. I love it.

Who can say what the Qartheen warlocks can do when they powers grew stronger still? I'd imply that they could enthrall Euron magically without actually impersonating him - and without him realizing it. I'm pretty sure he did overpower them back when he captured their ship, but from the Alchemists in KL we know that magic becomes slowly more powerful in Westeros as well as in Essos since the dragons are back (their physical presence has nothing to do with that, else the wildfire spells and the Thoros' resurrection stuff should not have worked). Back when Euron captured the Qartheens their magic may still have been relatively weak. But what about now...? The Undying could still do pretty potent stuff while magic was declining.

I could see it.

And the real important thing from the App is that Euron got Dragonbinder from the warlocks. The horn may be originally Valyrian, but it's very likely now that the Qartheen captured it during one of their ancient wars with Valyria, and it may have been an instrument to enslave dragons when it was originally made by the Valyrians. But who is to say that the Qartheen Undying had not messed with it ages ago, turning it from a dragonbinding instrument into a tool to destroy dragons?

But why would the warlocks want to kill the dragons? Their presence makes the magic stronger. Seems to me like they are more useful alive to the warlocks. Surely, getting revenge on Dany can be accomplished at a lower cost.

We all expect that Victarion's great dragonbinding moment will somew backfire, especially since the battle seems to go so well for team Dany, so what is if the Dragonbinder drives every dragon mad who hears it sound? Thus he would turn against his rider in a war with the Qartheen, neutralizing the Valyrian dragons as a threat...

Even if that's not the case, the chances that the warlocks have messed with the horn strongly suggests that it will do whatever Euron/the warlocks want, not necessarily want Victarion/Moqorro are expecting...

Honestly, the knowledge that dragonbinder came from the warlocks makes me even more suspicious of its efficiency. I don't doubt that their magic is very powerful now, but if that particular piece of equipment worked, why didn't they just use it when they had knidnapped the dragons back in Quarth? What would they have needed Dany for?

Then again, maybe they just hadn't figured out how to operate the horn at that point and have made significant progress by now.

So I could see the horn either accomplishing shit all (especially if Moquorro is able to fuck with it as well; I don't think he'd want Vicki to steal one of Dany's dragons), or it's indeed going to make one of the dragons hightail it out of Essos and fly straight to Euron. I don't think it would kill the dragon though, for reasons already explained above. Driving the dragons mad and making them more vulnerable to other people attacking them however is also a plausible possiblity. I think the Tyrion chapter has some forshadowing that Rhaegal will get injured (the white dragon Chevasse figure falling at his feet, into a poodle of blood) and maybe that's how this happens.

It's also difficult to decide whether 'normal Euron' would dream such elaborate/ambitious dreams as conquering all of Westeros. Nor should we easily imagine that Euron had it him to murder his elder brother Balon. That's a pretty nasty thing, and although I know that Euron is no nice guy, it's difficult to judge whether he was such piece of shit back when he still lived on the isles.

Nah, that's totally in line with Euron's general psychopathy. Don't forget him "seducing" Victarion's wife knowing full well how Victarion would react and all those hints in Aeron's POV chapters about Euron abusing his little brother(s).

But I agree that Euron probably wouldn't be so amibitious if he didn't have some hidden trump card to back up his megalomania. And that trump card might well be the warlocks of Qarth and whatever access to supernatural forces they can provide. I don't think his designs on the Iron Throne are unrealistic at all. Whether already mind-controlled by Pryat or not, Euron probably knows what he is doing.

I once entertained the idea that Euron may marry Cersei to form an alliance with her against King Aegon and/or the Tyrells. Cersei's only hope for retribution/survival/payback also rests firmly on Qyburn and black magic, which should make the ideal basis for an alliance with Euron and the warlocks. GRRM has always indicated that magic is going to become more and more important. Not just is stuff connected to the Others and the dragons, but also in 'normal warfare' and day-to-day life...

Euron and Cersei are a match made in hell; I could totally see it. And what delicious irony it would be! Remember that time in ACOK when Tywin proposed this match and Cersei couldn't have been more disgusted? I had the most drawn out argument recently in a general Euron-thread with someone who was convinced that Cersei would never be up for it for this very reason, but let's be real here: she totally would. Especially once the Tyrell alliance is in smithereens, she has lost King's Landing and all her Frey allies are dead.

And Casterly Rock would be such a great place for an Euron/Aeron showdown for instance. Aeron was imprisoned there for a while after all and there are some hints about creepy things in those caves.

But apart from the creepy-magic love connection, it just makes political sense. Both Cersei and Euron could use an ally and both are too toxic to be considered by anyone else at this point. Maybe Littlefinger could play the matchmaker? I've long thought he's somehow in cahoots with Euron anyway, since Euron was the most immediate beneficient of his vendetta against the Starks.

Speaking about that, I'm not so sure that Euron will be able to take Oldtown after he has crushed the Redwyne fleet. There are too many hints that Lord Leyton Hightower and the Mad Maid are actually dabbling with sorcery, so they could actually have the skills to counter whatever spells the Qartheen warlocks have in store. Especially if they have access Valyrian glass candles (which is very likely).

I'm with you, I think the Hightowers have gotten to much build-up to fall victim to Euron before they get a chance to become prominent players in the game. I think the Oldtown-situation might end up very inconclusive - potentially with the Ironborn driven off by Aegon (which would probably make the Hightowers switch to his side). But both Hightowers and Euron might come out of it fairly unscathed.

Alternatively Euron might not go for Oldtown after all and lay siege to High Garden instead.

I absolutely agree with the main gist of your argument - Euron's poised to be one of the endlevel bosses, probably the biggest threat to Dany and he might well end up on the Iron Throne itself for a while (Martin has stated it will see a couple of asses yet before all is said and done; I predict Tommen - Myrcella - Aegon - Dany - Euron - ?????)

I am however completely clueless about Euron's role in the Second Dance. Is he going to side with Aegon or Dany or take on both or somehow sit it out? Quite a few people think that Aegon will solve that nasty Ironborn problem for the Reach and that's how he'll win the hearts and minds of Westeros and get most of those Reach lords to deflect. I could see it happening, but even so, I think he would mostly just be able to drive off Euron to go bother someone else for a while. I really don't think Euron would get killed in the process. He's going to survive this round.

Some people think Euron might (ostensibly/temporarily) ally with Dany - he has sent her a fleet, after all and some speculate he might be one of the bridegrooms in Dany's visions. I think it's unlikely - those Ironborn are mostly loyal to Vicki, not necessarily to him; if Vicki makes it back to Westeros in one piece, he would probably turn against Euron. I think Euron never planned for Vicki to return and if he actually does, thanks to Moquorro's interventions, as a member of Dany's entourage, that would surely place Dany and Euron very much at odds. Also, if Euron actually manages to steal one of Dany's dragons with the horn, any potential later alliance seems highly implausible.

Nobody ever seems to consider the possiblity that Euron might (ostensibly/temporarily) ally with Aegon - it would be too much of a P.R. disaster for both (Euron can hardly even gesture towards bending the knee to a potential new Targaryan king without completely losing credibility with his men, and Aegon could kiss his potential Faith-of-the-Seven-support goodbye). But I could see them essentially staying out of each other's way after some preliminary skirmishes. Aegon might successfully drive Euron away from the Reach but I don't think he'll chase him back to the Iron Isles - he'll probably be already too distracted by Dany's arrival. At that point, Euron might be happy enough to let those two hug it out and prepare himself to swoop in after the slaugther to pick up the pieces.

[Malcolm of House Tucker]

I don't get why people think the Dragonbinder horn is going to either not work or backfire. Yeah, there is the Euron's gifts are poisoned line, but why would Euron send Victarion and the elite fighting force of the his people all the way across the world just to get torched?

Sure, I do believe that Euron is the maddest of the Greyjoy brothers, but even he isn't stupid enough to send away and doom that large chunk of martial strength just to rid himself of the potential of Victarion murdering him. That's a move only Cersei would be capable of.

The horn will work and cause a dragon or two to become enslaved by somebody. Either Moqorro is helping Victarion to gain control over the dragon(s) or Euron and the warlocks worked some sorcery to enable the dragon to bond with Euron when the horn is blown.

Dragonbinder has to work, or else Euron being the greatest threat to Dany is just a massive joke. Because if the horn is bullshit, then Euron is literally nothing to Dany, him being all the way in the Reach while Dany continues to piss away her time and my patience in Essos.

All that said, I do like the fact that maybe Euron and the warlocks are working together. It actually gives his menacing insanity some credibility now. I still think that Euron hired a Faceless Man to kill his brother, perhaps the same Faceless Man that is now in Oldtown (Jaqen), the city that Euron seems destined to besiege quite soon. Could Jaqen be there on his orders, to acquire knowledge on dragons?

[MyaStoned]

For anyone who thinks Pyat Pree in particular is going to have some important story role, I believe the show had him killed.

[Carey Snow]

For anyone who thinks Pyat Pree in particular is going to have some important story role, I believe the show had him killed.

You can not go by the show. Also, Martin has stated that Pyat shows up again. So he does something, rather or not it is important is impossible to know.

[NotSoSilentSister]

I don't get why people think the Dragonbinder horn is going to either not work or backfire. Yeah, there is the Euron's gifts are poisoned line, but why would Euron send Victarion and the elite fighting force of the his people all the way across the world just to get torched?

Because Victarion is the biggest internal threat to Euron's rule and he has the loyality of the a majority of the Iron Fleet. Getting rid of Victarion and Victarion-loyalists must be worth quite a bit to Euron. For what it's worth, I don't think that all those ships Victarion lost in storms on his way to Essos are actually lost. I think those are the ships captained by Ironmen who are loyal to Euron rather than Victarion and that they had special orders to hang back. Everyone who is still with Victarion at this point is probably someone Euron would rather be rid off.

Sure, I do believe that Euron is the maddest of the Greyjoy brothers, but even he isn't stupid enough to send away and doom that large chunk of martial strength just to rid himself of the potential of Victarion murdering him. That's a move only Cersei would be capable of.

There are no hints at all that Euron would have any qualms about sacrificing his own people. He didn't think twice about sacrificing the Ironborn still in the North and those guys he gave the Shield Islands to.... let's just say I'd be surprised if Euron cared whether they could actually hold them or not.

I think Euron is just being realistic about the fact that the largest part of the Iron Fleet effectively belongs to Victarion and that Victarion will never be a particularly reliable subject in his service. I think those who could be realistically won over to Euron's side have already defected (=been lost in "storms").

The horn will work and cause a dragon or two to become enslaved by somebody. Either Moqorro is helping Victarion to gain control over the dragon(s)

Very unlikely. Moquorro's team Dany.

or Euron and the warlocks worked some sorcery to enable the dragon to bond with Euron when the horn is blown.

Possible. But again, the warlocks couldn't do it back in Quarth when they had the opportunity to use the horn for their own purposes, so I'm still dubious.

Dragonbinder has to work, or else Euron being the greatest threat to Dany is just a massive joke. Because if the horn is bullshit, then Euron is literally nothing to Dany, him being all the way in the Reach while Dany continues to piss away her time and my patience in Essos.

Your patience, maybe, but not mine. I don't think Dany and Euron will clash in Winds (because of logistics, because Dany will have to deal with Aegon first - we know there's going to be a second dance, and if it's between Euron and Dany, than Aegon would be a massive joke, no? One of the main reasons why I don't think Euron will get hold of a dragon quite yet.) But there'll be time enough for that in Dreams of Spring. At this point, Euron might well have access to magic of compareable force via the warlocks/whatever his little excursion to Oldtown might gain him.

I do think the horn might do _something_ - but it might be as simple as disturbing/distracting/neutralizing the dragons rather than killing or enslaving them.