Theon I: How did Theon recognize that voice?

[Ser_Cortnay_Penrose]

On the first page of Theon I:

"Theon twisted in his chains. He knew that voice. Stannis. "

When did Theon Greyjoy ever meet Stannis Baratheon? Not trying to obnoxiously point out some perceived error but I was just re-reading and this jumped out at me. Feel like I'm missing something obvious but can't find anything. Thanks!

[Universal Sword Donor]

On the first page of Theon I:

"Theon twisted in his chains. He knew that voice. Stannis. "

When did Theon Greyjoy ever meet Stannis Baratheon? Not trying to obnoxiously point out some perceived error but I was just re-reading and this jumped out at me. Feel like I'm missing something obvious but can't find anything. Thanks!

We don't know. That particular chapter is from WoW. He could well hear him in a Stannis' POV chapter, an Asha POV chapter, or the prologue..

[Nyrhex]

Probably met before AGOT. The characters moved around in the past 9 years since Theon became a Stark ward. A wedding of some noble, or something. Manderly can't remember Stannis in the North before, so somewhere in the Riverlands or in the Vale probably.

Or simpler yet, they met while Ned and Theon took a ride with the Royal Navy to return North.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Two hours earlier. Theon wasn't teleported there, someone chained him up in Stannis' throne room. It's indeed likely that they met :cool4:

[Nyrhex]

Two hours earlier. Theon wasn't teleported there, someone chained him up in Stannis' throne room. It's indeed likely that they met :cool4:

From Theon's response, it seems that he only now learned that Stannis is the one holding him.

[Fallout Dude]

Probably after the siege of Pyke.

[Skinchanging Sweetrobin]

That is really weird. Theon has a horrible memory and is really bad at recognition. As we all know, he forgets what his sister looks like.

And that's not just a passing event to allow for some creepy brother on sister action. Asha doesn't recognize Theon when he makes it to Stannis' camp. The tables are turned. Recognition is a theme with Theon.

Now, we know Stannis helped crush Balon's rebellion. And Stannis may have met Theon as a boy when Balon bent the knee.

Still, to recognize a voice after a decade?!?!?! When its already established that the character has a bad memory?

I think something has unlocked inside Theon's head.

[The Holy Goat]

Probably when Stannis and his men grabbed Theon and chained him to the tower wall. That's the simplest most obvious explaination there is, so that's what I'm gonna go with.

[Syrio the Dancer]

That is really weird. Theon has a horrible memory and is really bad at recognition. As we all know, he forgets what his sister looks like.

And that's not just a passing event to allow for some creepy brother on sister action. Asha doesn't recognize Theon when he makes it to Stannis' camp. The tables are turned. Recognition is a theme with Theon.

Now, we know Stannis helped crush Balon's rebellion. And Stannis may have met Theon as a boy when Balon bent the knee.

Still, to recognize a voice after a decade?!?!?! When its already established that the character has a bad memory?

I think something has unlocked inside Theon's head.

When Theon an Asha parted way after Balon's rebellion they were children, when they meet again, They are adults. Stannis on the other hand didn't change much.

[Lord Spark of House Spark]

Stannis was responsible more than any other commander for smashing his father's rebellion, so he probably made some impression on him

[Metopheles]

Ah wasn't the Sacrifice chapter of Asha, the one where she meets Theon, with Stannis ? So Theon meets him there, and then in the new Theon chapter, which plays before the pink letter, Theon heard Stannis and remembers him.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

In my opinion book Stannis has a unique voice (or at least vocabulary and inflections that differ from most) that can be easily recognized once you've heard it. Can't speak for show Stannis as I haven't seen him yet.

[HannibalStark]

We get a random chapter not knowing what exact events happened before it. Though its possible, but I doubt it, he could have met Stannis previously...even at, during or right after the siege of Pyke, and being taken as a ward with Ned, Ned being with Robert most likely would have also had a good chance of being with Stannis...this is "possible" but not the simplest answer.

Theon wasn't all of a sudden found chained to the room Stannis was in. I would imagine that the people that found Theon would have brought him and Jeyne directly to Stannis straight away....I would think it is likely Stannis told those people what he wanted done with him. It doesn't make sense Theon is all of a sudden found chained in a room Stannis is in without ever having heard his voice previously.

[HannibalStark]

When Theon an Asha parted way after Balon's rebellion they were children, when they meet again, They are adults. Stannis on the other hand didn't change much.

I agree, if Theon happened to meet Stannis in Pyke, he would look and sound the same years later....compared to a child yet to have grown into a woman yet. Plus Theon is an arrogant bastard, the way Asha approached him, she purposely f'ed with him. I don't think it has anything to do with his memory I think it is about what he wants to see....he sees a 'woman' not the fat little sister he remembered approach him the way she did.

After he saw he wasn't greeted with the pomp and circumstance he thought he deserved he figured no one came so then he wasn't expecting her.....vs. being captured and brought to someone close to and about to siege Winterfell, if Theon HAD heard Stannis' voice before, he would be expecting to hear it after he was captured.

[Harold II]

Occam's razor tells us Theon has heard Stannis about camp in the few hours prior, during or after being chained to the wall.

[Skinchanging Sweetrobin]

I agree, if Theon happened to meet Stannis in Pyke, he would look and sound the same years later....compared to a child yet to have grown into a woman yet. Plus Theon is an arrogant bastard, the way Asha approached him, she purposely f'ed with him. I don't think it has anything to do with his memory I think it is about what he wants to see....he sees a 'woman' not the fat little sister he remembered approach him the way she did.

After he saw he wasn't greeted with the pomp and circumstance he thought he deserved he figured no one came so then he wasn't expecting her.....vs. being captured and brought to someone close to and about to siege Winterfell, if Theon HAD heard Stannis' voice before, he would be expecting to hear it after he was captured.

Except, you forget that Asha recognized Theon.

Shouldn't the two have equal chance of recognizing each other? Weren't both children, now grown?

But Asha isn't an isolated incident.

Theon clearly has a bad memory.

Hother Umber also recognizes Theon, but Theon does not recognize Hother Umber when they meet at the Dreadfort. Theon also doesn't recognize Arnolf Karstark (Karstark has trouble recognizing Theon because of Theon's tortured state, but does eventually):

The second lord, the straight-backed old man in the mail byrnie, studied Reek with flinty eyes. "Look again," he urged the other lord. "His hair's gone white and he is three stone thinner, aye, but this is no serving man. Have you forgotten?"

The crookback lord looked again and gave a sudden snort. "Him?

"Can it be? Stark's ward. Smiling, always smiling." (Reek I, ADwD)

And there's this incident with a guard, right before Theon's escape from Winterfell:

“Who goes there?” one called out. Theon did not recognize the voice. Most of the man’s features were covered by the scarf about his face. Only his eyes could be seen. “Reek, is that you?”

Yes, he meant to say. Instead he heard himself reply, “Theon Greyjoy. I ... I have brought some women for you.”

(Theon I, ADwD)

So, that's four people (Asha, Hother Umber, Arnolf Karstark and a guard from Winterfell) who recognized Theon, but who Theon didn't recognize.

But after the escape. There is an inversion: Asha doesn't recognize Theon, but Theon can recognize Asha.

A girl and an old man, thought Asha, as the two were dumped rudely in the snow before her. The girl was shivering violently, even in her furs. If she had not been so frightened, she might even have been pretty, though the tip of her nose was black with frostbite. The old man ... no one would ever think him comely. She had seen scarecrows with more flesh. His face was a skull with skin, his hair bone-white and filthy. And he stank. Just the sight of him filled Asha with revulsion.

He raised his eyes. "Sister. See. This time I knew you." (The Sacrfice, ADwD)

And now recognizing a voice from years and years in one's past?

Normally, I would say the line means nothing, but Theon's memory is a reoccurring theme. Theon has changed.

[HannibalStark]

Except, you forget that Asha recognized Theon.

Shouldn't the two have equal chance of recognizing each other? Weren't both children, now grown?

But Asha isn't an isolated incident.

Theon clearly has a bad memory.

Hother Umber also recognizes Theon, but Theon does not recognize Hother Umber when they meet at the Dreadfort. Theon also doesn't recognize Arnolf Karstark (Karstark has trouble recognizing Theon because of Theon's tortured state, but does eventually):

The second lord, the straight-backed old man in the mail byrnie, studied Reek with flinty eyes. "Look again," he urged the other lord. "His hair's gone white and he is three stone thinner, aye, but this is no serving man. Have you forgotten?"

The crookback lord looked again and gave a sudden snort. "Him?

"Can it be? Stark's ward. Smiling, always smiling." (Reek I, ADwD)

And there's this incident with a guard, right before Theon's escape from Winterfell:

“Who goes there?” one called out. Theon did not recognize the voice. Most of the man’s features were covered by the scarf about his face. Only his eyes could be seen. “Reek, is that you?”

Yes, he meant to say. Instead he heard himself reply, “Theon Greyjoy. I ... I have brought some women for you.”

(Theon I, ADwD)

So, that's four people (Asha, Hother Umber, Arnolf Karstark and a guard from Winterfell) who recognized Theon, but who Theon didn't recognize.

But after the escape. There is an inversion: Asha doesn't recognize Theon, but Theon can recognize Asha.

A girl and an old man, thought Asha, as the two were dumped rudely in the snow before her. The girl was shivering violently, even in her furs. If she had not been so frightened, she might even have been pretty, though the tip of her nose was black with frostbite. The old man ... no one would ever think him comely. She had seen scarecrows with more flesh. His face was a skull with skin, his hair bone-white and filthy. And he stank. Just the sight of him filled Asha with revulsion.

He raised his eyes. "Sister. See. This time I knew you." (The Sacrfice, ADwD)

And now recognizing a voice from years and years in one's past?

Normally, I would say the line means nothing, but Theon's memory is a reoccurring theme. Theon has changed.

except I don't actually think Theon met Stannis in Pyke, I am just saying that he could have..that it was possible...and that it might have made a sorta big impression on him, but either way I could care less about his "memory" or lack there of....its actually moot because I am pretty sure Theon recongnized Stannis' voice because he was brought to him straight off, before being chained up.

So to be clear...I am saying Theon is "remembering" something from a day of two ago....not from when he was a kid. (just that its not an impossibility he met him when he was a kid) but definitely not that it was a mistake by Martin, since there are more than one way Theon could have recognized Stannis' voice.

so maybe this loosing of Theon's memory begins to happen when he begins to loose himself? Most of it I think is just arrogance and only caring about himself, but once he leaves Robb and is on his way to Pyke he is already beginning to think of himself as this great ruler who will be a great conqueror. He looses himself more when his 'father' and then Ramsey have their fun with him.

[ctid1977]

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Greyjoy_Rebellion

Stannis Smashed the Iron Fleet. He'd probably remember that voice.

[Skinchanging Sweetrobin]

except I don't actually think Theon met Stannis in Pyke, I am just saying that he could have..that it was possible...and that it might have made a sorta big impression on him, but either way I could care less about his "memory" or lack there of....its actually moot because I am pretty sure Theon recongnized Stannis' voice because he was brought to him straight off, before being chained up.

So to be clear...I am saying Theon is "remembering" something from a day of two ago....not from when he was a kid. (just that its not an impossibility he met him when he was a kid) but definitely not that it was a mistake by Martin, since there are more than one way Theon could have recognized Stannis' voice.

so maybe this loosing of Theon's memory begins to happen when he begins to loose himself? Most of it I think is just arrogance and only caring about himself, but once he leaves Robb and is on his way to Pyke he is already beginning to think of himself as this great ruler who will be a great conqueror. He looses himself more when his 'father' and then Ramsey have their fun with him.

Yes, that is the simplest and most logically explanation: he met Stannis earlier that day and recognizes his voice.

But....

The language is a little weird for that, isn't it?

"He knew that voice. Stannis."

Doesn't that sound like a deep recollection?

And if it is deep recollection, that's a running theme and something Theon was uncannily bad at.

But, now, he's uncannily good at it.

It's weird.

[HannibalStark]

Yes, that is the simplest and most logically explanation: he met Stannis earlier that day and recognizes his voice.

But....

The language is a little weird for that, isn't it?

"He knew that voice. Stannis."

Doesn't that sound like a deep recollection?

And if it is deep recollection, that's a running theme and something Theon was uncannily bad at.

But, now, he's uncannily good at it.

It's weird.

I think the way it is written is perfect....because I am sure STANNIS, and what he is going to do with him is at the forefront of Reek (or is it Theon again) 's mind. He just got away from the sheer terror of Ramsey and into the hands of a new captor not knowing what is going to happen. Stannis is his new 'master' and just as he would know Ramsey's voice, hanging on what he was going to say...because it could mean his ass or skin or...(well I guess that can only be taken once) but he knows the voice because what comes out of Stannis' mouth next might determine Reek's fate. I would KNOW the voice of my captor/master.

The more I think about it the more I find it actually brilliant and considering Theon's mindset and what he just went through, came from, escaped from...I think its bloody genius to bring attention to Theon knowing Stannis' voice as something being unusual. More than any other character Theon's fate was dependent on the sadistic and maniacal whims of a monster...he literally probably shit himself each time Ramsey opened his mouth, not knowing what was going to happen next.

So yes, I think its unusual how he mentions Theon recognizing his voice, but I don't think it for the reasons you are saying....I think Reek has been terrorized so much, "KNOWING" the voice of his new master (or the person who will determine his fate) isn't something Theon is going to mistake.