Stannis or Euron: Who is the better naval commander?

[Lord Reaver]

I don't think Euron had any significant comman positions before AFFC. Probably just captained a ship and sat on Balon's council

We know he planned the Lannister attack.

[Ramsay Gimp]

We know he planned the Lannister attack.

I know, but he didn't command or lead it. Like I said, he probably counseled Balon who then gave the task to Victarion

[Lord Reaver]

I know, but he didn't command or lead it. Like I said, he probably counseled Balon who then gave the task to Victarion

Yes, he did, actually: “During my lord father’s rebellion, he sailed into Lannisport with my uncle Euron and burned the Lannister fleet where it lay at anchor,” Theon recal ed. “The plan was Euron’s, though. Victarion is like some great grey bullock, strong and tireless and dutiful, but not like to win any races."

Euron and Victarion both commanded the fleet that attacked Lannisport, but the plan was Euron's. Vic just got the honor of torching Tywin's flagship.

[Ürglõvi]

Just like Stannis have the red woman.

As I said, a god who controls winds might be a bit more useful in naval battle than one who makes pretty fires. (Though that turned out pretty well at Blackwater, only for the wrong side.)

[Stormland's Fury]

As I said, a god who controls winds might be a bit more useful in naval battle than one who makes pretty fires. (Though that turned out pretty well at Blackwater, only for the wrong side.)

It's also handy to get rid of little brothers or pesky opposing kings.

[Stormland's Fury]

Yes, he did, actually: “During my lord father’s rebellion, he sailed into Lannisport with my uncle Euron and burned the Lannister fleet where it lay at anchor,” Theon recal ed. “The plan was Euron’s, though. Victarion is like some great grey bullock, strong and tireless and dutiful, but not like to win any races."

Euron and Victarion both commanded the fleet that attacked Lannisport, but the plan was Euron's. Vic just got the honor of torching Tywin's flagship.

Well at least we know now that he must have been at Lannisport. But that would have meant he was part of the iron fleet or at least with them when the Royal Fleet arrived.

I swear Euron is just one big question mark.

[Lord Reaver]

But that would have meant he was part of the iron fleet or at least with them when the Royal Fleet arrived.

Would it ? I can't recall having seen a detailed timeline (I suspect one doesn't exist, even in GRRM's head) of the first Greyjoy rebellion. All we (I) know is that the Lannister sack happened before Fair Isle, but not how long.

And I think the battle of Seaguard was between the two, so the fleet may have split: The Iron Fleet went down to Fair isle while the rest of the ships went to Seagard.

ETA: The wiki says there were also many smaller raids, Euron could have led one of these. Can't find any references to text though, and too sleepy right now to trawl through books.

[Ramsay Gimp]

Yes, he did, actually: “During my lord father’s rebellion, he sailed into Lannisport with my uncle Euron and burned the Lannister fleet where it lay at anchor,” Theon recal ed. “The plan was Euron’s, though. Victarion is like some great grey bullock, strong and tireless and dutiful, but not like to win any races."

Euron and Victarion both commanded the fleet that attacked Lannisport, but the plan was Euron's. Vic just got the honor of torching Tywin's flagship.

So he was subordinate to Victarion? I recall Vic getting the credit for actually leading the attack, and Euron for planning it

[Ürglõvi]

It's also handy to get rid of little brothers or pesky opposing kings.

Now are you talking about Stannis or Euron? Both are quite efficient in that regard and of course magic religion helps :D

[Lord Reaver]

So he was subordinate to Victarion? I recall Vic getting the credit for actually leading the attack, and Euron for planning it

Well, Vic himself takes credit for leading the attack in his speech before the Kingsmoot. But yes, he was the commander of the Iron Fleet, and it being the backbone of the Ironborn fleet, he likely was the one actually leading it.

I don't know about "subordinate", Theon sounds as if they were fairly equal, but if one had to be subordinate to the other, then yes, I'd say Euron was, for the actual attack.

[Stormland's Fury]

Would it ? I can't recall having seen a detailed timeline (I suspect one doesn't exist, even in GRRM's head) of the first Greyjoy rebellion. All we (I) know is that the Lannister sack happened before Fair Isle, but not how long.

And I think the battle of Seaguard was between the two, so the fleet may have split: The Iron Fleet went down to Fair isle while the rest of the ships went to Seagard.

ETA: The wiki says there were also many smaller raids, Euron could have led one of these. Can't find any references to text though, and too sleepy right now to trawl through books.

That's true but Euron must have at least been between Lannisport and the Iron Islands for some time. But you're right we have no timeline, but I can imagine that the Redwyne fleet was already on it's way as soon news hit the rest of the realm (the royal one too but they are on the other side of Westeros). Yes, Lannisport was the initial attack and Fair Ilse happened after that, but I can't think of a reason why the Iron Fleet should hang around too long in Lannisport, they never landed there as far we know or did they? I can't see them being able to fight a ground battle so close to Casterly Rock and neiter the IB nor the Lannisters mention any major fighting IIRC.

I am also sleepy, so not on top of things, but I assumed Rodrik Greyjoy took his part of the Greyjoy (the house) Fleet and attacked Seagard, maybe with auxiliary forces from several bannermen. And Vic had control of the whole Iron Fleet in the south. I could be wrong though.

[Stormland's Fury]

Now are you talking about Stannis or Euron? Both are quite efficient in that regard and of course magic religion helps :D

Haha, I was actually meaning Stannis. Euron got rid of his older brother though if the theories are through.

Or Balon could have been victim of a joint effort of Stannis burning a leech and Euron hiring a Faceless Man ;)

[Stormland's Fury]

Well, Vic himself takes credit for leading the attack in his speech before the Kingsmoot. But yes, he was the commander of the Iron Fleet, and it being the backbone of the Ironborn fleet, he likely was the one actually leading it.

Furthermore it's clear that the Lannisters are blaming him not Euron. Tyrion said "uncles" but that could also include Aeron.

[Lord Reaver]

Or Balon could have been victim of a joint effort of Stannis burning a leech and Euron hiring a Faceless Man ;)

Or just a freak accident, or as Aeron thinks, the Storm God's wrath. :P

[Lord Reaver]

Furthermore it's clear that the Lannisters are blaming him not Euron. Tyrion said "uncles" but that could also include Aeron.

Eh ? I don't recall this...mind shooting me a reference ?

[Stormland's Fury]

Eh ? I don't recall this...mind shooting me a reference ?

I think it might be time for bed, I confused it with the damn show where Tyrion mentions this to Theon in Winterfell.

Read a post that speculates what Grejoys will appear on the show and mixed it up.

This might be in the books, but don't have them at hand right now.

[Barty]

Euron has more experience at sea - he has spent his entire life reaving, on a boat. He also has a good head for tactics as seen by his plans for the Lannister fleet and the Shield islands. Stannis however has more experience being in overall command of a large force. He was Robert's Master of the Ships and has more experience in battle(as opposed to Euron's experience in reaving).

I see Euron being much better at hit and run attacks using small, fast and maneuverable ships while in a pitched battle Stannis takes the crown. Though if Euron manages to beat the RedWyne fleet coming for him, I'd probably change my mind. A big factor against Stannis is the loss at the BW - he had complete naval superiority and he lost it in his haste to send in his ships and land troops - Imry Florent might have commanded the navy but Stannis takes the blame because he is overall commander and he was the one who put the idiot in charge of his fleet in the first place.

[Stormland's Fury]

Euron has more experience at sea - he has spent his entire life reaving, on a boat. He also has a good head for tactics as seen by his plans for the Lannister fleet and the Shield islands. Stannis however has more experience being in overall command of a large force. He was Robert's Master of the Ships and has more experience in battle(as opposed to Euron's experience in reaving).

I see Euron being much better at hit and run attacks using small, fast and maneuverable ships while in a pitched battle Stannis takes the crown. Though if Euron manages to beat the RedWyne fleet coming for him, I'd probably change my mind. A big factor against Stannis is the loss at the BW - he had complete naval superiority and he lost it in his haste to send in his ships and land troops - Imry Florent might have commanded the navy but Stannis takes the blame because he is overall commander and he was the one who put the idiot in charge of his fleet in the first place.

The appointment of Imry is what baffles me because A) Stannis is not known for nepotism, at least not when it can be helped B ) what does a Florent know about naval battles? C) he probably should have known that his in-law is a buffoon

Giving him a command of one ship or a squadron would have been ok, but the whole fleet, especially when it's so instrumental to the success of the battle is just mindboggling.