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Significance of the deaths of Steffon and Cassana Baratheon?


Natasi

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I find it weird that Casanna have to go on this mission as well, and leave baby Renly. Surely Steffon could've handled this by himself...

Also, what if it was just a fool's errand? Varys talked Aerys into sending Lord Baratheon and his lady wife away for sometime, taking advantage of the Mad King's paranoia (if they heard whispers of the "southron ambitions").

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to be honest I'm much more fond of "they were looking for a Blackfyre" part of the theory than of "they found her and so they were murdered" part. Also, Baratheons has only Sons, so they would not get offended - and if they had a daugter she would probably qualify as "dragon enough" in Aerys eyes.


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The Baratheons would be no problem because it seems Steffon was the only one, married already and Aerys' first cousin.

I don't think a Rhaegar-Steffon marriage would have ended well anyway. Importantly though, he had no daughters. So Aerys didn't have to worry about him being passed over. Certainly Tywin (was he still hand?) had other plans for Rhaegar's marriage.

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I find it weird that Casanna have to go on this mission as well, and leave baby Renly. Surely Steffon could've handled this by himself...

Also, what if it was just a fool's errand? Varys talked Aerys into sending Lord Baratheon and his lady wife away for sometime, taking advantage of the Mad King's paranoia (if they heard whispers of the "southron ambitions").

Wasn't Aerys still sane at that point? I could be wrong though.

But it is weird that she went along.

to be honest I'm much more fond of "they were looking for a Blackfyre" part of the theory than of "they found her and so they were murdered" part. Also, Baratheons has only Sons, so they would not get offended - and if they had a daugter she would probably qualify as "dragon enough" in Aerys eyes.

If the Baratheons had a daughter I bet Aerys would Rhaegar marry to her, because of the dragon blood and family history alone. I was just saying that Steffon was close enough to Aerys and had no reason to protest compared to other high nobles.

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Wasn't Aerys still sane at that point? I could be wrong though.

But it is weird that she went along.

This was before Duskendale, so while he may not have been sane, he had not been consumed by paranoia yet.

EDIT: nevermind. It was after Duskendale, so he was already visibly mad.

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I don't think a Rhaegar-Steffon marriage would have ended well anyway. Importantly though, he had no daughters. So Aerys didn't have to worry about him being passed over. Certainly Tywin (was he still hand?) had other plans for Rhaegar's marriage.

Haha, damn for a moment I thought of Cassandra as the Baratheon combined that I meant that Steffon wasn't of any use for Aerys in that regard either way. He had no sisters or daughters is teh important part ;)

I hope I didn't provide any fodder for Rhaegar-Steffon fanfic and theories now...

EDIT: Well, then it's hard to say what Aerys was up to in any case.

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I imagine Patchface surviving the whole story, getting rich and screwing everyone over. Revealing he was behind everything ever, then dropping the act and walk off like Doofy at the end of Scary Movie.

Patchface as Keyser Söze....I LIKE it!

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She was from Norvos, but don't remember if she had Valeryan blood.



In any case it was brilliant from Doran's side because he could marry and still be politically independent from the rest of Westeros (or his own liege lords). But didn't he marry for love? The thought of Aerys getting the idea from him his intriguing though.


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I've always had a pet theory that Aerys was relatively close to Steffon and his death removed the only high lord he felt he could trust, feeding into his paranoia.

I had that theory too, because I had the impression that Targs and Baratheons were always close until RR. Not only genetically, but also geographically and Orys was Aegon's best friend and Hand of the King.

Too bad there's so little info on House Baratheon and their interactions with the royal family.

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I reckon the fact that they were on a mission to find Rhaegar a bride is one of the reasons for Robert's hatred for him, and the Targs family as a whole. His parents die searching for a foreign bride for the prince, who then gets married to a girl from Westeros and then later disregards this wife and disappears with another girl, Robert's beloved fiancée no less.



That must have been a very bitter pill to swallow.


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I had that theory too, because I had the impression that Targs and Baratheons were always close until RR. Not only genetically, but also geographically and Orys was Aegon's best friend and Hand of the King.

Too bad there's so little info on House Baratheon and their interactions with the royal family.

Yeah I would say it takes a lot of trust for someone to be willing to let you select their son's potential brides. Plus it fits nicely within the context of Aerys' downfall.

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I reckon the fact that they were on a mission to find Rhaegar a bride is one of the reasons for Robert's hatred for him, and the Targs family as a whole. His parents die searching for a foreign bride for the prince, who then gets married to a girl from Westeros and then later disregards this wife and disappears with another girl, Robert's beloved fiancée no less.

That must have been a very bitter pill to swallow.

Nice one.

Robert never mentions it, but it could be a subconscious thing I guess. It seems Stannis is bitter about the incident, but seems not to harbor any particular hatred for the Targs.

Wasn't Stannis close to his mother's family btw? Some Estermonts were some of the only Stormlords that stayed loyal to him. Or was it just his uncle and cousin?

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Nice one.

Robert never mentions it, but it could be a subconscious thing I guess. It seems Stannis is bitter about the incident, but seems not to harbor any particular hatred for the Targs.

Wasn't Stannis close to his mother's family btw? Some Estermonts were some of the only Stormlords that stayed loyal to him. Or was it just his uncle and cousin?

I believe it was just his uncle and cousin. His grandfather(who has to be amazingly healthy for his age btw) was in the group of lords at the parlay with Ser Cortnay Penrose. Davos and Stannis both agree everyone in this group is a true traitor for supporting Renly so I'm pretty sure the house at least nominally supported Renly.

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I think it has been pointed out in other threads there might be something significant under the sea, somehow related to krakens (I mean literal krakens, not stupid Greytards). I don't know how this fits in with other theories, but I'm quite sure that krakens could easily cause a shipwreck.

It would subvert the irony of the Stormlord being killed by a storm though ;)

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I believe it was just his uncle and cousin. His grandfather(who has to be amazingly healthy for his age btw) was in the group of lords at the parlay with Ser Cortnay Penrose. Davos and Stannis both agree everyone in this group is a true traitor for supporting Renly so I'm pretty sure the house at least nominally supported Renly.

Yes you're right. But still it would be his mother's brother who joined him, abandoning his own family. That's very telling for a generally disliked guy like Stannis.

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I also think the idea that they may have been searching for a bride of Blackfyre lineage has some merit; to bring the estranged BF branch back into the fold would be a diplomatic coup, and possibly important for the bloodline, as Aerys may have seen it. After all, all the male Blackfyres were dead, but no doubt a few female ones were likely still alive.



Or yeah, perhaps that they were off looking for some Valyrian artifact (a dragon egg, the Blackfyre sword, or maybe the dragon horn Euron later captured)?



As for the ship's destruction, if it is not just a tragic accident...


The mere destruction of a ship is not so out of bounds in terms of magic; after all, Moquorro and Melisandre may have been able to transfer sacrifices by fire into favourable winds. This may be some sorcery that certain other groups or people are capable of.



However, I am more willing to consider a mundane potential explanation for the ship being destroyed on purpose - simple sabotage. You do not have to control the weather to destroy a ship at sea. Find a way to sabotage the mast or rudder and you might insure that the next big storm which hits the ship will sink it, since it cannot steer or something. Or perhaps a touch of oil and wildfire to torch the hull bottom when it is most under stress.



After all - the bay is called "Shipbreaker Bay", opposite "Storm's End" - the Baretheons no doubt know their own waters best, but those waters are clearly treacherous and stormy, so if a ship was going to sink (or be sunk), it is merely more likely that it happen there.



The parallel with this real-life incident may be notable:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Ship


Perhaps GRRM is also playing with us, making a subtle nod to not just this bit of history, but a wink at other works of fiction that deal with it (as possible sabotage)?







I reckon the fact that they were on a mission to find Rhaegar a bride is one of the reasons for Robert's hatred for him, and the Targs family as a whole. His parents die searching for a foreign bride for the prince, who then gets married to a girl from Westeros and then later disregards this wife and disappears with another girl, Robert's beloved fiancée no less.



That must have been a very bitter pill to swallow.






Yeah, no kidding.


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