Arya's next step

[blacken]

Because Arya said she was the lone wolf in AFFC and none of the other Stark children have said so. Jon also said that she would be hiding and killing during winter.

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I'm not saying that simply seeing one of her family members makes her a plot device but that saying that she needs to immediately leave and go see her siblings renders her a secondary character. This has been said of Arya even before she got to the FM. It's always she needs to go to them not they need to go to her. She needs to help them not they need to help her.

First bit just wanted to clarify that what I meant was as Arya was the only one who Ned said the wolf thing too of course she would be the only one to think of herself as the lone wolf. I imagine the others might conceive of themselves similarly if Ned had spoke to them about it. But even if not, Arya is just guessing that this is what Ned meant, she doesn't for sure she is the lone wolf, just assumes.

Re. the second part, I couldn't agree with you more. Would hate to see Arya get on the next boat to the Wall and just be Jon's little sister or something

[The Stags Man]

I see people comparing Arya to Batman or a cold blooded killer, but to me she is totally Judge Dredd.

[Mourneblade]

I see people comparing Arya to Batman or a cold blooded killer, but to me she is totally Judge Dredd.

That is actually a fair comparison.

[Uldra I]

She wasn't using her own face in the chapter and as far aw we know she doesn't know how to change back on her own. I can't see her going back to Westeros that way. IMO she goes back to the temple, tells them what "Arya" did when asked is possibly punished in some way then moves on to the next stage in her training even sooner that she would otherwise.

As to what that is, she still needs to learn some sorcery to change her face on her own and/or may spend some time learning from courtesans.

The kindly man did tell Arya she'd learn the art of glamours. Since the Black Pearl's appearance seems to waver, or flicker and flash in the candle light, I think she is glamoured and will teach Arya how.. at least the basics. Also, the kindly man said she'd lose her ability to speak as her next lesson. I think she'll be mute while she's with the Black Pearl. That would be a perfect situation for a courtesan to have a mute cupbearer. After all, the people who visit the Black Pearl would be at ease immediately about Arya being in the room where privacy was required. After she learns from all that, then I think she will have to go back to Westeros.

[Fjordgazer]

Hi! New to the forum, first post.

Regarding Arya not abiding by the laws of the FM and having to go rogue on them. At first i thought the same, they forgave her for Dareon, they are not likely to forgive a 2nd time especially if they don't want to stir the waters & bring attention to their organization.

But aren't we forgetting Jaqen H'gar here? Whether he's infiltrated in the Citadel (as has been theorised) or not, he was in Westeros with a certain purpose. And it wasn't killing Chiswyck and Weese. He killed them because he had to repay the deaths Arya prevented by saving his OWN ass. So it's not unheard of that FM kill for their own selfish purposes. Jaqen didn't even care what bad deeds Arya's enemies had made, as long as she named them.

[Brother Seamus]

Arya will be a - if not the primary - instrument of Stark justice and vengeance. That's not to say that, for an 11-12 yo girl, she's not traumatized and psychologically f'ed up. But she'll recover, to some extent; recover herself and her identity; and raise hell.

[Giorgio Corrado]

Hi! New to the forum, first post.

Regarding Arya not abiding by the laws of the FM and having to go rogue on them. At first i thought the same, they forgave her for Dareon, they are not likely to forgive a 2nd time especially if they don't want to stir the waters & bring attention to their organization.

But aren't we forgetting Jaqen H'gar here? Whether he's infiltrated in the Citadel (as has been theorised) or not, he was in Westeros with a certain purpose. And it wasn't killing Chiswyck and Weese. He killed them because he had to repay the deaths Arya prevented by saving his OWN ass. So it's not unheard of that FM kill for their own selfish purposes. Jaqen didn't even care what bad deeds Arya's enemies had made, as long as she named them.

Very true I don't see whay the FM would object to Arya killing giving the gift that are on her list after all when Arya saved the life of Jaqen H'gar and his companions JH told Arya that a man always pays his debts. JH offered to kill 3 men for Arya all she had to do was to name them.

[Crimson King]

Arya killed Dareon because she resented him. She resented him because of his personality, and because of his desertion from the Night's Watch, which her favourite brother Jon is part of. Justice was what led her to resent him, but personal resentment was the final motive. Likewise, justice was used as a rationalization after the fact, but before the killing her emotions and thoughts towards him involved more personal distaste than any actual need of justice, and the obvious cockiness and satisfaction she got from the kill show that the level of emotion associated to it was far beyond the disinterest usually expected from justice.

Ned said that the man who passes the sentence should swing the sword, and that no pleasure should be taken out of it. Arya is affected by justice, but passes the sentence on a personal level and enjoys swinging the sword. The separation between her sense of justice and her raw bloodlust is shady, and the interaction between the two is complex. This murder is not as simple as it seems.

[Uldra I]

Arya killed Dareon because she resented him. She resented him because of his personality, and because of his desertion from the Night's Watch, which her favourite brother Jon is part of. Justice was what led her to resent him, but personal resentment was the final motive. Likewise, justice was used as a rationalization after the fact, but before the killing her emotions and thoughts towards him involved more personal distaste than any actual need of justice, and the obvious cockiness and satisfaction she got from the kill show that the level of emotion associated to it was far beyond the disinterest usually expected from justice.

I think so too. Arya is one of my favorite characters because of this moral ambiguity she has. GRRM has made so many characters, actually all of the main characters have both good and bad. IIRC somewhere he said he did this intentionally because he is tired of the 'all good' vs 'all evil' trope used by most fantasy writers. He said he finds it more realistic when characters have both, just like people have good and bad in them.

Still, Arya is the one that really tugs my heart strings. Hope she doesn't become some dark, twisted assassin killing just because she can. :worried:

[Mourneblade]

Arya killed Dareon because she resented him. She resented him because of his personality, and because of his desertion from the Night's Watch, which her favourite brother Jon is part of. Justice was what led her to resent him, but personal resentment was the final motive. Likewise, justice was used as a rationalization after the fact, but before the killing her emotions and thoughts towards him involved more personal distaste than any actual need of justice, and the obvious cockiness and satisfaction she got from the kill show that the level of emotion associated to it was far beyond the disinterest usually expected from justice.

Ned said that the man who passes the sentence should swing the sword, and that no pleasure should be taken out of it. Arya is affected by justice, but passes the sentence on a personal level and enjoys swinging the sword. The separation between her sense of justice and her raw bloodlust is shady, and the interaction between the two is complex. This murder is not as simple as it seems.

I think you are taking it a bit too far. She does not just kill people she resents, or she would be killing a lot of people, but you are not wrong in that she personally justifies her killings, and takes some satisfaction in them.

I am hoping that is the whole point of her being in Braavos, skill set and some character development so that she does not become the heartless killer.

[ladyinblack]

I wish that I believed this. But if there was any chance of this I believe we'd of heard of meryn being pretty damn injured or something of the sort. The only theory where her running into him again would be if syrio is jaqen h'gar himself. Then maybe she will see him again.

Yea, the bravosi are gonna be so pissed....totally a man whose an envoy for a king that spots in bravos' face by refusing to pay and has a super brutal no body guard who is an 11year old rapist who seems only to speak bravosi and is a mummer. Tell me who would you believe ? What skills does she have that's out of place and that's common knowledge to her fellow mummers? Sure raffs partner heard her speak westerosi and offer herself but the bravos by way of the iron bank already find these people suspect. They'd think he's prolly making it up and what's raff doing In a very little girls room who has no teats? If anything it looks like self defense.

Yea it will probably cause a mess but will it appear that an FM made raff disappear? And how the hell will they come to that conclusion. He is just going to disappear I believe the quote was "get him in the canal and the eels will do the rest" whose to say he didn't kidnap mercy and go find his own black pearl or leave bravos. No, I got to say bravos IMO is prolly planning to kill these men anyway or atleast to spit in their faces in a metaphorical sense

If the faceless men want to put her to death for this it seems very dumb. For all we know they may think him of many faces brought him to bravos and put her in that play to see him and give him mercy.

No chance they'd kill her for killing raff that's what they do.

Dareon is one thing but raff is another, dareon she never knew previously but raff personally caused her pain and suffering I personally think if kindly man knew a man from her prayer was coming to the city and she was to see him he'd expect her to do so. She will give everything she is to the many faced god but she hasn't yet she's learning to be no one and is trying to be but parts of her remain.

They offered to send her anywhere she wanted when she was blind even after killing dareon what's really so different now? When they offered her such things she had already heard secrets pouring (although she didn't know bravosi yet but KM didn't know she wouldn't understand everything) and what secrets does she really know that could hurt them? That faceless men use different peoples faces and use poison? The whole point is to be anonymous in their organization and they are and being anonymous mean that's WHATEVER ARYA KNOWS CANT BE USED AGAINST THEM

But more important she won't be killed because of valar doheris, all men must serve and she has served as faithfully as she's been able. Another part of her will be taken maybe her hearing maybe her voice. But killed or even threatened so by KM for giving the gift and being honest. No no my friend you are very wrong and far off on this one she could kill the sealord himself and I doubt they'd kill her

Really..? Pretty convoluted

[ejhawman]

I just finished reading the latest Arya chapter, so I feel I am now able to speculate on this.

The guess that Izembaro was a theater master was one of the higher-probability ones, but that wasn't saying much; Martin might have had a rather chaotic or idiosyncratic program of training for the Faceless Men. So with this chapter, we see that he takes a straightforward approach, and goes with the most obvious path: trainees early on learn the craft of acting, which is much of the groundwork of being a Faceless Man.

And Arya seems to be getting the idea: her stream of consciousness shows she is actually assimilating their philosophy, consciously trying to change her identity, her persona, her self-image. But she still recites her list silently each day. She cannot let go of some fragment of Arya Stark.

And lo, what should happen but she gets an unexpected boon: one of her list, Raff the Sweetling, falls into her lap. This gives her an Important Choice: kill him or leave him?

If she goes after him immediately, his friends will see her luring him away, so she will be fingered; she cannot stay with the theater, and probably should not dare return to the HOBAW. But then she will not likely be able to follow him after the performance. He would only be in town a few more days at most, and she might not find him again before he leaves. And if she misses him here, she would have to search up and down Westeros for years to find him again.

Given the chance, she cannot resist; she takes it and lures him away. By now she knows Basic Anatomy For Assassins, and cuts his femoral artery. That alone might finish him, but she tears his throat out to make sure.

She can clean up at the theater, and go home normally to ditch the body in a canal. But if she is smart, she would then immediately leave the city, abandoning all hope of learning more from the Kindly Man and the Waif. She knows enough to be a little bit dangerous, enough to be interesting, not quite enough to be too powerful. Just right for throwing her back into the action.

I have long felt she would have to break with the FM to rejoin the main storylines. This kill may be the proximate cause. We don't know how many other chapters she will have, or even if this was only the first; but likely she will head down to Pentos, perhaps on a Tryion-style odyssey down to Myr or Lys, where she hooks up with Dany on her way through.

She has so far always been travelling in company, usually with senior people that can force her to stay near. She has gained some ability to function independently. It's time to see how well she does at making her way around the world solo.

[The Stags Man]

I just finished reading the latest Arya chapter, so I feel I am now able to speculate on this.

The guess that Izembaro was a theater master was one of the higher-probability ones, but that wasn't saying much; Martin might have had a rather chaotic or idiosyncratic program of training for the Faceless Men. So with this chapter, we see that he takes a straightforward approach, and goes with the most obvious path: trainees early on learn the craft of acting, which is much of the groundwork of being a Faceless Man.

And Arya seems to be getting the idea: her stream of consciousness shows she is actually assimilating their philosophy, consciously trying to change her identity, her persona, her self-image. But she still recites her list silently each day. She cannot let go of some fragment of Arya Stark.

And lo, what should happen but she gets an unexpected boon: one of her list, Raff the Sweetling, falls into her lap. This gives her an Important Choice: kill him or leave him?

If she goes after him immediately, his friends will see her luring him away, so she will be fingered; she cannot stay with the theater, and probably should not dare return to the HOBAW. But then she will not likely be able to follow him after the performance. He would only be in town a few more days at most, and she might not find him again before he leaves. And if she misses him here, she would have to search up and down Westeros for years to find him again.

Given the chance, she cannot resist; she takes it and lures him away. By now she knows Basic Anatomy For Assassins, and cuts his femoral artery. That alone might finish him, but she tears his throat out to make sure.

She can clean up at the theater, and go home normally to ditch the body in a canal. But if she is smart, she would then immediately leave the city, abandoning all hope of learning more from the Kindly Man and the Waif. She knows enough to be a little bit dangerous, enough to be interesting, not quite enough to be too powerful. Just right for throwing her back into the action.

I have long felt she would have to break with the FM to rejoin the main storylines. This kill may be the proximate cause. We don't know how many other chapters she will have, or even if this was only the first; but likely she will head down to Pentos, perhaps on a Tryion-style odyssey down to Myr or Lys, where she hooks up with Dany on her way through.

She has so far always been travelling in company, usually with senior people that can force her to stay near. She has gained some ability to function independently. It's time to see how well she does at making her way around the world solo.

:agree:

The only thing i dont agree with is that she will be running into Dany. I think she heads to the Riverlands and Kings Landing area we have so many POV coming to Dany already i don't see here getting any more. We don't have an original POV character in King Landing/Riverlands area, and the POVs there are in serious risk of dieing or being imprisoned. Besides, that's where Arya has connections and Its more relevant to her immediate story; their are people their looking for her and her list of targets are currently calling the place home.

I believe she will go to the KL/RL area kill Ser Ilyn Payne by cutting his head off with Widows Wail fight Ser Meryn the Brovosi way and maybe kill Cersei, possibly Varys as well. Then reconnecting with the brotherhood heading North or to the Bloody Gate.

[Uldra I]

:agree:

The only thing i dont agree with is that she will be running into Dany. I think she heads to the Riverlands and Kings Landing area we have so many POV coming to Dany already i don't see here getting any more. We don't have an original POV character in King Landing/Riverlands area, and the POVs there are in serious risk of dieing or being imprisoned. Besides, that's where Arya has connections and Its more relevant to her immediate story; their are people their looking for her and her list of targets are currently calling the place home.

I believe she will go to the KL/RL area kill Ser Ilyn Payne by cutting his head off with Widows Wail fight Ser Meryn the Brovosi way and maybe kill Cersei, possibly Varys as well. Then reconnecting with the brotherhood heading North or to the Bloody Gate.

I agree she has to go to KL to finish her list, but first she has some more learning to do. I think she'll stay another chapter or two, maybe even more, with the FM. Learn glamours from the Black Pearl. And be assigned to go to KL on a mission for the Iron Bank. The FM will choose her specifically because of both her skill and her knowledge of the place and the people there. Could be the Iron Bank will want Cersei killed. Either way, she will finish her list at some point.

I think she'll start visiting the BwoB and unCat while she is still in Braavos, by warging Nymeria. She will help them with her pack to avenge the Red Wedding. If the FM don't take her back in for more training, and don't send her back to Westeros, she will feel compelled to go back one way or another because of what she learns through Nymeria's eyes. No clue if she'll get to unCat in person or not, but if she does meet up in person and the justice unCat sought was finished, I think Arya may be the one to give unCat mercy.

Jon Snow told Arya:

You'll be sewing all through winter. When the sprig thaw comes, they will find your body with a needle still locked tight between your frozen fingers

So I think the Arya story ends before spring. That means that Cersei and her children will all be dead also.

[The Stags Man]

Dolorous Lothston, I think something story changing is going to happen in Arya's next two or three chapters in Bravos that will cause her to go back to westeros not simple an assignment from the FM, in fact I expect the story changing event will be involved with Arya leaving the FM. I also think that people read to much into the sewing through winter quote Arya is one of the first characters imagined she will last to the end at least.

[Gloom Under Night]

i dont think she will died in Braavos, after going through what she went through without a meaningful death, that is just bad writing. If she were to die, she needs a glorious death.

i agree with The Stags Man people are reading too much into the sewing quote, Jon does not have the power of prophesy.

Ned also mention wolf survives in a pack and the lone wolf dies, which is not true at all. All the Stack children survived as lone wolves, the one that didnt was the leader of a huge pack.

Dont read too much into things people without power of foresight say.

As far as her killing Cersei goes, it wont happen. Cersei is not hers to kill. Not according to Maggy the Frog

That you can believe, because Maggy has power of foresight. Not unless she skills Tyrion or Jaime and steals one of their faces. Even then, strangulation deosnt seem like the way she goes about killing people with.

It would be exciting to see the FM going after her, and she ends up killing all the assassins going after her.

She is also closer to Dany than any of the major players, would be fun to see Dany to interact with the daughter of "the usurper's dog"

[the_nights_baron]

Upon reading the Mercy chapter in TWOW ot gpt me thinking about Arya getting back to Westeros along with the inevitable run-in with the recently married Lady of Winterfell "Arya Stark"/Jeyne Poole who is on her way to Braavos.

The Theon TWOW chapter informs us that Stannis isn sending "Ary Stark" with Justin Massey to Braavos to deal with the Iron Bank Uon completion of this mission Stannis has also requested that Justin drops of "Arya" to her bastard brother at the Wall.

My theory is that our Faceless Arya hears of the arrival of "Arya Stark" in Braavos and goes to investigate who has stolen her identity (a little bit of irony seeing as Arya is wearing other people identity ;)) She sees that "Arya Stark" is none other than her childhood bully Jeyne Poole albeit alot less bullyish, broken and "defaced" (that frostbite was rough on the poor girl). Arya may approach "Jeyne and possibly unveil herself - Jeyne may even remark on Aryas beauty(such a twist of fate). Jeyne, brutalised and tired of her life as "Arya Stark" may seek mercy from the God of Many-Faces and Arya leads her to the House of B&W so "Arya" may end her life in a dreamless sleep. The FM may remove "Arya's" face upon which the real Arya Stark don's.

Ahhhh the irony of Arya Stark playing "Arya Stark", Lady of Winterfell with Justiin Massey being none the wiser. Arya may then head back to Winterfell or the Wall hidden in plain sight as "herself". Sounds like a GRRM twist to me.

I believe Arya will eventually reveal herself as the real Arya Stark eventually but not until later in the story. The faces that are worn by the FM carry residue of the individual who lived that life and I think Arya whilst wearing "Arya's" face will experience some of the trauma that Jeyne/"Arya" had to go through....this leads into the creation of "Arya's" hitlist 2.0 which includes the Boltons and Littlefinger.

So what do you think a out Arya becoming "Arya Stark"? Sounds like a GRRM style plot ;)

[Uldra I]

"I think she will die before the return of spring somewhere in Westeros.

Dolorous Lothston, I think something story changing is going to happen in Arya's next two or three chapters in Bravos that will cause her to go back to westeros not simple an assignment from the FM, in fact I expect the story changing event will be involved with Arya leaving the FM. I also think that people read to much into the sewing through winter quote Arya is one of the first characters imagined she will last to the end at least.

I think she will go to Westeros, with or without the help of the FM. See the post #117, just above this one. I think this is a possibility as well, if Stannis sent Arya/Jeyne to Braavos with Massey.

i dont think she will died in Braavos, after going through what she went through without a meaningful death, that is just bad writing. If she were to die, she needs a glorious death.

i agree with The Stags Man people are reading too much into the sewing quote, Jon does not have the power of prophesy.

Ned also mention wolf survives in a pack and the lone wolf dies, which is not true at all. All the Stack children survived as lone wolves, the one that didnt was the leader of a huge pack.

Dont read too much into things people without power of foresight say.

As far as her killing Cersei goes, it wont happen. Cersei is not hers to kill. Not according to Maggy the Frog

That you can believe, because Maggy has power of foresight. Not unless she skills Tyrion or Jaime and steals one of their faces. Even then, strangulation deosnt seem like the way she goes about killing people with. ...

I don't think she'll die in Braavos, but in Westeros. The question in my mind is just how and when will she go there. IMHO The quote about Needle is just too blatant a foreshawdowing by GRRM to ignore. It reminds me of an offhand remark by Theon in AGoT: "Theon Greyjoy had once commented that Hodor did not know much, but no one could doubt that he knew his name." Theon as we see ends up forgetting his own name. Jon made the comment about the needle before he ever gave her the sword which she then named Needle. I think she will die before the end of spring, probably somewhere North in Westeros. Guess we will see, eventually. :)

By the way, does anyone else think Arya may end up helping unCat through Nymeria?

[The Stags Man]

Dolorous, I think you are seeing foreshadowing where none is intended with the Hodor Theon quote; besides Hodor is not even his real name. The Jon quote may not be an off handed remark but its interpretation is left up to the reader so it could mean a great deal many other things than Arya's death. I also think that if it was foreshadowing the future it would be brought up more than once at the start of the very first book.

I think if Arya encounters Lady Stone Heart it will be in person not through Nymeria.

[Uldra I]

Dolorous, I think you are seeing foreshadowing where none is intended with the Hodor Theon quote; besides Hodor is not even his real name. The Jon quote may not be an off handed remark but its interpretation is left up to the reader so it could mean a great deal many other things than Arya's death. I also think that if it was foreshadowing the future it would be brought up more than once at the start of the very first book.

I think if Arya encounters Lady Stone Heart it will be in person not through Nymeria.

Theon learned his name was Reek, and spent a lot of his time remembering that if you recall. The Theon quote is already a proven foreshadowing. As to Arya: There are a lot of people who agree with you and think the needle quote is not a foreshadow. But I just can't help believing it is, and a lot of people agree with me. Guess we'll just have to wait and see. GRRM may do something totally unpredictable (he likes doing that) and surprise all of us. ;)

Gloom Under Night said:

...As far as her killing Cersei goes, it wont happen. Cersei is not hers to kill. Not according to Maggy the Frog. That you can believe, because Maggy has power of foresight. Not unless she skills Tyrion or Jaime and steals one of their faces. Even then, strangulation deosnt seem like the way she goes about killing people with. ...

You are probably right. Just a note though... Arya is Sansa's valonquar. If Cersei was to get her clutches on Sansa then maybe... Guess that really is too much of a stretch though. I really think Jaime will kill Cersei. Didn't think that part through before I posted. Right now in the story, most if not all of the people left on Arya's prayer list are in KL. Just got a little carried away thinking Arya will get them all at once in the same place. Who knows, it could happen, maybe. :idea: