The Ironborn Plot: Will Dany literally miss the boat?

[JLE]

So, at first I hated the whole ironborn story arc. Thought it a pointless addition to the story, mainly invented just to make our beloved Starks and the North suffer more. And of course, that may have been all that King Balon Greyjoy wanted. It may be all that Victarion would have thought of, left to his own devices. Coastal raiders, never more than that, eventually crushed when the rest of the realm sent a united fleet against them.

Euron, on the other hand, is a far more scary situation. With his talk of dragons, the great dragon hellhorn "Dragonbinder" (identified as exactly that by Moqorro), which burned its blower to death from the inside out, and the fact that he's managed to talk even the brother who hates him into going all the way to Meereen to try and fetch the dragon queen - or, failing that, her dragons. His pet warlocks (whether he controls them, or they control him, and whether they include Pyat Pree or not) represent another potentially dangerous addition to the story. Because he's given the ironborn ideas. The idea of being more than just raiders who rule their small isles and pay the iron price everywhere else. The idea of actually carving a kingdom out of Westeros, or even ruling all of it... and in the name of their Drowned God, whose prayers include the words "What is dead may never die but rises again stronger". Now what's the logical conclusion of that? Things that die and rise again stronger? The Walking Dead Wights, that's what. I think Euron is planning to put himself - and possibly a dragon, no less - on the side of the Others, whether he realises that yet or not.

For now, let's skip over Euron's own intentions in sending Victarion out to Meereen (instead of going himself), except to assume that he is not sending them out there just to get rid of them: he expects Victarion, with his fleet and his horn, to actually gain something. And if that something is worth gaining, he knows Victarion has cause to hate him: so let us also assume that Euron has reason to believe he has the means to take Victarion's prize from him, even if Victarion should rebel. (Whether he actually has this means or not, and what it might be, is another question.) Let us also, for the present, gloss over Euron's true intentions in the Reach, and whether or not the ironborn threaten Oldtown, and why, and the role of warlocks and maesters in all of this. Instead, we'll follow Victarion himself.

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Victarion's Iron Fleet was built, of course, partly for coastal raiding, and partly for being able to fight other ships. Not for long open-sea voyages, although out of all the ironborn's ships, they are the best suited to this (or, rather, the least unsuited). Speed and mobility at close range, and the ability to beach on shore and swarm. On the long voyage to Meereen, however, they have suffered: having to cross the open sea and brave terrible storms, it's a miracle that nearly two thirds have survived.

However, his is not the only fleet heading to Meereen. The Volantene Armada is also heading there. Some of their ships, of course, may well be suited to naval combat, but the majority will be troop transports for foot soldiers on land. Such ships are seldom built for speed, but they are built for durability at sea, both against the elements and against attacks by pirates. No single pirate ship will go near them: they will stand up to the storms much better than the Iron Fleet: and, moreover, by sailing around the coast rather than crossing the deep ocean, they avoid the worst of the storms. This fleet, unlike Victarion's, would reach Meereen largely intact.

Victarion knows of the Volantene Armada's existence. He knows that, ship to ship, his crews would have the advantage in manoeuvrability and naval combat tactics: but the numbers - he is outnumbered by nearly six to one in ships, and by an even bigger margin in men - would be against him, so by his own admission he dares not fight Volantis at sea with what he has. And if he dares not fight them at sea, then he certainly dares not fight them on land in the city (we may assume his estimate is correct: he may not know much, but massed naval combat is a thing he knows all about.) He is therefore on a very strict, circumscribed timetable: Get into Meereen, get whatever he can, get out before Volantis arrives, evade them on the way back. If he cannot get anything worth getting, he will then have no choice but to go home with his tail between his legs, no doubt losing more of his ships on the way.

Meanwhile:

Dany is not currently in Meereen. She is out in the Dothraki Grasslands, having been there for some time with Drogon, and was last seen coming face to face with Jhaqo - last seen four books ago as a Ko to Khal Drogo, he is now a Khal with his own Khalasar. He has a fair number of warriors with him. She has nothing but Drogon. On the other hand, one breath from Drogon and I would anticipate Jhaqo would be killed, and the rest of the Dothraki warriors either scattering or bowing to Dany.

And back at Meereen, Dany's husband - Hizdahr - has been deposed by Barristan and the Shavepate, who are now having to cope with the siege. So far, this is all "known" - in books already published.

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Now we go on to the released chapters from TWOW, from the points of view of Barristan, Tyrion and Victarion. From which we learn the following:

The Yunkai'i army is besieging Meereen, assisted by the arrival of a Ghiscari fleet. Barristan intends to lead a sortie, rather than remain stuck in the city, and destroy the artillery. As he does so, he witnesses the arrival of a third force - Victarion's ironborn, unexpectedly carving their way through the invaders' ships and men, having followed the Ghiscari fleet in, and realises this means the Yunkai'i are doomed. What he, and we, do not yet know is where the ironborn will *stop*.

Victarion has the dragon horn, and is preparing to have it blown, once each by three minions (rather than three times by one minion) - in the hope of convincing these people that they will not die from blowing it if they only blow it once rather than three times. How correct this is, remains to be seen.

Tyrion, with the Second Sons, has not yet taken a side in the battle - officially the Second Sons are with the Yunkai'i, but having seen the besiegers' incompetence at first hand, are considering re-defecting back to Dany again. They witness the stout organised defence of the city, the stupidity of the Yunkai'i, the attack of the Ironborn fleet, and a new wild card: the two free dragons, Viserion and Rhaegal, are both joining in the battle, seemingly at random, picking men off one at a time. At some point, the white dragon (Viserion) disappears from the fight, but the green one (Rhaegal) still flies. In his game of cyvasse with Brown Ben Plumm - interrupted by a fracas within the tent as they finally decide to change sides - Tyrion ends up picking the blood-spattered white dragon piece off the floor and wiping it clean.

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Several important questions are raised:

How far behind Victarion is the Volantene Armada? Both Tyrion and Barristan were expecting them any time soon. Since we know Victarion doesn't expect to be able to beat them at sea - and certainly not on land - he can't stay for long. He will have to withdraw even if he finds Dany is not there: he cannot wait for her, and risk being caught ashore, because that means the destruction of his ships and then his men, by sheer weight of numbers.

How will Victarion interact with the city defenders, once the Yunkish / Ghiscari force has been slaughtered? Will he parley with Barristan, or will the city have to defend itself against the ironborn? The ironborn don't have the siege equipment (and Barristan has destroyed the Yunkish siege equipment), but the city defenders will be caught outside the city with the gates open if Victarion continues fighting and comes face to face with Barristan. And if Victarion fights Barristan, who wins? Will age finally catch up with the old warrior against the savage ironborn captain at the peak of his powers? Or will Barristan get back to the city and succeed in closing the gates, so the ironborn cannot get in, having no intact siege equipment and unable to stay long enough to rebuild it? Even if Barristan parleys with Victarion, the latter will find that Dany is not there.

How far from Meereen is Dany? Even if she were able to order Drogon to go where she wished - which is far from certain - would she even be able to make it back to Meereen in time to meet Victarion? It seems to me unlikely. Besides, assuming she kills Jhaqo and takes over his khalasar, she would go wherever she goes accompanied by them, which means travelling at the speed of the slowest trotting horse, not a flying dragon.

Does the white dragon's disappearance from the fight, and Tyrion's picking up and cleaning the white dragon cyvasse piece, suggest that Viserion is injured and has had to flee, or is grounded and unable to fly?

Will the dragon horn work as Victarion intends, and win him control of the remaining dragon - Rhaegal the Green? Assuming even that the general slaughter of the battlefield suffices for Moqorro's "you must claim the horn - in blood", so that Victarion can safely be considered the horn's "owner" when having his minions blow it. (And perhaps Viserion's potential injury will save him from falling to Victarion's control.) And if he can control Rhaegal, and finds that Drogon is gone and Viserion fled or too injured to travel, and Dany absent, will at least the control of one dragon be enough for him to consider his mission a sufficient success to return home at once?

Will Barristan even be left alive to tell Dany the news when she comes back after Victarion has been and gone, or will Tyrion be the only person left capable of doing that - and will he have established any rapport with Viserion? Given that Viserion is likely to be injured, and given that Tyrion seems to get on well with, among other things, "cripples and broken things"... does this also suggest that Viserion's injuries are likely to be serious in a permanent way, or can he be nursed back to health?

Will Hizdahr or Daario survive either invasion, and who cares anyway?

And finally... Victarion thinks NOW that he couldn't beat the Volantene fleet in a battle. But if he has control of one or more dragons... perhaps that would change things? Instead of trying to race out past them, would he be likely to test out his control of Rhaegal by blasting his way *through* them? (My view - You just bet he would.)

Either way... The likely result seems to be that Victarion will have been and gone, before Dany ever returns to Meereen: I believe that he and Dany will be unable to meet at this point. His arc, and the ironborn story arc in moving beyond mere piracy and raiding, only make sense and add to the story if he *succeeds* in getting control of a dragon.

So when Dany finally gets back to Meereen, logically, she'll find the city in chaos - corpses everywhere from all the various armies that have invaded it, plus its defenders, the harbour nearly destroyed, and littered with wrecks from the Yunkai/Ghiscari fleet, a few ironborn wrecks, and further out to see, the smoking wreckage of the Volantene fleet where Victarion bashed his way out through it. No ships to be had anywhere. A lot of her Unsullied dead. Possibly a new Dothraki army at her back, but no way to transport them anywher - no ships, no harbour to rebuild the ships in, and the sea covered in slowly-sinking wrecks full of corpses. One dragon injured, one dragon missing, and herself probably a widow for the second time (if Barristan dies, Skahaz the Shavepate will murder Hizdahr for sure, and take over the city.) I wouldn't bet highly on Barristan surviving if Victarion turns on him, but Tyrion would survive anything short of a direct-hit comet strike...

And thus, to all the people who think Victarion's purpose in getting there is to take Dany to Westeros, I think that, narratively, he'll serve to *destroy* any ability for Dany to bring an army to Westeros - either her Unsullied or Dothraki (both of whom would be largely useless to her anyway since they would alienate the locals and turn them against her, as an invading foreign army. Foreign sell-sword companies might be tolerated as mercenaries, but a full army of foreign troops would be resisted - only the Golden Company would have a chance, and that because it consists mostly of Westerosi exiles.)

In any case Dany wouldn't get on one of Victarion's ships even if she could. She'd be a helpless hostage the whole way, unable to call a dragon to her aid and unable to take her army with her. Only if the entire ironborn army is slain on shore, with their ships still intact at sea - a hideously unlikely circumstance - will the ironborn ships be able to take her army, and she wouldn't go with the ironborn alone because it would be D-U-M-B.

And of course, if Victarion dies (while Dany is not there), the remaining ironborn either get the hell out of there, or go berserk until they die, then their ships get smashed up by the Volantene Armada which sacks Meereen and goes home, again leaving Dany with no ships.

So, Dany is not going to bring an army back by ship, and is not coming back on an ironborn ship unless it's as a captive. I reckon she's going back alone on dragon-back after discovering she's too late for anything else...

[Carey Snow]

There is a lot there to chew on. First, Victarion's plan maybe to get in and out but he is assuming that Dany is there and that by controlling her dragons he will also control her. Instead he is going to find Tyrion and Selmy,. We have no idea how those negotiations are going to go. If he is able to control a dragon, he will wreck havoc on the Volantis fleet. Ships would fare poorly against a dragon, being made of wood and all, so there may not be the need for him to run off.

I personally think that Dany heads east towards Vaes Dothrak as a captive of Kahl Jhaqo with Drogon tagging along at a safe distance to keep track of his mom and munching on a horse every now and then (The dothraki will not kill Dany as even they could see the value in controlling a Dragon and sacrificing a few horses would be worth while). Victarion, Tyrion, Selmy, and the other leaders (Brown Ben, Daario etc) will parly and decide that Meereen is a lost cause and not really their home anyways. They will set the Green Grace as the leader to try Hizdarh's trail. He will be found innocent and gain control of the city (we may hear of this through messages later in the series). This will complicate Dany's story as she will still have a husband back east and can not marry again out west. The main participants will decide to split up. Victorian, Selmy, Grey Worm and the Unsullied, and 1 Dragon will head east in Vic's boats. Jorah, Daario, Moqorro, Missandei, Tryion and 1 dragon (assuming Tryion Bonds) will head into the Dothraki sea in search of Dany. Their plan to be to find her fate and then meet the main army in Pentos or Braavos. Of course, their search will lead them to Vaes Dothrak where they will free Dany and possibly somehow unite the Khalasar under her rule or simply flee. They will head east toward her main army with two dragons in tow.

As far as the Unsullied/Dothraki putting off the locals once they arrive in Westeros, that is just how it will go. Aegon has a bunch of Essos sell swords, so it is not like he is fighting with local troops. It will just add one more dynamic to the story. Of course by then, I expect the Others have breeched the wall and that the average small folk in Westeros will have more worries than Unsullieds.

And for what it is worth, I predict Tyrion will ultimately turn on Dany and side with Aegon who he really seemed to like, taking a Dragon with him. But that will be down the road.

Victorian is in no hury to head back to Euron as he wants Dany, Dragons, and Glory for himself. The dusky woman is a wild card here as there is something more to her than it seems. Same with Missandei.

[JLE]

I don't see Victarion sitting down to negotiate with Barristan. The ironborn don't negotiate, at least not from positions of strength.

I also don't see Barristan sitting down to negotiate with Victarion, since the last time they met, they fought on opposite sides of the First Balon Greyjoy Rebellion... There's blood there to be shed (not least because GRRM will never let negotiations go successfully if they could come to battle instead), and I think only one of the two is going to survive. If Victarion gets control of Rhaegal the dragon, I'm afraid that may mean Barristan gets a hero's death out there, possibly outside the city walls (while the Shavepate closes the gates behind him in effectively a secondary coup against the very person who helped him depose Hizdahr in the first place.)

I also don't see Victarion having the patience to wait on Dany not being there, and certainly not to try and bring order to a city, or allow for such a thing as a *trial*. If Barristan dies, Dany will be a widow within the day no matter whether Victarion or Shavepate ends up in charge of the city, and Victarion won't want to hang around in a city that's already having problems with the Bloody Flux Plague - he'll be out of there before he and his own crew catch it, let alone before Volantis arrives (and with a dragon, he'll just burn the lot of them as well). He is not a ruler or an organiser - he couldn't rule a civilization, only a bunch of raiding robbers.

I think the first dragon to get back to Westeros will be under ironborn control, and the people will *really* know terror, whatever happens between Euron and Victarion. Tyrion will be stuck looking after the injured Viserion.

I can definitely imagine Dany heading to Vaes Dothrak, as you suggest, and being way too late to get back to Meereen, and find no ships anywhere. The only way she's coming back is alone, on Drogon in pursuit, with whatever Drogon can carry - she's never going to bring an *army* to Westeros in time, not over sea (no ships available if Victarion leaves early and smashes the Volantenes) and not over land (too long a journey.)

And meanwhile in Westeros... Tommen's days, sadly, are numbered, whether it's murder or sickness. Cersei will crown Myrcella (ironically, since Myrcella was so nearly crowned as a ploy *against* Cersei) and half of Dorne will back Trystane / Myrcella, the other half will back Arianne if she marries Aegon (after the news comes back that Quentyn is dead and Dany not coming), yet another civil war ensues while the Reach does their best to hold off the ironborn under Euron - with some success until Victarion gets back with a dragon...

And yes, there's the Others coming south too...

[Carey Snow]

Well, Victorian and the Iron Born are going to have a hard time fighting the Unsullied in a Pitched fight on land. So he may very well have to negotiate. Plus he will need to find out what happened to Dany. I doubt he stays a long time but long enough to check things out, and come up with a plan. He really wants the woman in addition to the dragon.

[JLE]

A lot depends on how close behind Victarion is the Volantene fleet. I don't believe he has *time* to negotiate his way into anything - he has to smash in, grab what he can, and get out before they arrive, because he doesn't believe he can even beat them at sea, he KNOWS he certainly can't beat them on land. He cannot afford to be caught ashore by an invading navy, he must put to sea and get out as soon as the fleet of Volantis is sighted (if he hopes to beat them) or before (if he hopes to evade them), which doesn't give him time to dicker.

"eats, shoots and leaves" - that's Victarion :)

[Carey Snow]

And the second dragon. We do not even know if that dragon is hurt or just wanted a nap. It is all speculation.

[Drake Heath]

I'd like for the Ironborn to attack, get their asses kicked and have Victarion be executed by Ser Barristan.

From what I remember Ironborn kinda blow when it comes to land fighting, so hopefully the only Victarion chapter we get is when he dies.

[Rikard Stark]

I dont think the volante fleet will actually come, Dany may miss the boat, but she will go by Khalassar back to the free cities to meet with her guys. From there they cross the narrow sea to fight the Grumpkins and snarks.

[Mrmanakan]

There is a lot there to chew on. First, Victarion's plan maybe to get in and out but he is assuming that Dany is there and that by controlling her dragons he will also control her. Instead he is going to find Tyrion and Selmy,. We have no idea how those negotiations are going to go. If he is able to control a dragon, he will wreck havoc on the Volantis fleet. Ships would fare poorly against a dragon, being made of wood and all, so there may not be the need for him to run off.

I personally think that Dany heads east towards Vaes Dothrak as a captive of Kahl Jhaqo with Drogon tagging along at a safe distance to keep track of his mom and munching on a horse every now and then (The dothraki will not kill Dany as even they could see the value in controlling a Dragon and sacrificing a few horses would be worth while). Victarion, Tyrion, Selmy, and the other leaders (Brown Ben, Daario etc) will parly and decide that Meereen is a lost cause and not really their home anyways. They will set the Green Grace as the leader to try Hizdarh's trail. He will be found innocent and gain control of the city (we may hear of this through messages later in the series). This will complicate Dany's story as she will still have a husband back east and can not marry again out west. The main participants will decide to split up. Victorian, Selmy, Grey Worm and the Unsullied, and 1 Dragon will head east in Vic's boats. Jorah, Daario, Moqorro, Missandei, Tryion and 1 dragon (assuming Tryion Bonds) will head into the Dothraki sea in search of Dany. Their plan to be to find her fate and then meet the main army in Pentos or Braavos. Of course, their search will lead them to Vaes Dothrak where they will free Dany and possibly somehow unite the Khalasar under her rule or simply flee. They will head east toward her main army with two dragons in tow.

As far as the Unsullied/Dothraki putting off the locals once they arrive in Westeros, that is just how it will go. Aegon has a bunch of Essos sell swords, so it is not like he is fighting with local troops. It will just add one more dynamic to the story. Of course by then, I expect the Others have breeched the wall and that the average small folk in Westeros will have more worries than Unsullieds.

And for what it is worth, I predict Tyrion will ultimately turn on Dany and side with Aegon who he really seemed to like, taking a Dragon with him. But that will be down the road.

Victorian is in no hury to head back to Euron as he wants Dany, Dragons, and Glory for himself. The dusky woman is a wild card here as there is something more to her than it seems. Same with Missandei.

The mother of dragons is no captive (or slave) and the mother of dragons does no flee. She already is mother to the stallion who mounts the world (Drogon). The dothraki have never had a Khal with a dragon before let alone a khaleesi. She is potentially the best leader they could ever hope for. And she can just burn all of Khal jhaqo's khalasar if they got a problem with that.

I don't think westeros would have a problem with her bringing the dothraki west if she can keep them in line and from pillaging and plundering. If she can do this is shows the people she is a strong leader for reigning in the "savage".

I think the unsullied will follow her anywhere. They owe her their lives and freedom something they never dreamed of. It's a noble thing she did and the people will respect that although I'm sure they'll snigger about it. But if they have a problem with it they can burn (ok that does sound kinda mad kingish)

I also think she won't abandon her freedmen.

However I think that's where volantis comes into play. Volantis is already a pretty volatile situation. I think it will fall in her name possibly without her there. After this happens I think this will become the freedmen Capitol, where all the freed slaves migrate and that the city will end up with a democratic type system installed possibly with the widow of the waterfront installed as one of the leaders. Some of her unsullied May become part of the policing system here just a thought but maybe not as well they alrdy have lots of slaves. And could probably police themselves as it is.

I think the most interesting city to see react towards dany will be bravos. I just can't see them getting behind her not siding with the slavers. That city hates dragons like no other and also doesn't covet such things if they/the faceless men get a chance they will try to kill her/her dragons when they can I think.

It's prophesied that the dosh khaleen will now towards dany she will get her IMO unite the khalasars and I see them going west (or really Far East) to westeros.

Winds will show dany a lot like she was during first half of storms but stronger and more willing to do what's necessary. Will she go mad is the biggest question.

[Mrmanakan]

When the volanteen fleet gets to mereen they'll see the slavers beaten and broken I predict a kind of mutiny happening when that happens the slaves will see for the first time their masters defeated and take hope and destroy their masters as well IMO

[Tyrion1991]

OP-

My prediction-

I think Victarion has been set up for a dramatic fail and Moqorro has played him. He will blow the horn and inadvertently sound the retreat for the forces. This will cause a collapse and then just as this is happening the Volantine force appears and Viserion is downed. This will be the disaster/low point. Victarions Iron Fleet will probably be trapped and wiped out. Moqorro will then enter the much larger Voltanese force and begin to subvert it since most of its soldiers follow the red god. He always recognised Victarion as an enemy and pawn of Euron so is fine destroying him. Vic was never meant to be a dragonrider. His brother lied to him. Eurons gifts are poisoned.

I don't know how, but I think that in all of the chaos Viserion comes very close to death and is beset on the ground by the Yunkish. Then, somehow, perhaps due to the influence of the horn or perhaps because Rhaegal recognises/smells Jorah whilst hes attacking the second sons in an enraged state caused by the horn. Jorah then tames rhaegal before the second sons can turncloak (again) and they manage to go and rescue Viserion. This will be where Tyrion first bonds with the white dragon.

What happens next really depends on GRRM. Either Dany arrives having already siezed his khalessar offscreen (in fact having Dany on dragonback as her first chapter as she raises the siege would be pretty epic) and the battle is swiftly resolved before a true disaster ensues. Or, the siege drags on for some time and Dany goes to Vaes Dothrak first and sacks all the slaver cities before coming to destroy the slaver armies themselves. In either event Moqorro, with his force of personality and magic, will probably cause a significant part of the Voltanese slaves to defect to Danys side.

[metr0man]

I think Dany will return to find Meereen in ashes and her 2 dragons gone. Taken by Victarion. This will throw her in a panic, she'll hop on her Dragon and chase Victarion to Westeros. This is what finally gets Dany over the sea, her "children" being kidnapped. This is what GRRM struggled with for years and he finally figured out the most obvious motivation for Dany... And then realized he had to get her out of the way while Victarion comes and kidnaps them.

By the way remember S2 of GoT, filled with warlocks kidnapping the dragons and endless "I have to find my dragons" talk and how that was a departure from her Book 2 storyline? Guess who know where the story is going? D&D and GRRM. Guess who has Warlocks helping them? euron. I propose S2 of the TV show is meant to more clearly set up an Ironborn and Pyat Pree kidnapping the dragons and taking off.

[Tyrion1991]

Dany has plenty of motivation. Thats what her epilogue was all about in ADWD.

Also, don't blame the character for GRRM creative decisions regarding her arc. He has kept her in a holding pattern since the first book. The fact that Aegon got to reach Westeros with an army and fleet in a few chapters shows that the obstacles thrown at Dany and the crisis she has went through are all just counting time until GRRM feels he has reached the point in the story (THE END BTW) that Dany gets to be part of the main, real and only plot that matters; Westeros.

If anything is going to kill the TV show it is going to be that Dany stays in Meereen and doesn't get to Westeros next season. I think every viewer is going to be expecting her to be getting ready to invade just as things fall apart for the Lannisters. TV viewers do not tolerate being taken for a ride and shown pointless filler like GRRM has got away with for 11 years.

[Carey Snow]

I think Dany will return to find Meereen in ashes and her 2 dragons gone. Taken by Victarion. This will throw her in a panic, she'll hop on her Dragon and chase Victarion to Westeros. This is what finally gets Dany over the sea, her "children" being kidnapped. This is what GRRM struggled with for years and he finally figured out the most obvious motivation for Dany... And then realized he had to get her out of the way while Victarion comes and kidnaps them.

By the way remember S2 of GoT, filled with warlocks kidnapping the dragons and endless "I have to find my dragons" talk and how that was a departure from her Book 2 storyline? Guess who know where the story is going? D&D and GRRM. Guess who has Warlocks helping them? euron. I propose S2 of the TV show is meant to more clearly set up an Ironborn and Pyat Pree kidnapping the dragons and taking off.

The fact that the show already did this story line would mean that it is unlikely to happen in the future. Why would the show runners want to write the same script twice, even if on a much larger scale? It could happen but only if the horn works.

Plus I argue that Victarion is just as much obsessed with marrying/abducting the most beautiful woman in the world as he is with dragons. He also wants Dany.

[Carey Snow]

Dany has plenty of motivation. Thats what her epilogue was all about in ADWD.

Also, don't blame the character for GRRM creative decisions regarding her arc. He has kept her in a holding pattern since the first book. The fact that Aegon got to reach Westeros with an army and fleet in a few chapters shows that the obstacles thrown at Dany and the crisis she has went through are all just counting time until GRRM feels he has reached the point in the story (THE END BTW) that Dany gets to be part of the main, real and only plot that matters; Westeros.

If anything is going to kill the TV show it is going to be that Dany stays in Meereen and doesn't get to Westeros next season. I think every viewer is going to be expecting her to be getting ready to invade just as things fall apart for the Lannisters. TV viewers do not tolerate being taken for a ride and shown pointless filler like GRRM has got away with for 11 years.

In the previews she states, "How can I rule 7 kingdoms, if I can not rule a single city?" So it looks like her rule of Meereen will begin. If it kills the show, we will see. I actually think it will play out better on TV then it did in the books. The book readers are much more Westeros driven and have very little patience for dilly dally-ing around (I am an exception to this, I don't want the series to end). Probably because it takes so long between books, the average reader wants to know what happens! The TV show watchers don't have that issue. The next season will be out next april regardless. If the producers say seven seasons than a tv watcher can give them that. If Martin says 7 books that means 28 years. lol

Plus the love triangle of Hizdarh/Daario/Quentyn/Dany with Jorah being exiled will probably play out really well on tv.

Of course, I am one of those crazy readers who really enjoyed the Dany/Meereen plotline. I found it a lot more complex than "Wersteros is the only thing that matters" readers seem to. I also think it really made Dany more human and less a mythical mother of dragons. But I like reading about Dany and watching her character develop.

[Pod The Impaler]

Meanwhile:

Dany is not currently in Meereen. She is out in the Dothraki Grasslands, having been there for some time with Drogon, and was last seen coming face to face with Jhaqo - last seen four books ago as a Ko to Khal Drogo, he is now a Khal with his own Khalasar. He has a fair number of warriors with him. She has nothing but Drogon. On the other hand, one breath from Drogon and I would anticipate Jhaqo would be killed, and the rest of the Dothraki warriors either scattering or bowing to Dany.

...

So, Dany is not going to bring an army back by ship, and is not coming back on an ironborn ship unless it's as a captive. I reckon she's going back alone on dragon-back after discovering she's too late for anything else...

Yeah, this is something I've thought about sometimes.

What if the whole Victarion / Barristan / Tyrion / etc. situation gets settled without Dany? The end result may be that Victarion never finds his "bride to be" Dany, but does have the horn and perhaps takes the other two dragons.

Dany is pretty far away from Meereen, it would seem. We do not know what direction Drogon took her, nor for how many days flying.

Perhaps Dany returns in the aftermath but her other 2 "children" are gone ? Or perhaps she never returns to Meereen at all - flying elsewhere on Drogon, perhaps dragging Jhaquo's khalasar behind her. To the east and Asshai? To the west and Volantis or Pentos or Braavos ? (Personally, I think Volantis will be the place she strikes at next.) We also cannot discount that someone will end up going to Valyria itself, and there's a good chance it is her.

So, the end result may be that the Mother of Dragons does not figure into Meereen's battle at all.

Without her, can the free forces defeat the slaver forces of Yunkai and Volantis ? Basically, if they can or do, they may no longer need her as a ruler.

[Mrmanakan]

Can anyone say Dany boob double

I wonder if they'll look like hers do, her boobs stick in my head will be saddened not seeing her lovely tata's on tv anymore 😭

[Whitering]

If Tyrion chats with Vic for more than a minute he will get his head cut off, this is not a man, like every other person Tyrion has met who will suffer him to any degree. I thought Viserion was just flying off to find mommy. Didn't she fly east?

[Nucky Thompson]

There are two interesting lines of thought here:

Moqorro tells Victarion that the horn must be claimed by blood, and at the same time, there is speculation that Viserion is injured - i.e. his blood is spilled. Now, whether Victarion himself or Moqorro has this figured out, and for what purpose in particular, is unclear, but it may be a dragon's blood that is needed to activate the horn (it may even be Euron's Dusky Woman agent who facilitates this).

The other thing is that it is repeatedly stated throughout the series that Victarion has no luck with wives. This is of course useful as a backstory in his difficult relationship with Euron, but could we take it to suggest that he will marry (or take as a saltwife) the one woman in the series with as thick a plot armor as they go - Daenerys? It could make for some dramatic writing if Victarion comes and goes before Daenerys arrives, leaving her fleetless once more, but wouldn't it rob the story of much of its potential? Furthermore, it is likely that Daenerys will return to Westeros to fight Aegon, even if she is ultimately destined to return to the East to rule former slaves and do all those charity bullshit we witnessed her doing for five books now. To do so, and in two books' time, she needs a fleet ASAP, and Victarion smashing the Volantene armada and going home is not going to accomplish that. The Volantene armada defeating Victarion and then transporting Daenerys is also off the cards, considering his buildup as this uber-captain, and taking into account his weary disposition towards them when paying 'the golden price' for supplies, rather unlike his mistakes from the past, leading to Fair Isle.

PS: The idea that Victarion and Barristan head east without waiting for Daenerys seemed odd to me at first, but it got me thinking what could motivate them to do so. With the foreshadowing of one dragon being hurt in the upcoming battle, one might suggest that the Tattered Prince is the one who does that and keeps the dragon hostage until what has been promised to him (Pentos) is taken. Could such a move clear any problems between Victarion and Barristan and send them on their merry way to carve up Magister Illyrio? It would certainly make Victarion more likeable to Daenerys upon her return, and this can propel her westward as well, only via land and with a khalasar at her back.

[John Thompson]

"The old songs say that the green seers used dark magics to make the seas rise and sweep away the land, shattering the Arm (of Dorne), but it was too late to close the door." - Maester Luwin, A Game of Thrones, chapter 66.

From a perspective of motivation, Daenerys would abandon Meereen to chase after one of her dragons. Her interior monologue during her last chapter in Dance makes it clear that she views them as her children.

My belief is that Daenerys will return to Westeros with the Dothraki via the newly-risen Arm of Dorne, after Bran reaches out to her.