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Are the Starks Out?


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#1 ChaosImprisonateMe

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 04:41 AM

I was wondering about why Sansa is still a character. Don't get me wrong, she is alright with me, I just feel with everything thats happened that she could have been killed so many times. 

 

I feel that her actions during the beginning represent a scar for the Stark family that are supposed to be looked at throughout the novels. In a way, the way she lied in order to keep the peace is very similar to Ned's inability to do what needs to be done because of his own sense of justice. That might be the reason for the fall of the Starks as legitimate contenders of the Iron Throne. Even if Jon Snow is alive, it seems like he will do great things at a different level. I don't know what you guys thought about this. In a sense Rob was a victim of this as well. He married for love and forgot the one thing that really gave him his power. In a way one could say that Rob, Ned, and Sansa, all died because they were blinded by love. Ned didn't want to break his best friends heart. 

 

I think many will disagree with me, but I think Sansa is dead (Starkness). I read a bit on what people thought about the significance of her Direwolve's death. I'm very much on the idea that her Starkness died when she decided not to tell the truth about what happened by the river. She tried to maintain her personal relationship without doing what had to be done. Rob and Ned also suffered from the same reasons. 



#2 James Kidd

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 05:01 AM

She was doing her best to keep intact the marriage pact her family made for her. I don't see Sansa's testimony as a reason for the Starks to reject her.



#3 joluoto2

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 05:03 AM

The Starks are gone for now. The only remnant of Arya is the "spirit of revenge" that lingers around in her, and her wolf dreams. So I would say Arya is much more dead than Sansa. Sansa has plot armor because George has plans for her. I actually think Sansa will be one of the few survivors of the series.

 

Jon Snow probably still have some things to do. So he isn't as dead as he appears to be. Bran has Greenseer stuff to do behind the Wall (but he's probably never returning). Davos went to look for Rickon, and Rickon might just be the vehicle for Stark restoration. The Starks never were legitimate contenders for the throne though. Robb tried to break free from the Iron Throne because the Greatjon and Theon got all the bannermen of the North and the Riverlands to proclaim him king. If that hadn't happened he'd probably just declared for Stannis.



#4 Darksnider05

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 05:04 AM

I was wondering about why Sansa is still a character. Don't get me wrong, she is alright with me, I just feel with everything thats happened that she could have been killed so many times. 

 

I feel that her actions during the beginning represent a scar for the Stark family that are supposed to be looked at throughout the novels. In a way, the way she lied in order to keep the peace is very similar to Ned's inability to do what needs to be done because of his own sense of justice. That might be the reason for the fall of the Starks as legitimate contenders of the Iron Throne. Even if Jon Snow is alive, it seems like he will do great things at a different level. I don't know what you guys thought about this. In a sense Rob was a victim of this as well. He married for love and forgot the one thing that really gave him his power. In a way one could say that Rob, Ned, and Sansa, all died because they were blinded by love. Ned didn't want to break his best friends heart. 

 

I think many will disagree with me, but I think Sansa is dead (Starkness). I read a bit on what people thought about the significance of her Direwolve's death. I'm very much on the idea that her Starkness died when she decided not to tell the truth about what happened by the river. She tried to maintain her personal relationship without doing what had to be done. Rob and Ned also suffered from the same reasons. 

 

When have the Starks ever wanted the Iron Throne?


Edited by Darksnider05, 06 April 2014 - 05:04 AM.


#5 Mladen

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 05:59 AM

I am sorry, but I will have to strongly disagree with the OP. 

 

The first thing first, what is the "Starkness"? Do people consider it some level of awesomeness that you can achieve only through some activities made up by fandom? Does person named Stark have more Starkness than those Karstarks? And WTH is the point of "Starkness"

 

Since I am a firm believer there is no such thing as Starkness, and for some reason I believe that when you have a Stark surname, you are Stark enough, I am simply baffled by some people's insistence of arguing that one Stark is more Stark than the others. It's, IMHO, nonsensical and simply pointless.

 

As for Sansa, I hope OP knows that Lady's death can be interpreted in many different ways and that people have done so all over this board. From the death of Sansa's childhood, death for life idea, forceful domestication of Sansa, end of her dreams of becoming Lady etc. That Sansa lost her "Stark identity" is simply one of many interpretations out there, and I have to say that it is the most flawed one. Sansa is a Stark, she is just as warg as her siblings (not that it speaks more about her being Stark, for not all Starks are wargs), and throughout the books, GRRM had done a lot to emphasize her origin. From paralleling Lyanna's story when she went to Cersei, "her not kneeling" to Tyrion scene which he always connected to her Stark identity to paralleling Bael the Bard story, with pinnacle in her snow castle scene which is filled with wonderful symbolism, homesickness and love for her family. So, for someone people claim is no more Stark, GRRM has written so much to actually prove us that she is just as Stark as the rest of the bunch.

 

 

I was wondering about why Sansa is still a character. Don't get me wrong, she is alright with me, I just feel with everything thats happened that she could have been killed so many times.

 

As for this. Sansa's path has a trajectory and I imagine that it will be clear what her endgame will be soon enough. Yes, she could have been killed so many times, just as Arya, Jon and even Bran. The point is she is alive. And that tells us she will undoubtedly have a role.



#6 The Bastard of Walton

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 06:01 AM

Have to agree with the Fact that she is no longer a Stark & will never regain that part of her life. Like the OP after hearing people's thoughts about how she lost her wolf has swayed me to think this. I don't think she will die, I think she will be Lady of the Vale, but she'll never return to Winterfell.

 

Hope I'm wrong though.



#7 Ser Eric

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 06:07 AM

Not long ago, she wanted to name here sons Eddard, Bran and Rickon. In her last chapter she thinks how it would be nice to meet Jon.

 

I'm not a great fan of Sansa by any means but she's very much a Stark. Right now she knows she has no other option but to go along as Littlefinger says but if/when she finds out that Rickon is still alive we might see a different side of her. Or so I hope anyway.



#8 The Weirwoods Eyes

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 06:15 AM

Simply, Sansa is a Stark to the Bone. 



#9 dornishscorpion

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 06:30 AM

I think Sansa in the future will become another version of cercei ( without the incest)

#10 greensleeves

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 06:32 AM

I don't understand the title of this thread.

 

Out of what? Contention for the Iron Throne? They never wanted it.  The story?  The Starks are the heroes. 



#11 Mladen

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 06:43 AM

I think Sansa in the future will become another version of cercei ( without the incest)

 

Uhm, no... She distanced herself from Cersei as further as she could... With such striking differences in their characters, I can't see that happening.

 

 

I don't understand the title of this thread.

 

Out of what? Contention for the Iron Throne? They never wanted it.  The story?  The Starks are the heroes. 

 

Hello, stranger... Nice to see you back among us... It's been a while :)



#12 greensleeves

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 06:47 AM

 

Uhm, no... She distanced herself from Cersei as further as she could... With such striking differences in their characters, I can't see that happening.

 

 

 

Hello, stranger... Nice to see you back among us... It's been a while :)

 

Haha... I stick my head in every once in a while.  It's nice to know you're still defending Sansa!  I might be around more now that the show is starting up again.



#13 Wolfox6

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 06:50 AM

I was wondering about why Sansa is still a character. Don't get me wrong, she is alright with me, I just feel with everything thats happened that she could have been killed so many times. 

 

I feel that her actions during the beginning represent a scar for the Stark family that are supposed to be looked at throughout the novels. In a way, the way she lied in order to keep the peace is very similar to Ned's inability to do what needs to be done because of his own sense of justice. That might be the reason for the fall of the Starks as legitimate contenders of the Iron Throne. Even if Jon Snow is alive, it seems like he will do great things at a different level. I don't know what you guys thought about this. In a sense Rob was a victim of this as well. He married for love and forgot the one thing that really gave him his power. In a way one could say that Rob, Ned, and Sansa, all died because they were blinded by love. Ned didn't want to break his best friends heart. 

 

I think many will disagree with me, but I think Sansa is dead (Starkness). I read a bit on what people thought about the significance of her Direwolve's death. I'm very much on the idea that her Starkness died when she decided not to tell the truth about what happened by the river. She tried to maintain her personal relationship without doing what had to be done. Rob and Ned also suffered from the same reasons. 

I'm not really sure what your thoughts/reasonings are for the sentences I bolded.  Are you pointing at Ned's refusal to tell Robert B. about Cersei's children?  And what personal relationship is 11-12 yr old Sansa trying to maintain rather than 'doing what needs to be done'?  Just for clarification.



#14 Ellfoy

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 06:54 AM

I think that one of Sansa arc is to become more and more a Stark. We begin with her embracing the southern culture that the songs she loved talk about. By ADWD, Sansa has lost her naivete, doesn't believe in the songs anymore, pray more and more to the godswood, get her strenght from the snow and the cold and long for Winterfell and her siblings.



#15 The Weirwoods Eyes

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 06:57 AM

This, as the story has progressed Sansa has become more and more dedicated to the North.  



#16 Queen Sansa Stark

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 06:59 AM

I have a far more different outlook of what the death of Lady means. First of all I feel like it means that Sansa won't be your typical Westerosi Lady and by AFFC she clearly is so unconventional. Plus it amuses me that people seem to forget where Lady is buried. She has been buried in the Crypts of Winterfell. In conclusion wherever Sansa will be there will always and I mean always be a part of her in Winterfell. The fact that Lady has been buried there could be interpreted that Sansa will be the Stark in Winterfell eventually. Lady has been buried in a place where the direwolves of the Kings of Winter have been buried. Curious isn't it that I can twist this notion of Sansa never entering the North again because of Lady's death? :rolleyes:. Sansa isn't Susan Pevensie. Just deal with it. 

 

"I am stronger within the walls of Winterfell". 

 

Never forget this line. 


Edited by The Sun of Dorne, 06 April 2014 - 07:06 AM.


#17 Baelor Swyft

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 07:03 AM

I think Sansa still has her Starkness inside her.


That being said, I'm really hoping not all of the Starks end up on the same side of the final war(s). Whether it's Sansa, Bran, Arya, Jon.... even Rickon... I will be a little disappointed if everyone throws in together and no family members war against each other like is so often a reality in our history.



#18 Winnief

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 07:05 AM

 

The Starks are gone for now. The only remnant of Arya is the "spirit of revenge" that lingers around in her, and her wolf dreams. So I would say Arya is much more dead than Sansa. Sansa has plot armor because George has plans for her. I actually think Sansa will be one of the few survivors of the series.

 

Jon Snow probably still have some things to do. So he isn't as dead as he appears to be. Bran has Greenseer stuff to do behind the Wall (but he's probably never returning). Davos went to look for Rickon, and Rickon might just be the vehicle for Stark restoration. The Starks never were legitimate contenders for the throne though. Robb tried to break free from the Iron Throne because the Greatjon and Theon got all the bannermen of the North and the Riverlands to proclaim him king. If that hadn't happened he'd probably just declared for Stannis.

 

 

Agreed.  I don't expect the Starks to get the IT, (unless half-Stark on his mother's side Jon does,) but I fully expect them to return as the Lords of Winterfell and rightful rulers of the North as part of the Seven Kingdoms, presumably with Rickon as the new Lord since Bran's busy turning into an old god.



#19 Mladen

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 07:06 AM

I have a far more different outlook of what the death of Lady means. First of all I feel like it means that Sansa won't be your typical Westerosi Lady and by AFFC she clearly is so unconventional. Plus it amuses me that people seem to forget where Lady is buried. She has been buried in the Crypts of Winterfell. In conclusion wherever Sansa will be there will always and I mean always be a part of her in Winterfell. The fact that Lady has been buried there could be interpreted that Sansa will be the Stark in Winterfell eventually. Lady has been buried in a place where the direwolves of the Kings of Winter have been buried. Curious isn't it that I can twist this notion of Sansa never entering the North again because of Lady's death? :rolleyes:. Sansa isn't Susan Pevensie. Just deal with it. 

 

I am agreeing with you (to some point) but you are wrong about one thing. Lady wasn't buried in the crypts but in the special place where Kings and Lords of the North buried their faithful servants...

 

And your conclusion, absolutely brilliant :)



#20 Winnief

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 07:11 AM

 

I am agreeing with you (to some point) but you are wrong about one thing. Lady wasn't buried in the crypts but in the special place where Kings and Lords of the North buried their faithful servants...

 

And your conclusion, absolutely brilliant  :)

 

Suggesting, that Sansa might do something important to "serve" her family and/or the future King of the North or Westeros...perhaps by bringing the Vale army North when it's most needed?!?  That could certainly be a 'service' to Rickon AND Jon.