Syri0_F0rel Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 GOT Season 4 Episode 1 and WOW Mercy Chapter Spoiler Warning The show has changed around Arya's kills quite a bit. 1) Harrenhall: In the show Jaqen kills the guards for Arya so she can head outin the book she drops the iron coin and slits the guard's throat herself. 2) Tickler: In the show Jaqen kills the tickler for her. While in the book she catches him in the tavern and turns his back into ground beef while asking him the same torture questions he asked his victims. But this means she doesnt get to do this in the show 3) TV Show coin kill: Arya spots Frey's bragging about sewing Greywinds head to Rob and uses the coin trick on them instead of the guard. 4) Raff the Sweetling: In the Mercy chapter released from WoW Arya lures Raff in and perfectly leads him into the "you'll have to carry me line" to avenge Lommy. 5) TV Show Season Premier (SPOILER) Arya avenges Lommy by killing Raff in the tavern instead of killing him in Braavos (Since the Tickler was killed off early). So the show showed a vengeance kill from a book not yet published to replace the Tickler kill from the book. This leads me to believe Martin released the Mercy chapter to beat the show to the Raff kill. This makes it the first case of a conflict where the show reveals a scene not yet published (granted the setting is different). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SansaSeastar Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 This is a pattern I picked up on a couple of weeks ago to. Was rereading the sample chapters and most chapters revealed a lot of what will most likely already air in s5.- Last Tyrion chapters shows the battle of Meereen in Dany's favor. - The Theon chapter reveals that Stannis is alive with no evidence that Dance and Winds are overlapping each other, I believe George stated that WOW will start 5 minutes after DWD.- The Arianne chapters reveals that the Young Griff conquered Storms End. It's widely believed the battles will be included in season 5, I don't know if those chapters are published for the simple fact that those where the once's cut from Dance and they where completely ready or because George is buying time without the consequences of the show telling his story... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Most of the chapters GRRM has released, if not all were chapters he had already written and had originally intended to put into Dance but that his publisher convinced him to push back to Winds to make more cliffhanger moments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SansaSeastar Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 I know and although i'm not sure since I only started reading after everything was released but the chapters he published for WOW reveal A LOT, does anybody know if he did the same for Feast and Dance or is it a new thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aFeastForDragons Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 The Mercy chapter was definitely released to coincide with the Season 4 premiere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roughspun Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 I know and although i'm not sure since I only started reading after everything was released but the chapters he published for WOW reveal A LOT, does anybody know if he did the same for Feast and Dance or is it a new thing? The chapters pushed back from Dance were read and released by GRRM in what seemed to me a flurry pretty shortly after the publication of Dance. It very much felt like he wanted to compensate for the lack of these climactic chapters in the published book. So, they were mostly released way before the show became a consideration, and speculatively for other reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beastiecube Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 I thought the exact same thing when I watched the episode, especially since she makes him say "you'll have to carry me" before she kills him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdaw Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 I agree that the show using content from the chapter is likely the reason it was released. I doubt that this is the case for other chapters, I don't think other chapters reveal much that anyone didn't expect (besides the unhealthy amount of pink letter theorists). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mushroomshirt Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 This is a pattern I picked up on a couple of weeks ago to. Was rereading the sample chapters and most chapters revealed a lot of what will most likely already air in s5.- Last Tyrion chapters shows the battle of Meereen in Dany's favor. - The Theon chapter reveals that Stannis is alive with no evidence that Dance and Winds are overlapping each other, I believe George stated that WOW will start 5 minutes after DWD.- The Arianne chapters reveals that the Young Griff conquered Storms End. It's widely believed the battles will be included in season 5, I don't know if those chapters are published for the simple fact that those where the once's cut from Dance and they where completely ready or because George is buying time without the consequences of the show telling his story... I recall George saying that the Theon Winds chapter took place before the last Jon Dance chapter. So there is some overlap with Winds and Dance, but probably not as much overlap as for Feast and Dance. This makes sense from the content of the Theon chapter too since it gives clues about the origin of "bastard letter" that we see in Jon's last chapter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tullywacker Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Wasn't it Polliver she kills on the show? I'm confused...I definitely think the release of the Mercy chapter was because of the show. I don't think GRRM wanted to let the show steal the book's thunder, and I don't blame him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laguna80 Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Man, disappointments galore. I thought I might watch this season, but now I don't know. I hope this season doesn't overlap too much with new stuff cause I'll probably end up watching it just to see the purple wedding. I'm VERY concerned for how Oberyn and Gregor's fight is gonna turn out. The book was freaking epic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Dominus Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Im very pleased with Oberyns depiction thus far. A little younger than I hoped him to be, but that's not a deal breaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laguna80 Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Im very pleased with Oberyns depiction thus far. A little younger than I hoped him to be, but that's not a deal breaker. Ya I do too, but considering what they've done with other scenes, I just can't see HBO letting that fight play out like it does in the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooseman Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 This is a pattern I picked up on a couple of weeks ago to. Was rereading the sample chapters and most chapters revealed a lot of what will most likely already air in s5.- Last Tyrion chapters shows the battle of Meereen in Dany's favor. - The Theon chapter reveals that Stannis is alive with no evidence that Dance and Winds are overlapping each other, I believe George stated that WOW will start 5 minutes after DWD.- The Arianne chapters reveals that the Young Griff conquered Storms End. It's widely believed the battles will be included in season 5, I don't know if those chapters are published for the simple fact that those where the once's cut from Dance and they where completely ready or because George is buying time without the consequences of the show telling his story... I hope you're right. This could mean, that D&D and GRRM had made a plan together on how to keep the show from catching up before TWoW, which could also mean that - with the deviations and all - they're going for an alternate ending in Season 7. I'm not making myself really clear there, let me try again. :) If George had released those preview chapters because he knew they'd be included in season 5, then they've been way more aware of when exactly the show might catch up than they led us to believe. So it's not unthinkable that they've made plans on how not to spoil the ending by coming up with an alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrmanakan Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 After them signing up to season 6 the other day and the highest ratings on HBO since sopranos finale, I really wouldn't be surprised if it surpasses 7 seasons. If ratings hold up this season and they got this new thing where they're signing 2 year deals, well doesn't 8 just sound grand. Wishful thinking but as no one can prove me wrong yet I'll just think I'm right.I liked oberyn's depiction too although I didn't know he was into guys too. I thought he was the right age, late 30s early 40s I don't think they'll get to winds for a good season or season and a half. Some parts of the story are ahead yes, but seeing as most of an episode will be joffreys wedding and most of an episode at the wall, well that leaves 7 episodes to end SOS, I'm sure they'll get a lil into dance/ffc how much we'll see. I think arya's will end in bravos. Sandals will prolly end as it did in storm (lysa flies) tyrion escaping KL, briennes a wildcard and bran both will get into ffc/DWD I'd bet. They got a bunch of juicy cersei stuff we didn't see in the books, maybe they'll make it known when exactly she does go mad, which prolly is Joffrey (we don't read from her view til feast and she's pretty mad at that point alrdy). I think were safe on real WoW spoilers for atleast 2 year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sertravisredbeard Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 In Tyrion's introduction to Oberyn in the books he thinks about how it's rumored that Oberyn hooked up with men and women, but there's never an on page confirmation. I guess HBO took the same subtlety avoiding route it did with Loras and Renly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambi76 Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 In Tyrion's introduction to Oberyn in the books he thinks about how it's rumored that Oberyn hooked up with men and women, but there's never an on page confirmation. I guess HBO took the same subtlety avoiding route it did with Loras and Renly. Tyrion thinks about it, Jaime says it out loud (to Tywin when he suggests Oberyn as a groom for Cersei), and IIRC Arianne seems later to think he stole her first boyfriend from her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jhaegon Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Wasn't it Polliver she kills on the show? I'm confused...I definitely think the release of the Mercy chapter was because of the show. I don't think GRRM wanted to let the show steal the book's thunder, and I don't blame him.Yea it was, I just think the show changed it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freetickles Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 This leads me to believe Martin released the Mercy chapter to beat the show to the Raff kill. Yes. My question is - did D&D come up with that kill and getting Polliver to say the "you'll have to carry me" and GRRM liked it so he used it in the Mercy chapter - or did GRRM write the Mercy chapter and tell them about it (probably in brainstorming how to replace her kill of the Tickler in the inn) so they decided to use it on the show? My money is on the former, but wouldn't be surprised either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooseman Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Yes. My question is - did D&D come up with that kill and getting Polliver to say the "you'll have to carry me" and GRRM liked it so he used it in the Mercy chapter - or did GRRM write the Mercy chapter and tell them about it (probably in brainstorming how to replace her kill of the Tickler in the inn) so they decided to use it on the show? My money is on the former, but wouldn't be surprised either way. My money is on the latter. I would be surprised if this wasn't GRRM's original idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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