Game of Thrones Gets 2 Year Renewal

[TimeforTravel]

Interesting. D&D also say they're optimistic that George will get through it. I.e finish the books before the final season. :)

[TheRatCook]

Interesting. D&D also say they're optimistic that George will get through it. I.e finish the books before the final season. :)

Well that would certainly be nice.

[Claudiu Gherganu]

Interesting. D&D also say they're optimistic that George will get through it. I.e finish the books before the final season. :)

I think they are just saying that to be nice honestly, there is no way on this earth or this universe that Martin will have a chance to finish the last book before the series, Winds is more likely but Dream there is no way in hell .

[Bonnie2400]

Same here. Though, i do think extra episodes in later seasons is entirely possible...like 12 episodes for Season 6 and 7 or hell even 14 for Seven...

I suppose it depends how many more events they're planning-and how Martin was planning on ending this thing...

There are 10 books when he finishes writing them bet the series run as long.

[Bonnie2400]

ok mu bet is the joker poisoned the wine hence the reason he got sanska out of there quick. As for maregery preggers think thats premature but sanska kid is now heir to the throne that does throw a spanner.

[Ignorant Bog Woman]

Yes, most of the fans. Or do you think that everyone who watches the show haven't read the books and if they did start to read the books afterwards they don't give a **** how much content is cut from the books?

Speak for and/or delude yourself.

Seven seasons is enough. The showrunners won't have TWOW and ADOS to fully adapt (because the books won't be released in time), so they don't have a lot of detail to work with and fitting in book 6 and 7 into one season each won't be such an issue. AFFC/ADWD will only be one season because there's not enough important content for twenty episodes.

[gmavridis]

Great news. Maybe another record for the TV series

[gmavridis]

The only problem is that unless there is a break in the TV series after book 5 (6 if GRRM) hurries up, the TV series will have to go their own way in the general direction that GRRM will give them. That is not good for us readers of the book, even if there are changes in the original storyline he has in mind. Anyway I don't think a break is possible for TV shows (commerce stuff etc) so I think the seven gods of Westeros must lay their hands in this, so there will be a satisfying solution for both us the readers and for TV viewers.

[Werthead]

Yes, I think most of the fans who watch the show haven't read the books.

We can be more specific than this. ASoIaF has now sold about 30 million copies worldwide. That's 6 million copies per book (actually a bit less, given the first book has likely sold more and there are people who didn't like it so didn't get the later ones, etc). Call it between 5 and 6 million fans worldwide who have read the books.

GoT is watched by 14 million people in the USA. Alone. Another million in the UK. Millions more across Europe, South America, Asia and Australia. The DVDs and Blu-Rays have sold millions more copies. 4 or 5 million people torrent the series every week. Even counting the people who double or triple-dip, I think we can safely say that the book readers are a very small minority of the audience. The notion that HBO should do anything to appease 10 or 20% (and that's being wildly generous) of their audience that would piss off the other 80%+ is pretty silly.

[The Eunuch]

Seven seasons is enough.

Enough for what? For you?

Come on, we're talking about business decisions. There is never enough money for companies.

AFFC/ADWD will only be one season because there's not enough important content for twenty episodes.

Unless you're George Martin in disguise, it's highly presumptuous to say such things. You have no idea of how ASOAIF will end, then you have no idea of what is important or not in those 2000 pages.

[Will Snow]

AFFC/ADWD will only be one season because there's not enough important content for twenty episodes.

Maybe not 20 episodes, but definitely more than 10. There's a lot of stuff in AFFC, paticularly in Cersei's arc, that happens "offscreen," but HBO will likely put it onscreen, because it concers characters that we've followed for 4+ seasons. Mainly the Bronn/Stokeworth, Loras/Dragonstone, and Margarey stuff. All of these will make for really entertaining television.

[The Eunuch]

Maybe not 20 episodes, but definitely more than 10. There's a lot of stuff in AFFC, paticularly in Cersei's arc, that happens "offscreen," but HBO will likely put it onscreen, because it concers characters that we've followed for 4+ seasons. Mainly the Bronn/Stokeworth, Loras/Dragonstone, and Margarey stuff. All of these will make for really entertaining television.

I totally agree with you.

And I am sick of people saying this stuff or that stuff "should be cut" just because they didn't like it... While they have absolutely no idea of how this will end.

Even George Martin said there is enough material in book 5 to split in two seasons...

[Werthead]

Unless you're George Martin in disguise, it's highly presumptuous to say such things. You have no idea of how ASOAIF will end, then you have no idea of what is important or not in those 2000 pages.

No, but David Benioff and D.B. Weiss do, as they know the ending and they know what from AFFC/ADWD is directly important and vital to the end of the story and what material is not. That is informing decisions like thinking it's possible to end in seven seasons or when they indicate to Alex Graves that the show will catch up with the published books at the end of Season 5.

Maybe not 20 episodes, but definitely more than 10.

I agree, but the 'more than 10' bit will almost certainly be in this season, not Season 6. ASoS was really 1.5 seasons, not 2, and if you pulled out the AFFC/ADWD material from this season plus the wholly invented material from this and last season, you'd fit it in without too much trouble. If we say that AFFC/ADWD is also 1.5 seasons, then you're looking at those three books covering three seasons, which appears to be the case (3, 4, 5).

Even George Martin said there is enough material in book 5 to split in two seasons...

Based solely on length, not on story and the fact that the producers may cut more. This is a bit odd, actually, as GRRM was quite forceful in saying in early seasons that he expected the show and the books to diverge quite noticeably by this point. It's possible they've stuck more closely to the story than he'd thought they would and now expects this to continue.

And, as has been said many times now, the problem isn't that AFFC/ADWD could cover two seasons or even more, it's that doing so squeezes the time available to adapt TWoW and ADoS. Even if we accept 8 seasons is still a possibility (and if it is, it's certainly now far less likely than it was a few months ago), having AFFC/ADWD covering two seasons is still enormously risky, as it means giving the last two books a season each. If the last two books are as packed with major events and climaxes as ASoS (which took 1.5 seasons to adapt, effectively), giving them just 10 episodes each is lowballing things. And then of course you run the (unlikely right now but still possible) risk of HBO saying, "Wait, the ratings and DVD sales have dropped a bit, we're going to end at seven after all," and the danger of Benioff and Weiss having to finish the series in just 10 episodes after concluding the AFFC/ADWD material. That would appear to be impossible.

[The Eunuch]

And then of course you run the (unlikely right now but still possible) risk of HBO saying, "Wait, the ratings and DVD sales have dropped a bit, we're going to end at seven after all," and the danger of Benioff and Weiss having to finish the series in just 10 episodes after concluding the AFFC/ADWD material. That would appear to be impossible.

I understand your point, but why is it different now than at the beginning? If the ratings had been bad at the beginning, they would have canceled the show after season 1. If the ratings had decreased after season 2 or 3, they would also have canceled.

There's always a risk.

And now, with such a good reception (critics, ratings, sales, merchandising, international sales), it is less a risk than in the beginning. For me, this is not a proof that they want to end with 7 seasons. For the moment, those rumors are no more than a marketing trick to promote season 4 as the "pivotal seasons you should not miss!!!".

[Beric175]

I watched your video review. You take a lot of your assumptions as an indisputable truth, I must say. Even if Tywin in the books is spending a lot of money on the wedding, etc. he does not necessarily end up being happy about that fact and we don't know either way, as he's not a POV character and he does pay for half the expenses in the show regardless. That does not mean that he can't otherwise think of it as an excessive extravagence. Also, the scene between him and Olenna was meant to remind people more and more of the Iron Bank (which will play a role in Stannis' plotlie in the show so yeah and it at least acknowledges something that has sort of been shoved aside in the later books, namely that the realm is nearly bankrupt, whch always made me question ho these families could all still afford to fight these long and expensive wars) and seeing as most viewers don't have the luxury of being able to make a living off reading the books 5 times a year, obvious, simplifying dialogue is a given on the show and it is necessary, especially with the Oberyn scene, which I found quite intriguing, considering that just because he is openly mocking the Lannisters does not mean he wants them instead of the Mountain. If anything, the show much more openly acknowledges that Oberyn makes the connection between the Lannisters and Ser Gregor and in the books there are no Tywin POVs to give us an insight into what his interactions with Oberyn were like for him. It also reminded viewers of the fact that Myrcella is still in Dorne and that Dorne is a much more egalitarian society, things that are worth mentoning and repeating going forward. It is also nice to see Oberyn trying to anger Cersei because he recognies her arrogance anrepays her in insults that he knows she cannot eturn to the same degree, at least not if she thinks she is no longer the Queen in charge. He recognizes that she gets furious over the tiniest things so when he sees her anger over being called "FORMER Queen regent" he repeatedly calls her that, because he wants to annoy her, thinking that she does not have any regal power anyway and at that moment he is right. People don't usually keep every single detail from the books or the show in mind, and most people would consider Cersei pretty stupid and rash in any situation. Just some Tyrion quotes to explain why I thought the Brienne scene was in character for Cersei in any case: " Cersei is as gentle as King Maegor, as selfless as Aegon the Unworthy, as Wise as Mad Aerys. She never forgets a slight, real or imagined. She takes caution for cowardice and dissent for defiance"; "she thinks herself sly but in truth she is utterly predictable"; "the longer Cersei waits, the angrier she'll become, and anger makes her stupid". If anything her anger over being cheated on by jaime with Brienne is something that would obviously make her mad and we know from AFFC that she makes some truly idiotic decisions when she's angry about Margaery and so is it really such a big change that she would confront Brienne in her anger about loving Jaime? Lets not forget that Brienne is partly what cersei wished she could be (a strong woman who fights on the same terms and the same level as the men do). The material to rationalize shipping Brienne and Jaime is in the books no less and so bringingv this up here in front of a woman who is obviosuly socially awkward enough to not respond immediately and curteously walk away is really not a big stretch from the books.

Lets not forget that people disagree about many of the characters, especially POVs like Cersei and Brienne so to say "this is out of character for them when the characters never had an interaction in the books to begin with is a bit strange, considering tha we don't know how their interactions could have gone had it happened in the books and so we just have to look at those scenes on their own and see how they work on their own (acting, dialogue, etc.) and to me there was really not much worth getting upset about here. To me it's like people saying "killing criminals is not what the REAL batman would do" and I just go "which one?" because he deinitely did in his earliest comicbook appearances (he even carried a gun).

Also, don't always push the blame for what you consider to be faults in Martin's episodes on everyone else (they're not faults actually, it's a nice middle ground between pandering to the hardcore ASOIAF fanbase and trying to get new viewers invested and just because one scene is not full of minor details does not mean it's automatically worthless). Do you know for sure that the Oberyn scene was just accepted like that by D&D? Maybe the points you raised were brought up and after a long discussion it was decided to include someone other than yourself as the audience for the show. Maybe Martin wanted to make it explicit for people who are not book experts and that is his prerogative really. I am also not sure how we would be able to know either way. Not every simplification is bad, nor is it always D&D's decision to do so and if it were, we would not be able to know so I think it's best if everyone stopped trying to impose a mindset on the showrunners because that's not what we're here to look at. We're reviewing the episode in itself: does a scene work for the episode or does it not? Shakespeare had a money-making incentives behind a lot of his works. That's not what we come to judge when we praise Hamlet or Midsummer Night's Dream or Romeo and Juliet because the incentive behind the narrative structure is irrelevant to the overall quality of the final product.

[Newstar]

No, but David Benioff and D.B. Weiss do, as they know the ending and they know what from AFFC/ADWD is directly important and vital to the end of the story and what material is not. That is informing decisions like thinking it's possible to end in seven seasons or when they indicate to Alex Graves that the show will catch up with the published books at the end of Season 5.

Yes. We have Alex Graves saying what many of us have suspected for a while--AFFC/ADWD being finished by the end of Season 5--which dovetails nicely with what D&D have said about seven seasons...although it's true that AFFC/ADWD being finished by the end of Season 5 doesn't rule out three additional seasons for TWOW/ADOS material as opposed to two.

There will be AFFC/ADWD material taking more than one season, but it looks like it will be frontloaded into Season 4, as some of us suspected and as Alex Graves and others from the show have confirmed. For some characters, of course, it looks like all their ADWD material will be in Season 5--Tyrion, Arya, etc.--but for others, it seems as if they'll be covering a fair bit of AFFC/ADWD in Season 4.

I am a little disappointed about Season 5 not dipping into TWOW territory at all (although if it did, it would likely only relate to the sample chapters that have been released). That means we have to wait two years until any TWOW material hits the air. I'd like to think that TWOW will be published before the spring of 2016, but, well...

If TWOW isn't published before the summer of 2015, there's going to be a lot of interest in casting/filming news trickling out as Season 6 is filmed.

[Douglas Dubh]

No, but David Benioff and D.B. Weiss do, as they know the ending and they know what from AFFC/ADWD is directly important and vital to the end of the story and what material is not. That is informing decisions like thinking it's possible to end in seven seasons or when they indicate to Alex Graves that the show will catch up with the published books at the end of Season 5.

I thought the Alex Graves quote was ambiguous. It could also indicate that they won't run out of book material until after Season 5, like halfway through Season 6.

I agree, but the 'more than 10' bit will almost certainly be in this season, not Season 6. . .

And, as has been said many times now, the problem isn't that AFFC/ADWD could cover two seasons or even more, it's that doing so squeezes the time available to adapt TWoW and ADoS. Even if we accept 8 seasons is still a possibility (and if it is, it's certainly now far less likely than it was a few months ago), having AFFC/ADWD covering two seasons is still enormously risky, as it means giving the last two books a season each.

Not necessarily. They could have Season 6 be roughly half ADWD, and half WOW. If they then go 8 seasons, they would have 2 and a half seasons to cover the last two books.

[Newstar]

Another interesting quote from an interview with Alex Graves. Apparently, he's pretty spoiled on post-ADWD material and has been spoiling the actors as to post-ADWD material or even their endgame on "many" occasions:

Alex Graves: One of the things you’re doing besides planning your shots and hoping to put together, is you’re really becoming a bibliography and a road map. You can’t do anything you don’t know what’s going on, but then you have to tell your actors what’s going on, and they’re incredibly grateful for it. A lot of that comes down to sitting down with Dave and Dan and saying, “What happens in season 6? Because I don’t know what I’m doing.” And they’ll tell you what you’re doing. I’ve had many moments with the actors where I’ve taken them aside and told them, “This is what happens next season” or even at the end of the whole series. And they’ll go, “Oh, thank God you told me that. Now I know how to play it.”

So now not only do D&D (and Bryan Cogman) know post-ADWD plot and the ending, but apparently Alex Graves knows as well and has been telling the actors.

...Kind of makes me want to start rewatching the Alex Graves-directed episodes in Season 3 and interviews with the actors for Season 3 and Season 4 (since Alex Graves didn't direct any episodes before Season 3) for clues, LOL.

Also, the fact that he mentions "Season 6" suggests that Season 6 will get into post-ADWD material.

[Colonel Green]

I thought the Alex Graves quote was ambiguous. It could also indicate that they won't run out of book material until after Season 5, like halfway through Season 6.

Not necessarily. They could have Season 6 be roughly half ADWD, and half WOW. If they then go 8 seasons, they would have 2 and a half seasons to cover the last two books.

That's not an option, given that we know 7 seasons is even being considered. 7-8 seasons, at this point, will only matter for how the last two books' content is adapted.

[Douglas Dubh]

That's not an option, given that we know 7 seasons is even being considered. 7-8 seasons, at this point, will only matter for how the last two books' content is adapted.

Not necessarily. We don't know all of the conversations that have been happening between D & D and HBO. It might be that they have already to decide that they will approach it as you suggest, and cut enough to make it all the way through FFC and DWD by the end of Season 5. Or they could be hashing out Season 5 right now, and decide they just can't fit all of FFC and DWD in Season 5, and go back to HBO and tell them they can't get it done in 7 seasons. Nothing is certain until something is definitively announced.