Melifeather Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 My opinion is Coldhands is the man Bran saw sacrificed in front of the heart tree of Winterfell when he first slipped into the tree. I think he will end up being Brandon the Builder. It would also explain how Brandon the Builder could help build so many things over hundreds of years, because he's remained animated over thousands of years. He doesn't have blue eyes, because this is what happens when Starks die. The wolf blood, or the ice within, preserves their spirit. The only way to prevent a Stark from rising after death is to either ward their crypt with iron, or remove the flesh from the bones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of Winters Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 My opinion is Coldhands is the man Bran saw sacrificed in front of the heart tree of Winterfell when he first slipped into the tree. I think he will end up being Brandon the Builder. It would also explain how Brandon the Builder could help build so many things over hundreds of years, because he's remained animated over thousands of years. He doesn't have blue eyes, because this is what happens when Starks die. The wolf blood, or the ice within, preserves their spirit. The only way to prevent a Stark from rising after death is to either ward their crypt with iron, or remove the flesh from the bones.Being Brandon the Builder would be interesting. He lived long enough for Leaf to say they killed him a long time ago and also he says to Bran that he's "your monster. Brandon Stark" could be, as people have theorised, him telling Bran who he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yield. Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 unfortunately,for you when it comes to the highligethed ADWD specifically pages 64-65 disagree with you completely.He is very much aware enough so to tell Bran why his hands are black.Seeing as you have provided to evidnce inferred or otherwise i will go with my initial assessment. He may be a Stark as i said i'm open to it,but as i said Sam would not recognize him as a Stark so there is no need to hide his identity.Which to me logically points to a possible injury of the mouth area. I don't rememebr saying that he is thousands of years old but it's possible ,or that he is Benjen.Also as Meera states on page 63 of ADWD it's easy to acquire black clothes and adorn them i think she could be right and that's a logical thought that CH could have taken the clothes from let's say a dead NW Wight or something. I completely agree. Oh and it was me that compared Aemon's longevity to how the cold preserves living life to how it could be preserving dead being like CH. If Aemon can live to 102 which for Westeros is beyond remarkable than CH could be thousands of years old. Totally agree about the clothes too. Rangers have been killed by wildlings for thousands of years so he could have been getting clothes for centuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yield. Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 My opinion is Coldhands is the man Bran saw sacrificed in front of the heart tree of Winterfell when he first slipped into the tree. I think he will end up being Brandon the Builder. It would also explain how Brandon the Builder could help build so many things over hundreds of years, because he's remained animated over thousands of years. He doesn't have blue eyes, because this is what happens when Starks die. The wolf blood, or the ice within, preserves their spirit. The only way to prevent a Stark from rising after death is to either ward their crypt with iron, or remove the flesh from the bones. I love this. My only problem with it is if CH is the sacrifice that got his throat sliced than how can he talk? Stoneheart can only speak in whispers when she holds her slashed throat shut. Not knocking it, just curious to how that can be overcome. Yes the bones remember so they would have to be burned or crushed in order to stop them. We saw that with Summer while he was eat a wight. (And btw, yuck!) The thing didn't stop moving until he cracked the bones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambottle Jeebus Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 ColdHands= Daemon Blackfire II Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Snowfyre Chorus Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 ColdHands= Daemon Blackfire IINo way. The Fiddler was too much of a ninny. I'd be much more willing to consider Prince Daemon Targaryen - though there is very little evidence for that either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted April 12, 2014 Author Share Posted April 12, 2014 I love this. My only problem with it is if CH is the sacrifice that got his throat sliced than how can he talk? Stoneheart can only speak in whispers when she holds her slashed throat shut. Not knocking it, just curious to how that can be overcome. Yes the bones remember so they would have to be burned or crushed in order to stop them. We saw that with Summer while he was eat a wight. (And btw, yuck!) The thing didn't stop moving until he cracked the bones. I agree and perhaps most important of all Coldhands is a ranger, not only is he wearing bloacks but he greets Sam as a brother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lord of Corpses Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 I agree and perhaps most important of all Coldhands is a ranger, not only is he wearing bloacks but he greets Sam as a brother I agree and perhaps most important of all is that not only is Coldhands a ranger, but he is still the First Ranger and knew the true location of the Black Gate, and greets Bran Stark as kin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNR Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 I agree and perhaps most important of all Coldhands is a ranger, not only is he wearing bloacks but he greets Sam as a brother And he knows the Black Gate exists, how to find it, and how to use it. So far as we have ever been told, that was a secret kept by the ancient Night's Watch and hasn't been known for hundreds of years. Certainly Mormont didn't know it, or he'd have had the Nightfort well sealed with stone long ago. I doubt Bloodraven knew it as LC either, for the same reason. It appears to me that it must have been forgotten long before the Nightfort was abandoned, or said sealing would have happened then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lord of Corpses Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 And he knows the Black Gate exists, how to find it, and how to use it. So far as we have ever been told, that was a secret kept by the ancient Night's Watch and hasn't been known for hundreds of years. Certainly Mormont didn't know it, or he'd have had the Nightfort well sealed with stone long ago. I doubt Bloodraven knew it as LC either, for the same reason. It appears to me that it must have been forgotten long before the Nightfort was abandoned, or said sealing would have happened then. :agree: Thank the old gods that the good queen never found the baby portal for " first night tradition " I think she would have had hacked its face off and burned it with the sacred anointed oils of the Seven! Mother have mercy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfmaid7 Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 I'd say it isn't a matter of not being aware of his hands being black, but rather not being self-conscious about them. If they've been black for a long time he's not going to to be paying much attention to the fact. Its only when he's asked why they're black that he looks at them "as if he'd never seen them before"; its just a figure of speech as he looks at them and explains rather sadly. As to the scarf, as its now established he's dead there's no reason to conceal a wound (and anyway his voice doesn't sound as if his mouth is damaged), so its got to be a question of concealing his identity. Granted he's wearing it when he picks up Sam and Gilly, but the Stark features are pretty distinctive - Craster remember figures Jon for a Stark when he first sees him.Totally agree with your first statement,which is backed up by the context of the text and the intelligent reply by CH's to Bran as to why his hands are black.As to the second i have to disagree i think him having some injury to that area will scare the children and frankly make his appearence more scary.Plus as i pointed out and you restated there is no need for the scarf with Gilly and Sam. CH's only has his mouth covered and i think even the Stark looks as pronounced as they are might come through. Now i'm open to him being a Stark but there are valid points that hiding his identity is not the main reason.True from the characters pov no mention of impaired speech but his there may not be the type of damage that impair speech. Why do you think Coldhands does not know what he is talking about when it comes the white walkers, and you know more? Old Nan's stories have nothing to do with CHs words. I would say he knows pretty well what he is talking about.As to burning the cold out; I reread when Sam puts the fire in the wights (SP) mouth, and that is it. When the light went out, the wight was dead. That was it. I think the main reason for covering the face is for the reader. Mystery. Bran could recognise an old Stark probably, but what does that matter? Ok lets start with how illogical his statement is " no footprints in the snow means WWs?" nuff said with that.Also,we have determine by text that the Wights bring "The cold"/"The cold" brings them as well.The Wights are the only things present at the scene.Even when they were in the cave and Bran was in Summer and a Crow Wights were the only things he saw outside the cave. So let me amend my statement it's either he is totally or partially ignorant based on that illogical statement or it was to strike fear in Bran and Co. Let's go to your second point, no. He didn't "just die". When his head erupted,he let go. Sam noticed that the glow was gone, but Small Paul was still up and burning.So there is a window where it could be theorized that lets say we throw some water after the blue glow is gone what will happen? Will they just fall and die? What Mel did to V6 in Orell's eagle springs to mind. If you also go to the Bran chapter where Leaf lit the Wights. Meera when reconting to Bran said " She killed them" Leaf responded by saying " I burned them. So my point is,after the Blue glow is gone lets say someone threw some water on the Wights, will they just fall down dead or be like CH's. I completely agree. Oh and it was me that compared Aemon's longevity to how the cold preserves living life to how it could be preserving dead being like CH. If Aemon can live to 102 which for Westeros is beyond remarkable than CH could be thousands of years old. Totally agree about the clothes too. Rangers have been killed by wildlings for thousands of years so he could have been getting clothes for centuries.Dido Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfmaid7 Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 I love this. My only problem with it is if CH is the sacrifice that got his throat sliced than how can he talk? Stoneheart can only speak in whispers when she holds her slashed throat shut. Not knocking it, just curious to how that can be overcome. Yes the bones remember so they would have to be burned or crushed in order to stop them. We saw that with Summer while he was eat a wight. (And btw, yuck!) The thing didn't stop moving until he cracked the bones. Agree with these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slayer420 Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 just to let you guys know The lord of corpes is TRJS back from the dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfmaid7 Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 just to let you guys know The lord of corpes is TRJS back from the dead. Alot of us i think figured as much ,we'll try not to feed him.I lost track of the many incarnations. But i think i will nickname him " The artist formerly known as (Insert name here). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ls Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 I've scattered some of these ideas around various threads,but I hope to assemble them into a dedicated thread over the weekend.I'd be interested to hear what you think is going on with the spearwives? If I had to guess, I'd say it's further evidence that Mance (with Melisandre's knowledge?) is gaslighting Jon and his going to Winterfell has nothing to do with rescuing farya. He's been planning this for a awhile. Maybe the spearwives he goes with have been in on it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redriver Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 I agree and perhaps most important of all Coldhands is a ranger, not only is he wearing bloacks but he greets Sam as a brother I think it Redwyn,the ranger Sam reads about in CoK should be considered.He "traded with the CotF" and certainly lived a long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redriver Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 If I had to guess, I'd say it's further evidence that Mance (with Melisandre's knowledge?) is gaslighting Jon and his going to Winterfell has nothing to do with rescuing farya. He's been planning this for a awhile. Maybe the spearwives he goes with have been in on it too. Where is all this Mance mistrust coming from?He could have killed Jon several times,but chose not to.We don't have Mance's POV but you don't unite 100,000 people and lead them to safety from the Others if you have nefarious purposes in mind. His enemy is the Others.They are what he's against even if it seems he's going rogue.He did rescue fArya.Why bother doing it if its not part of your overall objective? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted April 12, 2014 Author Share Posted April 12, 2014 I don't think its a case of distrusting Mance per se, but rather that he has his own agenda in all of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armstark Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Ok lets start with how illogical his statement is " no footprints in the snow means WWs?" nuff said with that.Also,we have determine by text that the Wights bring "The cold"/"The cold" brings them as well.The Wights are the only things present at the scene.Even when they were in the cave and Bran was in Summer and a Crow Wights were the only things he saw outside the cave. So let me amend my statement it's either he is totally or partially ignorant based on that illogical statement or it was to strike fear in Bran and Co. Actually what Coldhands said was that no footprints does not mean that nobody was there because the WW's leave no footprints. How is that statement illogical? And I am sorry but you determined that the Wights bring the Cold, you should not assume that everybody agrees with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted April 12, 2014 Author Share Posted April 12, 2014 Actually what Coldhands said was that no footprints does not mean that nobody was there because the WW's leave no footprints. How is that statement illogical? And I am sorry but you determined that the Wights bring the Cold, you should not assume that everybody agrees with you. Got to agree with this one. We're told all the way through from multiple sources that its the white walkers who come with the cold or who bring the cold (and if we go with the Ice Dragon precedent its the latter) and that the wights are their thralls. As to the burning, its destruction not a driving out of evil spirits, yes Small Paul moved after being dosed with hot coals but as I pointed out before burning things do move - screw up a piece of paper, toss it on a fire and watch how it moves. Coldhands is different because he is not and never was a wight, but something else and most likely a Stark hence his concealing his face. As I said before thats why he concealed it when he met Sam, because the Stark features are so distinctive that Craster, who'd never claped eyes on Jon before, recognised him instantly as a Stark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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