King Benjen II Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 Everything GRRM needs to be able to use the Blackfyres however he so chooses is in the ASIOAF books. Not counting the short stories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modesty Lannister Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 This is just pure conjecture, but I for one feel that Dany won't reach Westeros until Dream, and that therefore Aegon being (f)Aegon and also a Blackfyre at that won't really matter until then--meanwhile, Martin has the entirety of Winds, utilizing POV's with historical "look-backs" such as Tyrion, Jaime, and Bran to start bringing in the pertinent information regarding the Blackfyres--If Winds ends up not containing any background information on the Blackfyres, then, yes, I will have been swayed by your argument--not to say that your argument doesn't stand as it is right now, I'm just arguing to give it a little time and see what Winds brings us I agree with what you say, but so far there is nothing to suggest Blackfyres are in the game. That's why I'm puzzled by speculations about fAegon. I think they are way premature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyryan Lannister Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 I agree with what you say, but so far there is nothing to suggest Blackfyres are in the game. That's why I'm puzzled by speculations about fAegon. I think they are way premature. Agree to disagree then :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modesty Lannister Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Agree to disagree then :cheers: Of course. I will never harm any of my kin. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyryan Lannister Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Of course. I will never harm any of my kin. :-) Well, there's one late monarch that I think we both would have gladly punched in the face :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WierWood Wolf Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 I've just given you a story where the Blackfyres are mentioned. They are mentioned quite extensively in Dance. The Golden Company, beneath the gold the bitter steel and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yield. Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Only by comparison to who he was glamored as before. Remember, Mance just switched from being Rattleshirt, who is described as, "a small man." Sure, he's bigger. He's bigger than Rattleshirt, who is a little squirt, and whom he (until then) was glamoured to appear as. The direct quote from SoS is: No part of this reminds me of Rhaegar. The sum of it surely doesn't. True. I forgot how small the Lord of Bones was. To play devil' advocate lets see how Bran's description of Jon in AGOT match a older Mance.I'm on my phone so I can't quote.But it would be nice to compare. I looked quickly but couldn't find where it was and all the search words I could think of turned up nil about his height or looks other than he looks like Arya and a young Ned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yield. Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 The Blackfyres have been mentioned in ASOIAF and there is foreshadowing of Blackfyres returning such as Meribald telling the story about the black dragon sign, that was torn down by a Targ loyalist, during the Rebellion; and then washing up rusted red on Quiet Isle. There are numerous mentions to Blackfyres throughout the books. One I remember quite clearly about how Aegon IV legitimised all his bastards and the havoc it caused on the kingdom. The battle of the Red Grass is mentioned. Can't for the life me remember who was speaking but since I only ever read The Hedge Knight once years ago (remembering little and less about the story) and I know about the Blackfyres that means they are in the main books. This is just pure conjecture, but I for one feel that Dany won't reach Westeros until Dream, and that therefore Aegon being (f)Aegon and also a Blackfyre at that won't really matter until then--meanwhile, Martin has the entirety of Winds, utilizing POV's with historical "look-backs" such as Tyrion, Jaime, and Bran to start bringing in the pertinent information regarding the Blackfyres--If Winds ends up not containing any background information on the Blackfyres, then, yes, I will have been swayed by your argument--not to say that your argument doesn't stand as it is right now, I'm just arguing to give it a little time and see what Winds brings us I am totally with you on this. I will be let down if Aegon isn't a Blackfyre because so far his Henry Tudor to the three York Baratheon brothers. They are mentioned quite extensively in Dance. The Golden Company, beneath the gold the bitter steel and so on. Yes it was made pretty clear that Aegon 'Bittersteel' Rivers was a Blackfyre and again the Red Grass battle is mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addicted to snow Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 It might also be the muscles. (I seem to recall you injecting yourself with steroids.) Steroids: Great way to burn fat, loose weight, get a little more cut… I still take them routinely, but no one has ever described me as having big muscles. I have lost 15 lbs (and was not fat)… Though come to think of it, much of that weight loss is probably due to the reduced size of my testicles... Still, I think every male over the age of 25 should look into it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WierWood Wolf Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 True. I forgot how small the Lord of Bones was. I looked quickly but couldn't find where it was and all the search words I could think of turned up nil about his height or looks other than he looks like Arya and a young Ned. The physical descriptions of Jon and Robb are in the first chapter of GoT, Bran. Jon is described as Gray eyes almost black. Thin, graceful and quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modesty Lannister Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Well, there's one late monarch that I think we both would have gladly punched in the face :devil: No. He is played by Charles Dance. And Charles Dance is God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modesty Lannister Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 There are numerous mentions to Blackfyres throughout the books. One I remember quite clearly about how Aegon IV legitimised all his bastards and the havoc it caused on the kingdom. The battle of the Red Grass is mentioned. Can't for the life me remember who was speaking but since I only ever read The Hedge Knight once years ago (remembering little and less about the story) and I know about the Blackfyres that means they are in the main books. I am totally with you on this. I will be let down if Aegon isn't a Blackfyre because so far his Henry Tudor to the three York Baratheon brothers. Yes it was made pretty clear that Aegon 'Bittersteel' Rivers was a Blackfyre and again the Red Grass battle is mentioned. Yes, but one has to know the whole story to identify a Blackfyre. And Golden Company backing a Blackfyre is too obvious to be true. However, I do admit there are many clues for someone who read around ASOIAF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyryan Lannister Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 No. He is played by Charles Dance. And Charles Dance is God. Was talking about Joff not Tywin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WierWood Wolf Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Steroids: Great way to burn fat, loose weight, get a little more cut… I still take them routinely, but no one has ever described me as having big muscles. I have lost 15 lbs (and was not fat)… Though come to think of it, much of that weight loss is probably due to the reduced size of my testicles... Still, I think every male over the age of 25 should look into it...You had 71/2 lb testicles, wow good thing they reduced in size. Finding pants to fit would be annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modesty Lannister Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Was talking about Joff not Tywin... Mea culpa. Deepest apologies. It's way past my bedtime. I'd give him a Tyrion Winterfell slap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNR Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 There are numerous mentions to Blackfyres throughout the books. One I remember quite clearly about how Aegon IV legitimised all his bastards and the havoc it caused on the kingdom. Another: Barristan Selmy ended the last Blackfyre uprising by slaying Maelys the Monstrous on the Stepstones. The Blackfyres are quite well established in the books. You had 71/2 lb testicles, wow good thing they reduced in size. Finding pants to fit would be annoying. I follow your math, but I think it may be jumping to conclusions to assume AtS only has two testicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yield. Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 I'm not sure if Martin was a Boy Scout but I know he was an avid reader and it wouldn't surprise me that he has read a great deal of Kipling. The Jungle Book story that kind of sealed the deal for me was the story involving the ancient white cobra with red eyes guarding the treasure under the ancient temple. The similarities to Bloodraven couldn't be coincidental IMO. Finding these possible references didn't surprise me because I think he's referenced other works of literature and myth throughout the series.The real reason I found it interesting was my attempt to find an analog to Kaa the 200 year old rock python. If the white cobra was Bloodraven, then would GRRM's Kaa possibly be another hidden Targaryen? Or in other words would his "rock python" who sheds his skin be another hidden dragon like Bloodraven who may also be a skinchanger. The fact that GRRM also just introduced us to another ranger called Stonesnake I think is another hidden clue.Probably because I am somewhat influenced by Bran Vras' theories concerning Val and her possible association with "House Flint" made me wonder if the rock python or the stonesnake might be Val if indeed she is a descendant of the Flints. One thing I noted about Val is as the books progress she seems to have quite the influence on Stannis, Jon, and the other knights who are clamoring to marry her. One of Kaa's abilities was he could hypnotize others, it makes me wonder if Val is using a glamor to subtly influence the characters around her. Val also undergoes quite a change of appearance in ADWD both her clothes going to perhaps a ceremonial white (complete with white weirwood brooch) to her eyes changing from grey to blue. Perhaps Val has also "shed her skin" in this regard. Probably crackpot but it's something worth paying attention to. While on the subject with Val possibly being a hidden "dragon", I've also been considering Alysanne Targaryen's back story and her journey up to the North. As far as I know she is the first Targaryen to make the trip north. Not knowing how long she was up there, I wonder if the tower she stayed in with the gold battlements might have also been a place she could have secretly given birth. Sounds crazy I know but the only other place in literature I could find involving golden battlements or crenellations is from Plato's description of a Poseiden's temple in Atlantis, where Cleitos gave birth to ten sons for Poseidon. Given the proximity of Alysanne's tower to the lands inhabited by the Flints made me wonder if perhaps Alysanne had a tryst while up north and secretly gave birth to an ancestor of Val. Perhaps making Val and other relatives of hers the stone dragons that AAR is supposed to waken. ETA: gold crenellations or battlements apparently is also a reference to Tyche the Greek goddess of luck and some cities have adopted it on their crests. Not sure how that fits in with anything but thought I'd add that piece of info. This whole idea about Val is completely intriguing. I love the 'waking dragons from Flint stone' motif. Could you point me to the Bran Vras site that deals with this? I read his Hous Clos a while ago but I never found this stuff. She might just be Kaa. Although I just remembered that vision of Jojen's about the wolf in stone chains and the raven trying to liberate him. The image of a winged wolf, at a stretch, could be dragon in the sense that it's a predator that flies. Okay I will stop crackpotting now.. It's more the breaking free of stone that caught my attention. Incidentally the first of the 9 sons of Cleito and Poseidon is Atlas. Atlas is the father of the Pleiades, better know as the seven heavenly sisters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyryan Lannister Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 This one is nearing its end; Heresy 109 is up and running. This week, we have a guest OP by King Benjen II surrounding the little discussed Fire aspects of Heresy. See you all over there Happy Heresy :commie: :commie: :commie: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 When Qhorin was describing Mance to Jon, Jon was comparing himself to Mance saying, "No more than me." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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