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Brown Ben Plumm and Dany? (Tyrion sample chapter).


Carey Snow

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The last time that Plumm and Dany met (after her wedding with Hizdahr) they had a heated exchange. Plumm tried to be charming and Dany was obviously upset. It ended with this exchange:



"I have learned that much. One day I must be sure to thank you for the lesson."



Brown Ben's eyes crinkled up. "No need. I know the sort o' thanks you have in mind." He bowed again and moved away.




Now in the Tyrion sample chapter we see that Plumm is going to try to go back to team Dany. Jorah even says he will vouch for him. But how in the heck is this going to work? Dany does not seem the forgiving type.



Plus, will this sink Jorah's chances of getting back in Dany's good graces? I would feel horrible for Jorah if Dany lumps him in with Plumm after all he has done to get back to her with Tyrion.


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I think that she will see clearly the advantages of Tyrion and the company of Brown Ben and she won't execute any of them.

If/when Dany makes it back to Mereen, it seems more her style to listen to Jorah, Tyrion, and Brown Ben in turn, before deciding, I figure her implied threat:

The last time that Plumm and Dany met (after her wedding with Hizdahr) they had a heated exchange. Plumm tried to be charming and Dany was obviously upset. It ended with this exchange:

"I have learned that much. One day I must be sure to thank you for the lesson."

Brown Ben's eyes crinkled up. "No need. I know the sort o' thanks you have in mind." He bowed again and moved away.

IT will be a death sentence for Plumm. I do think however she will forgive Jorah, and possibly accept Tyrion as a strategic asset. Just think Tyrion has a lot more to do before he dies.

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The last time that Plumm and Dany met (after her wedding with Hizdahr) they had a heated exchange. Plumm tried to be charming and Dany was obviously upset. It ended with this exchange:

"I have learned that much. One day I must be sure to thank you for the lesson."

Brown Ben's eyes crinkled up. "No need. I know the sort o' thanks you have in mind." He bowed again and moved away.

Now in the Tyrion sample chapter we see that Plumm is going to try to go back to team Dany. Jorah even says he will vouch for him. But how in the heck is this going to work? Dany does not seem the forgiving type.

Plus, will this sink Jorah's chances of getting back in Dany's good graces? I would feel horrible for Jorah if Dany lumps him in with Plumm after all he has done to get back to her with Tyrion.

It's really about how Barristan feels. I think Dany may be gone a while.

I mean, say she gathers a bunch of Dothraki. They're, what, a month's ride from Maureen?

And if she decides to fly to Qarth or Asshai? How long will that take?

Considering we have the Yunkai, the Pare Mare, Dragons, the Ironborn, the Volantians, the New Ghisians, and Maester Marwyn's blood magic, all descending upon Maureen, she's likely to find a big diseased smoldering pile of ash when she returns

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If/when Dany makes it back to Mereen, it seems more her style to listen to Jorah, Tyrion, and Brown Ben in turn, before deciding, I figure her implied threat:

IT will be a death sentence for Plumm. I do think however she will forgive Jorah, and possibly accept Tyrion as a strategic asset. Just think Tyrion has a lot more to do before he dies.

If BBP is going to die, he's not going back. If he's not going back, he's going to kill Jorah, Tyrion and Penny and wash his hands clean of the whole affair. He's not dumb.

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If BBP is going to die, he's not going back. If he's not going back, he's going to kill Jorah, Tyrion and Penny and wash his hands clean of the whole affair. He's not dumb.

BBP may not be dumb, but he's definitely not as smart as Tyrion, and Tyrion is in high "Game of Thrones" mode in the chapter from WoW. BBP will be lulled into thinking Dany will forgive him because of their past "affinity" for each other, and her dragons' affinity toward him. Dany will neither forget, nor forgive BBP's betrayal when they cross paths again. Tyrion in the meantime is winning the big oaf's support for Dany's cause, winning himself yet another reason for Dany's acceptance.

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BBP may not be dumb, but he's definitely not as smart as Tyrion, and Tyrion is in high "Game of Thrones" mode in the chapter from WoW. BBP will be lulled into thinking Dany will forgive him because of their past "affinity" for each other, and her dragons' affinity toward him. Dany will neither forget, nor forgive BBP's betrayal when they cross paths again. Tyrion in the meantime is winning the big oaf's support for Dany's cause, winning himself yet another reason for Dany's acceptance.

Tyrion isn't going to trick BBP. It sounds like he's already sold on going back, and it looks like he's going to try to seize the prisoners to prove his loyalty. He's not going to die in Mereen.

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Tyrion isn't going to trick BBP. It sounds like he's already sold on going back, and it looks like he's going to try to seize the prisoners to prove his loyalty. He's not going to die in Mereen.

Just wondering why you think Tyrion is sold on going back... or if you meant BBP, why either of them would want to look back?

*edit*: Oh!!! did you mean BBP is already switching sides and trying to regain Dany's favor by recapturing the hostages?

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Just wondering why you think Tyrion is sold on going back... or if you meant BBP, why either of them would want to look back?

*edit*: Oh!!! did you mean BBP is already switching sides and trying to regain Dany's favor by recapturing the hostages?

Ooops yeah. Sorry I forgot this was General and needed to use the spoiler tag.

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Ooops yeah. Sorry I forgot this was General and needed to use the spoiler tag.

You are fine :) This is the WoW section. Just wondering if you could change my mind. Maybe BBP was starting to think about switching sides again even before Tyrion got to him. If you feel like it, please explain, if not, sorry if I made you feel like you said something wrong.

My apologies if so. :bowdown:

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Brown Ben Plumm turning cloak and helping Barristan's forces will go a long way to putting him back in Dany's good books. Without them and the Windblown, Dany's forces would have been in a lot more trouble. What would be even better would be if BBP os able to free Daario or the other hostages. Particularly Daario. However, I personally believe that if they arent dead already, the Windblown will havr freed them (which was why Barristan approached them with Drinkwater and Yronwood anyway

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You are fine :) This is the WoW section. Just wondering if you could change my mind. Maybe BBP was starting to think about switching sides again even before Tyrion got to him. If you feel like it, please explain, if not, sorry if I made you feel like you said something wrong.

My apologies if so. :bowdown:

Oh haha no need to apologize. Between all the threads and forums, sometimes I lose track of where I am (not that it every happens in real life ... *whistles and looks away*).

As to BBP not dying, well the end of the new tyrion excerpt kind of did it for me. Jorah stabbing the Yunkish general's envoy through the throat (theoretically refusing orders) kind of put the nail in the coffin of staying with the Yunkish, on top of the talk of the Yunkish not knowing they had already lost ("pale mare and others running through the camp). BBP announces they "were always queen's men." Obviously Dany might not see it that way, but if the Second Sons seize the catapaults like Barristan wants them to and/or they rescue the prisoners -- Dany will *not* be happy when she finds out Groleo was executed -- they will probably find their way back into her good graces, even BBP. Maybe she will finally listen to *someone* when they say "Don't trust sellswords."

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Oh haha no need to apologize. Between all the threads and forums, sometimes I lose track of where I am (not that it every happens in real life ... *whistles and looks away*).

As to BBP not dying, well the end of the new tyrion excerpt kind of did it for me. Jorah stabbing the Yunkish general's envoy through the throat (theoretically refusing orders) kind of put the nail in the coffin of staying with the Yunkish, on top of the talk of the Yunkish not knowing they had already lost ("pale mare and others running through the camp). BBP announces they "were always queen's men." Obviously Dany might not see it that way, but if the Second Sons seize the catapaults like Barristan wants them to and/or they rescue the prisoners -- Dany will *not* be happy when she finds out Groleo was executed -- they will probably find their way back into her good graces, even BBP. Maybe she will finally listen to *someone* when they say "Don't trust sellswords."

\

I definitely could see that happening.

After reading other threads, I'm starting to wonder if Dany will even make it back to Mereen. I mean she is way North in the Dothraki sea. Even though she can ride Drogon, she can't control him. I think, maybe the war will be over before she can get there.

About BBP... I still think if she ever crosses paths with him, he is Drogon Toast. :P

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I think after reading "The Princess and the Queen" that BBP seems set to be a Dragonseed and the third dragon rider after Dany and Tyrion. GRRM appears to have that possibility with the "two drops" comment from Tyrion. Of course this would also give GRRM the option of having BBP turning his dragon over to Aegon's side (like the Ulf and Hugh) once they return to Westeros, and we'd have a dance ala TPatQ.

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Am I the only one who got the impression the original cloak turning was a ruse that Dany knew about all along? Granted, her absence would seem to complicate things since I don't think she told anyone else but it I got the impression they "turned" as a ruse so that someone would be in place to deal with the issue of hostages. i have to check to see since I don't remember but did they turn before or after the hostages were given over? Also, if not an idea worked out with Dany, perhaps he and Daarrio cooked it up? He doesn't strike me as the type to go into an enemy camp without some kind of ace up his sleeve.


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BBP will be dragon food. Tyrion will trick him into his death by Viserion (see Lann the Clever). Viserion is Tyrion's to ride. I think Tyrion (like his siblings) has that two drops of dragon blood too. The Plumm ancestor with two drops of dragon blood is Lord Viserys Plumm who is most probably son of Eleana Targaryen and Aegon IV. I think Lannisters have an ancestor probably a daughter of Visery Plumm.


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Am I the only one who got the impression the original cloak turning was a ruse that Dany knew about all along? Granted, her absence would seem to complicate things since I don't think she told anyone else but it I got the impression they "turned" as a ruse so that someone would be in place to deal with the issue of hostages. i have to check to see since I don't remember but did they turn before or after the hostages were given over? Also, if not an idea worked out with Dany, perhaps he and Daarrio cooked it up? He doesn't strike me as the type to go into an enemy camp without some kind of ace up his sleeve.

Dany pretty much tells Brown Ben he is dragon food should they meet again when Plumm visits with the Yunkish nobles. She also thinks, after Daario tells her he has gone over, that she was wrong to doubt Daario, and Brown Ben is the betrayal for gold. I suppose Daario could have been in on it, but I very much doubt it. BBP is an opportunist. Even if Dany accepts him back, she knows how fickle he is, and will be unlikely to fully trust him again (which is why he needs to do something like rescue the hostages, so that he will at least be taken back).

Btw, in answer to your question, he turns cloak before tge hostages are taken

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Daenerys isn't going to kill BBP. He has Ser Jorah, Tyrion and Ser Barristan to vouch for him when she eventually returns. Furthermore she's smart enough to know that BBP will be useful. The Second Sons are a company of 500 men strong with a very long tradition; She'd be foolish to throw them away.



500 good swords is always a nice addition to her army. Especially since they provide something (apart from experience) that is very rare in her army, namely heavy cavalry. Think about it, if all things work out in the best way possible for Team Dany (and I'm sure they will), she'll have the best light cavalry in the world (Dothraki), some of the best infantry (Unsullied + Freedmen) and the finest navy this world has ever seen (combination of Volantinian Fleet and the Iron Fleet). But she's lacking on heavy cavalry.



Furthermore if she's triumphant she basically guarentees herself of the Second Sons enduring loyalty. They can't go back to the Free Cities (they won't hire them thanks to Mero) and the Yunkai'i will be destroyed. They would have to venture far to the east, passed the Dothraki Sea to get work. And none of those contracts in the far east will ever be as profitable as what Tyrion has promised them.



And Tyrion's promises are only the tip of the iceberg. There's the remaining wealth of slaversbay that might be plundered (Yunkai and the pyramids of the major Meereenese families who supported the Harpy is a certainty, New Ghis is on their way and even settlements like Tolos, Mantarys and Elliria could get taken by Dany's super force), the riches of Volantis and of course Westeros proper. And looking at Dany's huge army (and her dragons) they stand a fairly good chance at winning. It's like a sellswords match made in heaven.


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