Dating 9: resolving the cliffhangers of the last thread

[Kalbear]

Have to even concentrate on not getting too excited at the scent of mozzarella.

So many bad thoughts at what mozzarrella actually is.

[karaddin]

haha I won't lie, I thought, "Wow, did you guys actually discuss that you would be having pizza, or have you already had pizza and are just assuming there will be more, or..." haha never once did I stop and think you might be having the kid of pizza you eat. I mean... pizza with crust and sauce from Italy and all that. haha

Brook and I had essentially talked it out and agreed on when we would be having pizza, granted it was via innuendo and such rather than explicit but my confidence was about 95% that I was right :p

Jesus. Chats. I'm sorry you ran into such a douche. I can honestly say that I haven't QUITE had someone so rude contact me, thank God. I was slightly offended when a guy decided to stop talking to me because he found out I had kids - stupid reason, IMO, but in the end at least he's being upfront about what he wants and I would prefer the shitty truth than the happy lie. I thanked him and moved on.

I'm actually going to defend the bolded. There are multiple reasons that someone having kids might be a deal breaker for you, and when that's the case it's best to be up front and follow it strictly. You might be someone who is really not a kids person and can't deal with them. You might be exceptionally needy and not willing to deal with a partner with whom you will always be #2 behind their kids. You might have already had a serious relationship with someone with kids, developed a parental relationship with those kids only to lose them when the relationship failed and not be willing to risk that again. There are a ton of complex reasons why someone might not want to functionally end up with kids, just as they may not want to have them themselves.

Elements of all those examples apply to me, and we're still trying to navigate how I fit into her family with the kids, and I don't think I would have been remotely douchey if I hadn't pursued the relationship because I wasn't willing to deal with all that. It was supposed to be a deal breaker for me, and I ignored my own deal breaker (and I'm glad I did, but if we broke up for whatever reason it would be back on the deal breaker list unless I met someone else as special as her).

[brook]

I'm not going to lie having kids would be a dealbreaker for me in a potential partner despite the fact I have three of my own.

On the other hand if someone just stops talking to you after finding out you have kids rather than being honest about the reasons they can't/don't want to do it than they are absolutely in the mega-douche category.

[karaddin]

Oh I didn't twig to that, yeah just stopping talking wouldn't be OK - I took it as saying they aren't interested with that in mind and stopping talking not just going silent.

[Inigima]

On the other hand, if you have kids, I would expect that to be in your profile. That can be a really big deal to people.

[Arkhangel]

Kids would be an absolute deal-breaker for me too, and I don't think there's anything douchey about that at all - quite the opposite. A potentially serious partner with kids is a big commitment, and if it's not one you're willing or able to make then not getting involved from the beginning is the responsible thing to do.

[Littlefingers In The Air]

Kids aren't necessarily a deal breaker for me. I've had a few relationships with ladies who had children. For me, it usually comes down to the relationship with the father. I'm not exactly anxious to date someone who's being stalked by a crazy ass baby daddy. But if it's just that they're not together and they're both functioning, well adjusted adults, I see no reason to hold back, personally.

On the other hand, if I were to make a hypothetical list of the perfect woman for LITA and two women met everything on that list, the one difference being one has kids and the other doesn't, I'd probably choose to date the latter. And that's for purely selfish reasons regarding having future kids. Jokes on me when it turns out she does not want any. :P

[kungtotte]

Am I the only one who doesn't really have a problem with it? It's 2014, if you want to date people who are older than 20 it's more than likely that they already have kids. It's not like you're being asked to adopt them after the third date.

The more important point is the one that Chataya brings up about whether or not you or your date want kids/more kids in the future.

[smegma]

The kids/no kids thing is one of the main reasons why I could never do online dating. I have a 19 year-old daughter, and she's the most important thing in my life. But - and this is just me - as a potential partner, I never wanted that to be a part of other's initial assessment of my compatibility. On paper (or your screen, in this case) being a single mom can be a BIG FRIGGEN DEAL to many men. I would say that not a single man that I have dated would have been interested in a single mom had they not known me already and understood my role as a parent and as a woman and all my other attributes. I'd feel the same way about a single dad, where I would need to be "sold" on his full package before I'd ever consider dating a man with children.

But I also would NEVER want to spring that on a man after the courtship/dating process has begun, as it looks like I'd be hiding something and frankly I'd walk away too if it wasn't told to me upfront. So instead of checking a yes/no box on kids, I made a conscious choice to not engage in online dating and instead meet them organically. I do say that from a point of privilege though, as I am very sociable and have never lacked for dating opportunities.

[Littlefingers In The Air]

LITA - you'd want to do an independent assessment with each hypothetical lady as to whether or not SHE WANTS kids or more kids. Personally, I was "one and done" and very upfront about it. Just because someone has one kid doesn't mean they want more, and just because someone doesn't have kids doesn't mean they want any.

That's fair enough, your point is something I was just thinking about. I feel like this is something that'd be on a hypothetical list of mines anyways, so it'd need to be gauged on an individual basis.

[Arkhangel]

Am I the only one who doesn't really have a problem with it? It's 2014, if you want to date people who are older than 20 it's more than likely that they already have kids. It's not like you're being asked to adopt them after the third date.

The more important point is the one that Chataya brings up about whether or not you or your date want kids/more kids in the future.

Where do you live that most people over 20 have children? If anything I think that in 2014 people, particularly people in their 20s and even 30s, are less likely to have children than they used to be. I'm in my early, almost mid-twenties (eek) and I don't have any friends around my age who have had children. I realise that's not the rule and may not be the norm in many places, but I don't think it's difficult to find dateable people over 20 who don't have children in many if not most areas.

[kungtotte]

I exaggerated a bit for dramatic effect, admittedly, but here around Stockholm I'd say it's even money on people already having kids. Maybe not as young as 20, but 25 for sure.

[smegma]

In Chicago, most eligible men in their 20's and 30's do not have children - at least (and here's the important part) the ones that I would consider dating. But, there's of course exceptions. I'd like to think I'm in the same boat as a single mom, since my situation is unique to the social strata that I am in - the vast majority of my friends did not start having children until their mid-thirties. So I know a guy with a kid might be a great man and worth pursuing, but it's certainly not the norm for my preference, nor would I expect it to be theirs in my case.

[MinDonner]

"Wants kids" is WAY more offputting than "has kids", in fact it's an instant dealbreaker if I see that box ticked on a profile. Rather hoping that this will become less and less of a problem as I approach 40 and the guys who want kids have a younger target age-bracket selected.

[Inigima]

Why? My son doesn't live with me, and he goes to college next year. That's vastly different from having a 3 year old who rarely sees the other parent.

I think "I have kids" should be in the profile IF the kids are a significant time investment on your day to day existence. But, if one does not have primary physical custody, and the kids are older, that can be a discussion point for a later date.

Yes, I meant the case you mentioned. We're talking about Mandy here, and that is her situation.

[Prince Alexander]

The stigma around single mothers with younger kids is that they are looking for providers. Players will often pump and dump them. Guys with a heart like myself will make it clear that we're only there for casual/ons. The remaining population are likely desperates and either actual sucker providers or just thirsty simpletons. Neither of which are attractive kinds of prospects. Lastly, there are single dads, which are probably single mom's best bet. Single dads are not provider types because they are already taking care of their own kids and are in the same boat, so to say, so it's easy to relate.

For mothers with older kids make that clear to the man so they know right away.

For mothers with younger kids, make it clear from the start that you're perfectly fine take care of them by yourself and are not looking for any help, be really literal about it. But even then most men will think you're lying, the stigma is strong with that one.

Re: disclosing future kids plans - if you have a very strong opinion, disclose how many and when. If you don't have a strong opinion and think you could go either way, don't say anything at all.

[Inigima]

FWIW, that isn't why I'm hesitant.

[kungtotte]

FWIW, that isn't why I'm hesitant.

You just don't trust their beady little eyes and their clawlike hands creep you out? I feel ya

[smegma]

Yeah I've found that any single dads that get interested in me because I have a kid (who is no longer a kid, but youknowwhatImean) a big turn-off, because each and every time the mother was absentee and they WERE looking for a replacement mom. For a lot of women with kids, that might be great. For me, it absolutely made me not interested - but in every case the guy wouldn't have been my type even if he had no kids. If he'd been a winner, then I would have considered it.

I've been with my current guy for about 2.5 years now, and this guy never wanted kids. So me already having one ended up being a bonus, but he would have never considered me as a viable option if we hadn't already clicked.

[Yagathai]

Was at a convention this weekend hanging out with an ex-. Had a hookup scheduled with a different ex-, but she stood me up, so first ex- said "hey, there's this hot death metal chick that is basically bizarro-you and you fit her profile." Was it DML she was talking about? I thought so too at first, but it turned out that no, this was a different death metal chick, so let's call her Death Metal Bisexual. Sadly, by the time we caught up with DMB she was literally falling-down drunk in a corner, in that she had fallen down in a corner because she was so drunk. While DMB was absolutely DTF, she was too drunk and I was too sober for me not to feel icky about it, so I declined.

Now I have this insane plan to put DML and DMB in the same room at the same time with me and a bottle of social lubricant, because come on so would you.