A Balanced Review of Show Stannis [Book Spoilers]

[Thelastactionhero]

So like many other Stannis fans I am quite upset by the rendition we witnessed tonight. I realize George R directed the episode, but I'm still curious as to whether or not he wrote the scenes, as rumor has it they were meant to be in the premiere rather than in episode 2.

So here are my thoughts and questions, and I'm going to be as objective as I can possibly be given the circumstances. I feel that while Stannis as a religious pragmatist is ruined, and his moral ambivalence is thrown to the wind in regards to the Unsullied, that there might still be a kernel of hope for the character in the coming episodes. This comes from a devoted King's Man. My reason for believing this comes from Stannis' scene with his family, in which he tells his wife not to strike Shireen with the rod.

Now, granted, as all of us book readers realize, Stannis burns the Florent in the book because he has secret plans to smuggle Shireen to the Lannisters and because he feels its perhaps the only way for them to reach the Wall in time to save the Night's Watch. While Alister is sympathetic in the books, Stannis' position is made more morally ambivalent by the circumstances, and thus the character suffers heavily from this episode's rendition of the events.

All I can say to fans of the character who are as upset as I am, is that while the television series is very different from the book arc, there is still the potential for a redemption arc worthy of our captivation. It's important to note how heavily the show has embellished his love for Shireen, something that is much more subtle in the books. I feel that not only does this foreshadow future developments in Winds of Winter, but that it provides Stannis with the groundwork for a redemption arc that is meaningful and potent, even if he's been unnecessarily portrayed as villainous here.

Something to consider, as readers of the book, is that we don't know the full story yet of who wrote the arc. If George did indeed write these scenes, it's something that fans of the character need to consider in their future readings. And yet even still, it's hard to argue that Stannis in SoS isn't more fleshed out and sympathetic than he's being portrayed here. If George is making a conscious decision to redirect the way he's adapted in the television series, fans need to respect that, but I don't think that fans of the books have been incorrectly interpreting his arc for no reason. We have reasons to sympathize with him as a character particularly in a Dance with Dragons, where Jon Snow frequently refers to him as "the King who still cared..."

I can't speak to where the show is going to go. I don't like where the character's direction is headed. All I can say is that we need to respect the show as a different medium and hope that the character's triumphs have the same moral and emotional weight as the failures they've ascribed to him in this episode. This isn't what I was hoping for, but its still too early to say Stannis has been given the treatment that Denethor was given by Peter Jackson.

[Lord Bronn Stokeworth]

I think the Stannis that Martin wants us to see in the books is still in the books regardless of who wrote/directed that scene. Unfortunately, Show Stannis is already a fanatic who burns men for being infidels. It makes more sense for Show Stannis to simply burning infidels as he usually does than give background on the man never before introduced explaining his treason (one that would be hard for him to commit since he is not Hand in the show). It makes it a bit awkward.

I do find it odd that they said it was Axel instead of Alister. I mean he's a fanatic in the book and now can't be introduce. I understand that some people take over others' roles (ie Gendry taking over Edric Storm's almost-sacrifice role), but that just seemed kinda pointless. Selyse can still have more brothers.

And really, Selyse suffered far more character assassination than Stannis this episode. She is not a pleasant person. But damn, do they ratchet up the crazy evil on the show.

[Darkbringer]

Yeah, its terrible alright. I feel that he is being made more morally questionable so that his trip to the wall becomes more of a twist, or at least I hope so. but its still a sucky thing to take the character so much lower than in the books.

[Pepi]

The name Alister takes longer to pronounce than Axel. And the time is tight. They're trimming all the fat they can in order to include an extra brothel scene or two.

[Pod The Impaler]

Less characters in the show overall. I guess Axell + Alister would be one Florent too many.

[Van West]

Stannis' scenes with his daughter really help him in staying at least mildly sympathetic

but the those religious burnings are just a disrespect to Book Stannis' character.

At least in the books he burned his uncle in law for being a treacherous dick that was going to sell Shireen to the Lannisters.

Here he seems off put by it but he still goes through with it because they worship the New Gods making him way less pragmatic of a character. Also Davos worships the New Gods as well. Shouldn't Stannis burn him too? Makes no sense.

[SkaggCannibal]

Yeah it sucked when Stannis said he was burning him because he was an infidel, I kept waiting for him to say he was a traitor too because that would make it ok. Never came.

Stannis telling Selyse she may not hit Shireen gives us a little hope for the future, but they do have to bring Selyse down to the level of crazy evil bitch instead of just the entitled, easily-manipulated dumbass she is in the books. No one wants that for a queen.

[Koi No Yokan]

The whole "infidel" thing was pretty lame; but I actually liked the dinner scene, and Shireen sticking it to Mel.

[Robbie Hood]

My reading of his character in this episode was that he was coerced into the sacrifice by Melisandre. He takes no pride in, nor gives the burning souls much attention. Whereas his wife and Melisandre are positively delighted.

I like Stannis in the TV show as he has a growing feeling of "uncertainty" in his actions, his beliefs are being questioned but he's too proud/stubborn to deviate from his path, as it's the only one he has.

[The Drunkard]

The dinner scene was alright, but the burning scene was predictably shit.

Would've been better if they had Axell yelling out the "Not treason! Never treason!" defense he gave to Davos in the dungeon, and then have Stannis and Davos arguing over whether his treason deserved death as they walk away.

The books had had the perfect line for show-Stannis, too.

"He would even have given them Shireen. Mine only child, he would have wed to a bastard born of incest." The king's voice was thick with anger.

[ctid1977]

Ach, he's still going to be the hero who saves the Nights watch at the end of this season, I wouldn't stress too much about his portrayal.

[The Kinkslayer]

Stannis needs some time alone with the smuggler and the pirate instead of dinner with crazy wife and red mistress

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

D&D and their butchery continues. Their torrid portrayal of Stannis is still not fading away.

[Caesar Augustus]

I completely agree with this. They portray Stannis as such a dick in the TV show. 'Infidel'? Really? Stannis would never have used that phrase. Most of the Unsullied hate Stannis because they portray him so badly in the show.

[E-Ro]

When he used the word infidel I lost it. The episode was ruined for me.

[jons nissa]

My reading of his character in this episode was that he was coerced into the sacrifice by Melisandre. He takes no pride in, nor gives the burning souls much attention. Whereas his wife and Melisandre are positively delighted.

this was my interpretation of the scene as well. he was clearly not happy about while mel and selyse were very obviously in "rapture".

I like Stannis in the TV show as he has a growing feeling of "uncertainty" in his actions, his beliefs are being questioned but he's too proud/stubborn to deviate from his path, as it's the only one he has.

i like this too and i think this is how the showing is establishing all the hesitation stannis has in the books. he is not "eager" to do any of it and is much more remorseful. i think this is definitely creating a similar sense of inner conflict only the books tend to do it before the act and the show does it after.

[Mr Smith]

I was one of D & D's greatest critics regarding the Stannis of last season, but I actually didn't have too much to complain about in this episode. Their biggest mistake is that the burning should have been so that they'd have calm waters in their journey north, rather than "he was an infidel". However, the rest of the Dragonstone stuff was really good. I thought the dinner scene was excellent, and I didn't mind the Shireen and Mel scene much. They have time to turn it around.

[hollowcrown]

I guess they're building Stannis as some kind of creepy villain so we will be even more shocked when he turns up at the Wall and saves the day.

It's very eh though, just a problem because for 1.5 seasons now Stannias has been doing nothing but that's what happens in the book and you can't make stuff up.

[Señor de la Tormenta]

By ruining Stannis they are ruining Davos. One can understand why he belives in Stannis in the books. But in TV show? Why is he following a fanatic jerk?????

In books he sees a conflicted Stannis who struggles between killing or not Edric while three kings die...a time between Davos wins most of it....and it is Stannis the one who pardons his treason. Not mel. The loyalty is more understandable.....his kid is Stannis squire and been teached with Shireen. Still has a wife and more kids and is building them a future.

Now Davos has no problem to follow a religious taliban who treats him like shit and has no good in him.

An other point I would like to adress is how the faith of Stannis in Melissandre is also poorly done. At this point Stannis belives in her because of two Shadow Babies, three kings daying with leaches, and good winds in his journey north. Whick makes it deeply understandable. Now the only thing that happened is that Renly died (which might had happened because one of his guards betrayed him, and Robb died in a carfuly plan built by Tywin.... 2 of Mels "miracles" against 8.

By the way I never got why Davos needed a freaking ship to carry mel and the shadow baby if Renly and Stannis (and Mel) met at land the day before.

[Mladen]

Even I who are not the biggest Stannis stan out there am appalled with how they portray him... Stannis was never religious man and I simply can't see why in God's name they would portray him like one. Simply, horrible...

I loved how Shireen asked difficult questions to Melisandre. You came to my room for a convert, what did you think - it will be an easy job.

Also, IIRC, Selyse was not married during the siege of Storm's End... WTF was that all about?