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New Version of fAegon


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#1 Hippocras

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 02:53 AM

A lot of us are pretty sure Young Griff is not the real Aegon, but there is abundant speculation on who he actually is.

Let me present the Dayne theory of fAegon :)

Ashara had a baby, probably conceived by rape at Harrenhal, and one of the likely culprits was Aerys do we agree? Now I am not saying it is confirmed that Aerys raped Ashara, but is is a strong possibility.

On top of that, we have a woman, Lemore who is traveling with fAegon, who many people think may be Ashara Dayne.

So what if fAegon is her son? I know Barristan thought she had a stillborn daughter, but then everyone thinks Ned had a bastard son also.

If fAegon is her son by Aerys, then he is still a fake Aegon, but he is also a Targaryen descendant and likely dragon rider.

Has this already been discussed?

#2 SuperTechmarine

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 03:21 AM

Can we not call him fAegon for one day? The poor lad get's hit on a lot with that name.

 

 

 

A lot of us are pretty sure Young Griff is not the real Aegon, but there is abundant speculation on who he actually is.

 

I'm sure that Young Griff is the real deal. If it weren't so GRRM would have confirmed his death long ago.



#3 Hippocras

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 03:59 AM

Can we not call him fAegon for one day? The poor lad get's hit on a lot with that name.

 

 

I'm sure that Young Griff is the real deal. If it weren't so GRRM would have confirmed his death long ago.

 

No he wouldn't have.

 

What would be the point of setting up a fake Aegon only to tell all the readers that he is fake right away? If you need uncertainty in your audience you don't go around confirming deaths that would ruin the story.



#4 furiousmoose

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 04:11 AM

A lot of us are pretty sure Young Griff is not the real Aegon, but there is abundant speculation on who he actually is.

Let me present the Dayne theory of fAegon :)

Ashara had a baby, probably conceived by rape at Harrenhal, and one of the likely culprits was Aerys do we agree? Now I am not saying it is confirmed that Aerys raped Ashara, but is is a strong possibility.

On top of that, we have a woman, Lemore who is traveling with fAegon, who many people think may be Ashara Dayne.

So what if fAegon is her son? I know Barristan thought she had a stillborn daughter, but then everyone thinks Ned had a bastard son also.

If fAegon is her son by Aerys, then he is still a fake Aegon, but he is also a Targaryen descendant and likely dragon rider.

Has this already been discussed?

It would be kinda f'd up for her to be taking nude baths in the river if he was her kid......just saying

#5 Hippocras

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 04:17 AM

It would be kinda f'd up for her to be taking nude baths in the river if he was her kid......just saying

 

I suppose that is a point

 

But then it wouldn't be the first sick thing in the books.


Edited by Hippocras, 14 April 2014 - 04:29 AM.


#6 Hippocras

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 04:31 AM

Another candidate by time of birth to be Ashara's child is Brienne of Tarth

 

Both famous for beautiful eyes, although in Ashara's case it was more than the eyes.



#7 furiousmoose

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 04:40 AM

 
I suppose that is a point.

Lol, sorry that is one of the first things that come to kind when Lemore is brought up. I don't think that's unintentional though. Ashara is described as being very beautiful, and as far as I know Lemore is the only attractive septa in the series. However, if this is the case, I would assume Ned to be the father Ashara's role seems to be significant, primarily based on the Reed siblings incredulity at Bran not hearing the story of the tourny at Harrenhall. To me, it would seem that the story had an ending Ned wasn't willing to share, therefore Ned wouldn't tell the story at all. Now if the story ended in a pregnancy unknown to Ned, and upon Brandon's death Ned needing to marry Cat, it makes sense......that means a Dornish Stark running around though.......

#8 joluoto2

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 04:42 AM

A lot of us are pretty sure Young Griff is not the real Aegon, but there is abundant speculation on who he actually is.

Let me present the Dayne theory of fAegon :)

Ashara had a baby, probably conceived by rape at Harrenhal, and one of the likely culprits was Aerys do we agree? Now I am not saying it is confirmed that Aerys raped Ashara, but is is a strong possibility.

On top of that, we have a woman, Lemore who is traveling with fAegon, who many people think may be Ashara Dayne.

So what if fAegon is her son? I know Barristan thought she had a stillborn daughter, but then everyone thinks Ned had a bastard son also.

If fAegon is her son by Aerys, then he is still a fake Aegon, but he is also a Targaryen descendant and likely dragon rider.

Has this already been discussed?

1. There is no story at all that Ashara was raped. Barristan recall she was dishonoured by Stark, which most likely means she had an affair with either Ned or Brandon (which in Westerosi eyes would be dishonoring her, since an affair diminishes her marriage prospects, except of course she was Dornish, where things like that are quite usual).

 

2. There is nothing that indicates Aerys was involved in any way.

 

3. The fact that Barristan remembers she miscarried an had a daughter probably means either a) that's what happened (explains her suicide) or b ) that her sister Allyria Dayne actually is her daughter, and the Daynes pretended it's her sister to avoid scandal (since Allyria might be the right age, considering she was only bethrothed to Beric Dondarrion, which means early teens, since if she was any older they'd be married).

 

So actually there's nothing to back up your theory with, and some other theories offers more plausible explanations.


Edited by joluoto2, 14 April 2014 - 04:42 AM.


#9 jet199

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 04:57 AM

There is another Dayne/fAegon crackpot. That Arthur Dayne and Elia were having an affair so fAegon is Aegon but he was never legit.

 

They say Ashara was dishonoured not raped which I take to mean that she was seduced by someone who wouldn't or couldn't marry her. I think Aerys with his madness and long fingernails is way down the list of likely Lotharios after Brandon, Ned, Oberyn, Robert, Rhaegar, Howland, even Mance might have been there singing for the NW. Personally my money is on Rhaegar and the man who slept with Ashara and because he got away with that it he then thought that nothing would happen when he ran off with Lyanna. However the Dornish and northerners have different cultures so he ended up causing a war.

 

Most people think it was Ned or Brandon as they want there to be more Starks.

 

1. There is no story at all that Ashara was raped. Barristan recall she was dishonoured by Stark, which most likely means she had an affair with either Ned or Brandon (which in Westerosi eyes would be dishonoring her, since an affair diminishes her marriage prospects, except of course she was Dornish, where things like that are quite usual).

 

2. There is nothing that indicates Aerys was involved in any way.

 

3. The fact that Barristan remembers she miscarried an had a daughter probably means either a) that's what happened (explains her suicide) or b ) that her sister Allyria Dayne actually is her daughter, and the Daynes pretended it's her sister to avoid scandal (since Allyria might be the right age, considering she was only bethrothed to Beric Dondarrion, which means early teens, since if she was any older they'd be married).

 

So actually there's nothing to back up your theory with, and some other theories offers more plausible explanations.

1, That is a serious misreading. Barry says she was dishonoured, not who by but we now he is dead before Ashara, and that she looked to Stark. "Looked" to is an interesting word as it indicates that whatever relationship she had with any Starks was instigated by Ashara, she went after them. It could be just as likely that Ashara "looked" to House Stark to help her get justice or revenge, especially after seeing them help Howland. Barry might wish she had "looked" to him because he may have been better able to help her and/or the Starks getting involved in southron disputes a sympton of the southron ambitions which led to RR.

 

"But Ashara’s daughter had been stillborn, and his fair lady had thrown herself from a tower soon after, mad with grief for the child she had lost, and perhaps for the man who had dishonored her at Harrenhal as well. She died never knowing that Ser Barristan had loved her. How could she? He was a knight of the Kingsguard, sworn to celibacy. No good could have come from telling her his feelings. No good came from silence either. If I had unhorsed Rhaegar and crowned Ashara queen of love and beauty, might she have looked to me instead of Stark?"



#10 furiousmoose

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 05:34 AM

There is another Dayne/fAegon crackpot. That Arthur Dayne and Elia were having an affair so fAegon is Aegon but he was never legit.
 
They say Ashara was dishonoured not raped which I take to mean that she was seduced by someone who wouldn't or couldn't marry her. I think Aerys with his madness and long fingernails is way down the list of likely Lotharios after Brandon, Ned, Oberyn, Robert, Rhaegar, Howland, even Mance might have been there singing for the NW. Personally my money is on Rhaegar and the man who slept with Ashara and because he got away with that it he then thought that nothing would happen when he ran off with Lyanna. However the Dornish and northerners have different cultures so he ended up causing a war.
 
Most people think it was Ned or Brandon as they want there to be more Starks.
 
1, That is a serious misreading. Barry says she was dishonoured, not who by but we now he is dead before Ashara, and that she looked to Stark. "Looked" to is an interesting word as it indicates that whatever relationship she had with any Starks was instigated by Ashara, she went after them. It could be just as likely that Ashara "looked" to House Stark to help her get justice or revenge, especially after seeing them help Howland. Barry might wish she had "looked" to him because he may have been better able to help her and/or the Starks getting involved in southron disputes a sympton of the southron ambitions which led to RR.
 
"But Ashara’s daughter had been stillborn, and his fair lady had thrown herself from a tower soon after, mad with grief for the child she had lost, and perhaps for the man who had dishonored her at Harrenhal as well. She died never knowing that Ser Barristan had loved her. How could she? He was a knight of the Kingsguard, sworn to celibacy. No good could have come from telling her his feelings. No good came from silence either. If I had unhorsed Rhaegar and crowned Ashara queen of love and beauty, might she have looked to me instead of Stark?"

Agree but I think it is a long shot to say it is Brandon. Brandon was already betrothed. Ashara would have been dishonoring herself. Ned presents a much more logical option. He would have married her, but as a result of Brandons death his honor dictated him to marry Cat. Thus she was dishonored. Not because of a bastard born child IMO, (Highborn bastards are still highborn in Dorne) but because Ned was forced to renig on a promise of marriage.

#11 Hippocras

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 05:44 AM

umm... no

 

Barristan remembers that she was dishonoured, and that she TURNED TO a Stark. That does NOT mean that a Stark dishonoured her.

 

It is also clear that Aerys did something horrible at that tournament. Put the two together and you get the Ashara was raped by Aerys theory.


Edited by Hippocras, 14 April 2014 - 05:46 AM.


#12 jet199

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 05:53 AM

umm... no

 

Barristan remembers that she was dishonoured, and that she TURNED TO a Stark. That does NOT mean that a Stark dishonoured her.

 

It is also clear that Aerys did something horrible at that tournament. Put the two together and you get the Ashara was raped by Aerys theory.

Would you mind pointing out where it is clear that Aerys did something horrible at the Harrenhal tourney. I can't remember anything particular other than he showed up and got paranoid because of the Knight of the Laughing Tree.



#13 Hippocras

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 06:03 AM

Would you mind pointing out where it is clear that Aerys did something horrible at the Harrenhal tourney. I can't remember anything particular other than he showed up and got paranoid because of the Knight of the Laughing Tree.

 

I will have a look for it. But there are vague suggestions that if Aerys had not gone to Harrenhal, the horrors that followed would not have taken place. I don't remember the exact words.



#14 furiousmoose

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 06:20 AM

 
I will have a look for it. But there are vague suggestions that if Aerys had not gone to Harrenhal, the horrors that followed would not have taken place. I don't remember the exact words.

There are....but they are referring to his decision to promote Jaime to the KG. Aerys was fearful of Tywins power (It had already been said that Tywin was the true ruler of the seven kingdoms). Tywin planned to wed Jaime to Lysa Tully which would have given him a foothold in the riverlands (and by marriage the north). So to prevent that, Aerys made Jaime a member of the KG. The first recorded slight he issues Tywin (not the last). The most info we have ob Ashara comes from the Reed siblings, which would imply relations between her and Ned (I'm assuming they took place, "Chekov's Gun") As far as her and Aerys' go though, I am not sure what you are seeing. Especially since it is heavily implied that Aerys required outside sources (i.e. fire) to perform

#15 Hippocras

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 06:24 AM

There are....but they are referring to his decision to promote Jaime to the KG. Aerys was fearful of Tywins power (It had already been said that Tywin was the true ruler of the seven kingdoms). Tywin planned to wed Jaime to Lysa Tully which would have given him a foothold in the riverlands (and by marriage the north). So to prevent that, Aerys made Jaime a member of the KG. The first recorded slight he issues Tywin (not the last). The most info we have ob Ashara comes from the Reed siblings, which would imply relations between her and Ned (I'm assuming they took place, "Chekov's Gun") As far as her and Aerys' go though, I am not sure what you are seeing. Especially since it is heavily implied that Aerys required outside sources (i.e. fire) to perform

 

That's an interesting theory, but it doesn't seem to fit if you ask me. Jamie planned to join the KG regardless of the tournament.



#16 furiousmoose

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 06:32 AM

 
That's an interesting theory, but it doesn't seem to fit if you ask me. Jamie planned to join the KG regardless of the tournament.

Lol hopefully as Aerys refused to allow him to participate. You are right, it was Cersei's idea originally (actually the owner of the idea would be whoever gave it to Cersei since she seems incapable of intelligent original thought). That being said, Aerys absolutly used it to slight Tywin. Jaime's POV says as much wheb he tell Brienne the story. Thats the sole reason Aerys wouldnt allow him to compete. Kind of ironic considering he would have been a favorite capable of unhorsing Rheagar.......

#17 Lord Damian

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 06:41 AM

I appreciate the theory attempt but this kid is not a Dayne. Not Ashara's child and certainly not Aerys.



#18 Hippocras

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 07:04 AM

I appreciate the theory attempt but this kid is not a Dayne. Not Ashara's child and certainly not Aerys.


Based on what? We don't know who he is.

#19 Ser Eric

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 07:11 AM

This is massively crackpot.

 

Aerys and Ashara seems terribly random.



#20 Hippocras

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 07:16 AM

She was famously beautiful. Something happened to her at Harrenhal, and the implication is that it was rape. She had a child about the right amount of time after that. She was not married, so it was not a legit child. And we know Aerys did something nasty at Harrenhal. So no it is not that random. It is possible.

Edited by Hippocras, 14 April 2014 - 07:17 AM.