furiousmoose Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Brandon spoke to Ashara for Ned, but because he's kind of an ass, he probably went for it with Ashara anyway, even knowing his little brother liked her (and being betrothed). I'm just saying it's more fitting with Brandon's character to dishonor her than Ned's, and Barristan's accounts all purposely keep it vague with "Stark." I stepped in with a point to late, but in my last post I mentioned she is Dornish. Sex wouldnt have been considered dishonorable nor even a pregnancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippocras Posted April 14, 2014 Author Share Posted April 14, 2014 I stepped in with a point to late, but in my last post I mentioned she is Dornish. Sex wouldnt have been considered dishonorable nor even a pregnancy.I agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furiousmoose Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 I stepped in with a point to late, but in my last post I mentioned she is Dornish. Sex wouldnt have been considered dishonorable nor even a pregnancy. Wait....now that I think about it.....those are both accurate...the only way a stark could have dishonored her......marriage refusal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bogdevil Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 That doesn't explain why she was "looking to" anyone. Barristan seems to think she needed to look to someone, the way it was phrased. A fling is not something one needs. It is not like women go into heat and need to find a mate, any mate. well Barristan was undeniably in love with Ashara, so when he says "look to me, instead of Stark" he views Stark as a rival for her affection. Maybe he thinks that if he had won the tournament, Brandon (or Ned) would not have been able to woo her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chebyshov Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 That doesn't explain why she was "looking to" anyone. Barristan seems to think she needed to look to someone, the way it was phrased. A fling is not something one needs. It is not like women go into heat and need to find a mate, any mate. I always interpreted "looking to" as like, "making eyes with." Pretty sure she "looked to" Stark for sexy-time. Also keep in mind she's Dornish, so probably not as hung up about sex and honor as her house. Barristan is going to paint it as dishonoring, but from what we know of her, she seemed easy going. I stepped in with a point to late, but in my last post I mentioned she is Dornish. Sex wouldnt have been considered dishonorable nor even a pregnancy. Agreed. However, Barry has a rose-colored image of her, so he's going to paint it differently. But even if Ashara was cool with sex before marriage, Ned had such a strict honor code that I doubt he'd go for it. Brandon on the other hand... Obviously this is all speculation. But putting everything together it just seems that the likeliest scenario is Ashara and Brandon having a fling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Eric Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Yes, but my point was that tells us nothing at all about what happened to her Why do you think GRRM specifically told us about who she danced with or talked to? We have been given plenty of information about Harrenhall from lots of sources and not one of them point towards Aerys doing the deed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furiousmoose Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 I always interpreted "looking to" as like, "making eyes with." Pretty sure she "looked to" Stark for sexy-time. Also keep in mind she's Dornish, so probably not as hung up about sex and honor as her house. Barristan is going to paint it as dishonoring, but from what we know of her, she seemed easy going. Agreed. However, Barry has a rose-colored image of her, so he's going to paint it differently. But even if Ashara was cool with sex before marriage, Ned had such a strict honor code that I doubt he'd go for it. Brandon on the other hand... Obviously this is all speculation. But putting everything together it just seems that the likeliest scenario is Ashara and Brandon having a fling.No doubt that Barry thought that, however, that does nothing to explain her apparent deppression resulting in suicide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippocras Posted April 14, 2014 Author Share Posted April 14, 2014 I don't discount that Brandon might have had a fling with Ashara.But I wanted to make a thread about a different idea. :(Too bad that's so hard to do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippocras Posted April 14, 2014 Author Share Posted April 14, 2014 Why do you think GRRM specifically told us about who she danced with or talked to? We have been given plenty of information about Harrenhall from lots of sources and not one of them point towards Aerys doing the deed.To point out who her friends were.And you can't be serious about "plenty" of information on Harrenhal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Eric Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 To point out who her friends were.And you can't be serious about "plenty" of information on Harrenhal. Or to point out clues as to who she slept with. I am not too sure myself but of all the names suggested Aerys seems the least likely. Scattered would be a better term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippocras Posted April 14, 2014 Author Share Posted April 14, 2014 Or to point out clues as to who she slept with. I am not too sure myself but of all the names suggested Aerys seems the least likely. Scattered would be a better term.Pointing out who she slept with MAY have been the purpose, or...Pointing out who she was aligned with was the purpose. The people named have some role, but it may not be what you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippocras Posted April 14, 2014 Author Share Posted April 14, 2014 Anyway the reason the theory is interesting is that it is a way for fAegon to be both a fake Aegon and a real dragon - an alternative to the Blackfyre theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khal Shaggydog Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 We also have the instance of Catelyn mentioning Ashara Dayne's name to Ned once, and only once, because he strongly forbade anyone in his castle from speaking of that rumor. So it was certainly a rumor with some traction, to have traveled around the 7 Kingdoms (Harrenhal, Starfall, Winterfell) - but we don't get much in the way of confirmation either way since it is assumed Ned isn't shutting down the rumor out of shame, but rather out of another motive to shut down any and all rumors around Jon's birth. It would probably be useful to pull the text of the Meera mention, Barristan mention, Catelyn mention, and then compare it with whatever theory the OP is posting. There has to be some textual references to support a theory, but I don't see anything suggesting an Aerys/Ashara combination. Not saying its untrue - but I just don't see Aerys raping Ashara when his best KG knight is her brother. Disrespecting Tywin directly was one thing, we understand his motivation, and he had Cersei at court, and then took Jaime to court as well so he could pretty much do with Tywin what he pleased, but thats not the case for the Daynes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chebyshov Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 No doubt that Barry thought that, however, that does nothing to explain her apparent deppression resulting in suicide Her baby-daddy dying, her baby dying, and her brother dying might have contributed to that. Obviously her suicide is a little suspicious because we only get a second-hand account, but it's not out of the realm of possibility. Anyway the reason the theory is interesting is that it is a way for fAegon to be both a fake Aegon and a real dragon - an alternative to the Blackfyre theory. I've thought that would be an interesting twist too, but I can't figure out a way to get there organically given the evidence we're presented with. Obviously we're missing many details, but it seems a bit of a reach to get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Eric Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Pointing out who she slept with MAY have been the purpose, or...Pointing out who she was aligned with was the purpose. The people named have some role, but it may not be what you think. Fair enough. But is there any suggesting that Aerys raped Ashara? You said Aerys did something terrible at Harrenhalll and haven't backed it up. Also, wasn't Ashara a companion of Elia? If so why would wouldn't he just rape her in KL and be done with it. Why go all the way to Harrenhall to rape her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippocras Posted April 14, 2014 Author Share Posted April 14, 2014 Arthur Dayne is an interesting counter-point. But if you think about it, that might actually support the theory.Aerys named Jamie to the Kingsguard in part to make him a hostage. What if he already considered Dayne to be somewhat of a hostage? Sure, he was his best knight, but he was only one knight and if he had commanded the others to kill Dayne they would have, even if many of them also died carrying out the order.So let's speculate Aerys raped Ashara at Harrenhal, Dayne could do nothing about it because Aerys was King, and then after the entire realm witnessed this, THEN Aerys named Jamie to the Kingsguard with the implication that he would also be powerless to help his family? This after hinting he would also like to rape Joanna Lannister at Tywin's wedding. Oh my! Ashara turned to the Starks for help, and Aerys knew this. Then with tensions extremely high, Rhaegar chose Lyanna as queen of love and beauty.Now we are starting to get closer to a series of events that would have helped cause a war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippocras Posted April 14, 2014 Author Share Posted April 14, 2014 Fair enough. But is there any suggesting that Aerys raped Ashara? You said Aerys did something terrible at Harrenhalll and haven't backed it up. Also, wasn't Ashara a companion of Elia? If so why would wouldn't he just rape her in KL and be done with it. Why go all the way to Harrenhall to rape her?Since I have been busy answering posts i have not been browsing for quotes have I? However I clearly explained the mention, and another poster confirmed it. Aerys did SOMETHING offensive at Harrenhal. This is fact.I don't know why he would not rape her in KL, that is a valid point, but if he knew Rhaegar was planning to find a new partner at the tournament and raped to woman he considered the prime candidate in order to disrupt Rhaegar's plan... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Eric Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Since I have been busy answering posts i have not been browsing for quotes have I? However I clearly explained the mention, and another poster confirmed it. Aerys did SOMETHING offensive at Harrenhal. This is fact. Can you point me to the post? I must have missed it, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippocras Posted April 14, 2014 Author Share Posted April 14, 2014 It is not that long a thread. Look yourself. The post proposed that naming Jamie to the KG was the thing, and I disagreed while acknowledging the possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Eric Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 No, where is it stated in the the books that Aerys did something terrible at Harrenhall? I genuinely can't remember it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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