[BOOK SPOILERS] Where will season 5 end?

[The Eunuch]

We know that book 4 and 5 will be adapted together in a chronological order, rather than in a geographic order. Assuming there will be 2 seasons of it (and not 1 like some people think), where would you cut book 4? Where will season 5 end?

Here's my guess :

Season 5 cliffhangers :
-After his meeting with Aegon, Tyrion is captured by a hooded Jorah, telling him he's bringing him to "the queen",
-Dany is resigned to wed, weeping for Daario,
-Jon discovers that Mance is still alive and agrees to let him go, while Stannis leaves the Wall,
-Brienne is hanged after her encounter with Lady Stoneheart,
-Sam is stucked in Braavos with ill Aemon,
-Asha loses the kingsmoot to Euron,
-Arya becomes blind,
-Doran tells Arianne of his plan and we are introduced to Quentyn on his ship,
-Cersei becomes mad as the situation gets worse (losing Tommen to Margaery, the paranoia with her entourage, the bank of Braavos, Qyburn growing influential...).
-Sansa learns from Littlefinger with the Vale lords meeting,
-The wedding in Winterfell.


Season 6 cliffhangers :
-Book 5 normal endings (Dany, Jon, Tyrion... Aegon lands, Jaime goes with Brienne...) + book 4 endings (Sam arrives at the Citadel, Sansa leaves the Eyrie and learns she'll be wed, ...).
+ maybe one of the two battles (Winterfell or Meereen), and the other one in Season 7.

-And then, Varys's epilogue.

What is your guess?

[Ignorant Bog Woman]

Season 5 will end with Walk of Shame, Battle of Meereen, Jon's death and Sansa doing some TWOW shit.

Taking two seasons to adapt AFFC/ADWD, as you've outlined, will kill the show. How can you not see that from your own post? According to you, all Tyrion does in one season is meet Ageon. And that's just the beginning of your post. You're not a TV writer for a reason.

[Ser Tahu]

Chronologically, AFfC ends roughly half way-two thirds of the way through ADwD, so even if some of the storylines from those books went to the end of S6, S5 would still have all of the natural climaxes from AFfC. I personally want to see S5 end in roughly the same place, chronologically, as AFfC (with appropriate ADwD climaxes like the fighting pits and Theon leaping from the walls of Winterfell), but I think the most likely situation is them getting through almost all of the material from those books by the end of S5. Either way, however, I don't think we can make any reliable guesses until S4 is over and we see where each storyline will be going into S5.

[The Eunuch]

All Tyrion does is meet Aegon? How can you say that? Did you read the books?

He cross the narrow sea, he meets Illyrio and stays at Penthos, he travels from Pentos to Volantis meeting the stone men... It's huge, if everything is shown. It can last a whole season...

And that's just the beginning of your post.

In this case, you should have read the rest of my post, because there is enough material to make a season. The showrunners divided book 3 for the series, did it kill the show? Do you guess they are not TW writers "for a reason" too?

I don't think we can make any reliable guesses until S4 is over and we see where each storyline will be going into S5.

This forum is fond of guesses and theories, why not for the series? :)

[HairGrowsBack]

In this case, you should have read the rest of my post, because there is enough material to make a season. The showrunners divided book 3 for the series, did it kill the show? Do you guess they are not TW writers "for a reason" too?

Aye, but considering they're planning on seven season, they can't afford spending two more with AFFC/ADWD, knowing TWoW and ADoS will probably be eventful as f*ck.

[Hagen of Tronje]

He wrote "assuming there will be two seasons". And if that would be the case, these are indeed possible ends for the different storylines, I think (Brienne might meet Lady Stoneheart at the end of season 4 though).

However, I agree that it's not a good idea to stretch it over two seasons. One season or 1 1/2 seasons seem more fitting. Otherwise the pacing of the show will slow down to a crawl and there won't be any convincing climaxes and cliffhangers. Plus, Daenerys would spend three seasons in Meereen. People will lose interest in her storyline.

[The Eunuch]

the pacing of the show will slow down (...) Daenerys would spend three seasons in Meereen. People will lose interest in her storyline.

Daenerys loses the control of her dragons and struggles to rule her city. She loses self confidence and is resigned to wed. I don't think this is uninteresting, it's huge in the character development.

I don't know why you lose faith in GRRM's talent. It's like saying "They will not kill Robb in the show, viewers would hate it and stop watching".

The show doesn't need to slow down : the amount of events (on both continents) and characters is HUGE... Viewers loved the arrival of Lady Olenna and Margeary in King's Landing, the same with Oberyn. Why should they hate Arianne, Doran, Aegon or Victarion?

Plus, they can show things that are only told in the book (Loras at Dragonstone, Bronn in Stokeworth, Arya's full training...). As for the convincing climaxes and cliffhangers, that's the purpose of this topic to guess them! Have a try! :)

[protar]

I think that S5 will probably end with the Battle of Meereen in episode 9, E10 endings will be (Some conjecture dependent on TWOW):

• Dany sailing off to Westeros with whoever.
  
• The Walk of Shame.
  
• Jon's assassination
  
• The taking of Storm's End
  

With smaller arc endings being:

• Sam leaving Braavos for Oldtown (Aemon's death and Sam losing his V having happened in Braavos.).
  
• Sansa and co. descending down from the Eyrie.
  
• Theon (having escaped from Winterfell) captured by Stannis.
  
• Jojenpaste (assuming that theory is true).
  

[Insomniadict]

2+ seasons of Arya training in Braavos. 3+ seasons of Sansa in the Vale. 2 whole seasons of Tyrion and Samwell traveling. 3 whole seasons of Daenerys in Meereen.

Do you see the problem here?

There's absolutely no way that AFFC/ADWD extends past the ending of season 5, early season 6 at the absolute latest. They're already bringing in elements from those books into season 4, with Theon, Brienne, Bran, and Dany. In fact, depending on the pacing for season 5, most of the storylines could already get into TWOW material.

With that said, here's my predictions for the arc endings of seasons 4 and 5:

Season 4:

Tyrion, Jaime, Cersei, Jon, Davos, Stannis, Sansa (sort of), Arya, Samwell: ASOS ending

Daenerys: Chaining the dragons, banishing Jorah. If they exist in the show, the Sons of the Harpy and marriage plots will have been introduced.

Theon: Having rid Moat Cailin of the Ironborn, Ramsay is legitimized and the Boltons go to Winterfell. Fake Arya may or may not have been introduced at this point.

Brienne: Her AFFC story will be a compressed arc from 4.05-4.10. Her season will end with the reveal of Lady Stoneheart.

Bran: Meets the three-eyed raven and the children of the forest.

Season 5 (if the pacing is fast):

Tyrion: post-Battle of Meereen (TWOW)

Jaime: confrontation with Lady Stoneheart (TWOW)

Cersei: Walk of shame

Daenerys: post-Battle of Meereen (TWOW)

Jon: Assasination

Davos: Finding Rickon? (TWOW)

Stannis: Approaching Winterfell

Theon: TWOW preview chapter

Bran: Either TWOW stuff or invented material. What I personally would love is if Bran finds out in 5.10 that R+L=J, immediately followed by Jon's assassination.

Sansa: TWOW stuff, or her AFFC ending with the rest of the season heavily padded.

Arya: TWOW stuff, or her ADWD ending with the rest of the season heavily padded.

Samwell: Arriving in Oldtown

Brienne: Leading Jaime to Lady Stoneheart (TWOW)

Also, in my outline the Iron Islands storyline is cut entirely and written around. Dorne and Aegon may or may not appear, I'm not entirely sure yet.

[Ser Desmond Wine's Bane]

Season 4:

Tyrion, Jaime, Cersei, Jon, Davos, Stannis, Sansa (sort of), Arya, Samwell: ASOS ending

Daenerys: Chaining the dragons, banishing Jorah. If they exist in the show, the Sons of the Harpy and marriage plots will have been introduced.

Theon: Having rid Moat Cailin of the Ironborn, Ramsay is legitimized and the Boltons go to Winterfell. Fake Arya may or may not have been introduced at this point.

Brienne: Her AFFC story will be a compressed arc from 4.05-4.10. Her season will end with the reveal of Lady Stoneheart.

Bran: Meets the three-eyed raven and the children of the forest.

I reckon that is pretty solid

I don't think fArya will be introduced this season. They appear to have plenty of content with Moat Cailin and the 'Yara' attack on the Dreadfort to deal with for the next 8 episodes.

[Insomniadict]

I reckon that is pretty solid

I don't think fArya will be introduced this season. They appear to have plenty of content with Moat Cailin and the 'Yara' attack on the Dreadfort to deal with for the next 8 episodes.

You're probably right. I was just saying she might be mentioned or make a brief appearance in 4.10 to set up the next season.

[raj34]

I say three seasons for AFFC/ADWD

They need 4 episodes at least for Tyrion to properly classify all the species of Rhoynar Turtle.

[raj34]

2+ seasons of Arya training in Braavos. 3+ seasons of Sansa in the Vale. 2 whole seasons of Tyrion and Samwell traveling. 3 whole seasons of Daenerys in Meereen.

Do you see the problem here?

There's absolutely no way that AFFC/ADWD extends past the ending of season 5, early season 6 at the absolute latest. They're already bringing in elements from those books into season 4, with Theon, Brienne, Bran, and Dany. In fact, depending on the pacing for season 5, most of the storylines could already get into TWOW material.

With that said, here's my predictions for the arc endings of seasons 4 and 5:

Season 4:

Tyrion, Jaime, Cersei, Jon, Davos, Stannis, Sansa (sort of), Arya, Samwell: ASOS ending

Daenerys: Chaining the dragons, banishing Jorah. If they exist in the show, the Sons of the Harpy and marriage plots will have been introduced.

Theon: Having rid Moat Cailin of the Ironborn, Ramsay is legitimized and the Boltons go to Winterfell. Fake Arya may or may not have been introduced at this point.

Brienne: Her AFFC story will be a compressed arc from 4.05-4.10. Her season will end with the reveal of Lady Stoneheart.

Bran: Meets the three-eyed raven and the children of the forest.

Season 5 (if the pacing is fast):

Tyrion: post-Battle of Meereen (TWOW)

Jaime: confrontation with Lady Stoneheart (TWOW)

Cersei: Walk of shame

Daenerys: post-Battle of Meereen (TWOW)

Jon: Assasination

Davos: Finding Rickon? (TWOW)

Stannis: Approaching Winterfell

Theon: TWOW preview chapter

Bran: Either TWOW stuff or invented material. What I personally would love is if Bran finds out in 5.10 that R+L=J, immediately followed by Jon's assassination.

Sansa: TWOW stuff, or her AFFC ending with the rest of the season heavily padded.

Arya: TWOW stuff, or her ADWD ending with the rest of the season heavily padded.

Samwell: Arriving in Oldtown

Brienne: Leading Jaime to Lady Stoneheart (TWOW)

Also, in my outline the Iron Islands storyline is cut entirely and written around. Dorne and Aegon may or may not appear, I'm not entirely sure yet.

How soon do you think it will take Tyrion to show up in Mereen in season 5?

I'm hoping D&D quickly teleport him there and skip the whole fAegon thing entirely.

[Insomniadict]

How soon do you think it will take Tyrion to show up in Mereen in season 5?

I'm hoping D&D quickly teleport him there and skip the whole fAegon thing entirely.

Well, I would put the fighting pits scene (which Tyrion doesn't really need to be present for) in 5.04. And it honestly depends whether or not Aegon is included. If he is, then I'd put Tyrion arriving in episode 6 or 7. If not, then episode 4 or 5. Episodes 5-8 will focus on Barristan and Tyrion trying to pull shit together in Meereen, while Dany adventures with the Dothraki. 5.09 would contain the battle.

[The Eunuch]

2+ seasons of Arya training in Braavos. 3+ seasons of Sansa in the Vale. 2 whole seasons of Tyrion and Samwell traveling. 3 whole seasons of Daenerys in Meereen.

Do you see the problem here?

No. Is it written somewhere that characters should not spend more than 1 season in the same place?

How many seasons was Bran in Winterfell? Sansa or Cersei in King's Landing? Jon at the Wall? It was not a problem for them.

So everybody here is sure that there will be only one season for the two books? While they divided book 3 in 2 seasons, while every new season is a rating record, while the next book is still not released, while there is so much material in the 2 books that you want to skip characters and plots... I don't get it.

Have faith, guys!

[metr0man]

S5 ends with:

The conclusion of the Battle of Winterfell (whatever it may be)

Daenerys arriving in Westeros

Basically, the early parts of TWoW.

I expect D&D will need 2 full seasons for the real endgame stuff - S6 and S7.

[Insomniadict]

No. Is it written somewhere that characters should not spend more than 1 season in the same place?

How many seasons was Bran in Winterfell? Sansa or Cersei in King's Landing? Jon at the Wall? It was not a problem for them.

So everybody here is sure that there will be only one season for the two books? While they divided book 3 in 2 seasons, while every new season is a rating record, while the next book is still not released, while there is so much material in the 2 books that you want to skip characters and plots... I don't get it.

Have faith, guys!

The issue isn't with characters staying in the same place, it's with their storylines moving forward. With the examples you listed, the story was consistently evolving. If you had, for instance, Sansa in the Eyrie from mid-Season 4 to the end of Season 6, what will have happened in her storyline for two whole years? How would you justify it remaining that stagnant?

And book 3 was divided into two seasons because there was a huge amount of material in that book, and various points midway through the book where it could be split and still have two satisfying seasons.. Books four and five are made up of enough adaptable material to fill season five, along with a lot of travelogues, inner monologue, events featuring totally new characters that will take up time from the established storylines, and events that we will already be seeing in season 4.

[Ser Baldrick]

I wouldn't count the Ironborn out. It looks to me like they are purposely delaying Balon's death til the end of this season so that they can start fresh with the new Greyjoy characters in season 5. You don't really need all the buildup to the Kingsmoot that's in AFFC. Episode 1 could introduce Victarion, maybe discussing the matter of succession with Yara and Damphair. And then episode 2, jump to the Moot and introduce Crow's Eye!

[raj34]

Well, I would put the fighting pits scene (which Tyrion doesn't really need to be present for) in 5.04. And it honestly depends whether or not Aegon is included. If he is, then I'd put Tyrion arriving in episode 6 or 7. If not, then episode 4 or 5. Episodes 5-8 will focus on Barristan and Tyrion trying to pull shit together in Meereen, while Dany adventures with the Dothraki. 5.09 would contain the battle.

Sounds like compelling television to me. An expedited season five has a ton of potential.

[Blutrabe]

We know that book 4 and 5 will be adapted together in a chronological order, rather than in a geographic order. Assuming there will be 2 seasons of it (and not 1 like some people think), where would you cut book 4? Where will season 5 end?

[...]

What is your guess?

There is certainly no way that AFFC/ADWD can be adapted as two whole season, especially not with material going into season 4. On the other hand, I absolutely can't see them both adapted into one season only. I think it will be like this: AFFC will be covered in S5. Some ADWD storylines will be completely covered in S5. Other ADWD storylines will spill over to S6, which will contain mostly TWOW material however.

GRRM pushed some of the original climaxes of ADWD to the beginning of TWOW. It might not be a bad idea to put them back in their place, so maybe there will be a bit of TWOW in S5 already.

The problem with S5 is the sheer number of concurrent storyline. While most of them can be packed into one season in terms of the narrative structure, I'm not sure if there is enough screentime to accommodate them all.

However, this is my take on the different storylines:

King's Landing: Ends with Cersei's walk of shame and Kevan's murder (assuming that he'll be back on the show - God, I hope so). The trial by combat can kick off her S6 arc; we don't know anything about that anyway.

The Wall/Winterfell: Those two storylines are intertwined, so you have to be careful with the pacing. It would be possible to end S5 with Jon sending Mance to Winterfell¹ and Ramsay marrying fArya (and Stannis taking Deepwood Motte²). Another, narratively very satisfying solution would be to end them with Jon's death, which means that the Battle for Winterfell must go in S5. This would make for a quite eventful, but screentime-demanding storyline.

Meereen: I'm adamant that Dany's arc should climax with Daznak's pit. With the Sons of the Harpy and a Yunkish army, there is enough conflict to keep her arc interesting. Also, if Drogon's appearance in the pit is the result of Quentyn releasing the dragons, it would provide a neat conclusion to his arc as well. Leave the Battle of Meereen for S6.

Tyrion: I'll be quick about it and just say that he and Jorah are captured by slavers at the end of S5. Aegon & Co are either on their way to Westeros or just landed.

Braavos: This is a tricky one. A nice way to end Arya's arc is to have her kill Dareon and be blinded. It's hard to tell how her story should proceed in S6 without having read TWOW. I would end Sam's arc with Aemon's death and sex with Gilly. He can arrive at the Citadel at the very beginning of S6.

Dorne: End with Doran dispatching Arianne (and possibly the Sand Snakes) to meet with the army that has landed in the Stormlands, thinking it is Daenerys (with Quentyn).

Ironborn: Whether or not there is a Kingsmoot, Victarion must be well on his way to Meereen at the end of S5. If Moqorro is included, Victarion's arc needs to be coordinated with Tyrion's arc.

¹ There is some sort of break in Jon's ADWD storyline. In the first part of the book he deals with one set of problems (Stannis, Mance, Wildlings in Mole Town), and in the second part with another set (Queen Selyse, the Karstarks, Hardhome and Tormund). It would be a convenient point for a season to end, but I'm sure they will cut out a lot of content (like e.g. the Alys Karstark business), so I doubt it would work with the show as it is.

² I don't think that Yara will return to Deepwood Motte in the show, and I doubt that there will be a Kingsmoot to keep her busy in the meantime, so this is unlikely to happen.

How soon do you think it will take Tyrion to show up in Mereen in season 5?

I'm hoping D&D quickly teleport him there and skip the whole fAegon thing entirely.

I will sell my mother into slavery if Aegon doesn't have a big role to play in TWOW. Count him in.

Well, I would put the fighting pits scene (which Tyrion doesn't really need to be present for) in 5.04. And it honestly depends whether or not Aegon is included. If he is, then I'd put Tyrion arriving in episode 6 or 7. If not, then episode 4 or 5. Episodes 5-8 will focus on Barristan and Tyrion trying to pull shit together in Meereen, while Dany adventures with the Dothraki. 5.09 would contain the battle.

So you would just scrap half of the plot of ADWD and continue with TWOW right away? Alright.......