[BOOK SPOILERS] Where will season 5 end?

[Ser Desmond Wine's Bane]

And you seem to think they will adapt something that's not even released? How exactly?

By following the plot outlines given to them by GRRM when they need them according to his contractual obligations to them. This was made clear when they were questioned on the issue after S1.

[Ahri Adaran]

Yeah no way in hell will they wait around for Martin to get the books done. That would be gross financial malpractice. It's not as if the unsullied know if they're adapting a book or an outline and getting ahead of Martin would just draw that many more curious book readers.

[Insomniadict]

And you seem to think they will adapt something that's not even released? How exactly?

The plot outlines that Martin gave them for every storyline up until the ending. Also, I would be shocked if they didn't have access to the material that's already been written for TWOW, which by many indications is at least half of it (hopefully). It's not like the book needs to be physically released for them to adapt it, especially when GRRM is working so closely with them.

[The Eunuch]

The plot outlines were given by GRRM in case he dies, not to do his job. I know the wait has been long for many readers, but it is not a reason to wish and believe that.

Read the interview I posted, GRRM doesn't want them to catch him. He's executive producer, writer and author of the material, do you really think they would do that to him? This would be a publicity disaster. Plus, it would be a nightmare to write all the scenes, dialogues and characters death. It would take much more time than simply adapting a book.

Seriously, this can't happen. It is much more likely that they split book 4 and 5 in 2 our 3 seasons to gain time.

[Mr Fixit]

Seriously, this can't happen.

Yeah, well, tough luck. :cool4:

[Khal-a-bunga]

@ The Eunuch

Sorry, but it can - and almost certainly will - happen. The writers, the network, and the production team are not going to spend 'two or three seasons' on AFfC & ADwD for any reason, let alone to allow Martin the time to finish the books. The hope is that Martin can motivate himself to finish the novels prior to the show catching up in full, but that will come down to whether or not he can buckle down and get these last two books finished in a reasonable amount of time.

There are plenty of interviews out there discussing this very issue, and they all say basically the same thing: That D&D are hopeful Martin can stay abreast of the show, but that they are also taking measures to ensure they're able to finish the series without published source material to work off of. It's one thing to have an opinion on how you'd like these things to work out, but when you ignore the reality of the situation, it makes it hard to take your argument seriously.

And spouting out completely fabricated stuff like, 'The plot outlines were given by G.R.R.M. in case he dies...' doesn't help either.

[TimeforTravel]

The plot outlines were given by GRRM in case he dies, not to do his job. I know the wait has been long for many readers, but it is not a reason to wish and believe that.

Read the interview I posted, GRRM doesn't want them to catch him. He's executive producer, writer and author of the material, do you really think they would do that to him? This would be a publicity disaster. Plus, it would be a nightmare to write all the scenes, dialogues and characters death. It would take much more time than simply adapting a book.

Seriously, this can't happen. It is much more likely that they split book 4 and 5 in 2 our 3 seasons to gain time.

Three seasons even? Are you sure it won't be four?

GRRM, the fans and D&D don't really want to finish before the books are done, but it would be even worse if HBO want seven seasons and they have only one season of space left to adapt TWOW and ADOS. And THAT is the reason grmm told them the plot outlines, not in case he would die. It is incredibly likely that books 4&5 will be put together in one season. It is possible that season 6 still introduces some DWD storylines along with TWOW, but TWOW will most likely be the main storyline in season 6.

What do you want? After season 4, which could very well be the most suspense and action packed season, do you want season 5 to be the most boring and calm one?

[Titan]

If you don't go into TWOW, there are some pretty good season ending spots for some story-lines for season 5:

- Dany in the fighting pits, flying off with Drogon

- Cersei's walk of shame (although that may be ep 9)

- Assassination of Jon

- Vary's reappearance and word that a Targaryen has landed in Westeros. (fade to black)

[The Eunuch]

I understand your points but I still don't see why they should rush such a successful series.

In this case, we could have said at the begining "there are too many subplots and characters in the 5 books, so we'll trim it and the story will be : Jon goes to the Wall, becomes Lord Commander. Dany gets her dragons and comes to Westeros. Big battle with the Others, and one or another (or both) sits in the Iron Throne. The end.

The travels through Westeros and Essos, the descriptions, the many characters and backgrounds, all of this is a pleasure and part of this masterpiece.

Why was it good in the first seasons, but should be trimmed in the book 4 and 5 ? For instance, "Arya spending time in Harrenhal" or "Bran dreaming he flies" was perfect, but "Tyrion spending time sailing accross Essos and meeting a potential king" or "Deanerys struggling to rule and losing her dragons" is bad and should be trimmed? Daenerys marrying a dothraki was good, but marrying a man of Meereen is bad or "boring" as you say.

Don't you think your judgment is motivated by your bad reception of book 4?

I can understand that some readers hated book 4 because their favorite characters where not in it while they waited 5 years to read about them... But the series won't have this problem because it would be mixed up with the first part of book 5. The list of cliffhangers I gave is valid.

I read the books in a row and books 4 and 5 were as good as the others. I don't see the point to rush it, while the ratings are so good.

[TimeforTravel]

I understand your points but I still don't see why they should rush such a successful series.

In this case, we could have said at the begining "there are too many subplots and characters in the 5 books, so we'll trim it and the story will be : Jon goes to the Wall, becomes Lord Commander. Dany gets her dragons and comes to Westeros. Big battle with the Others, and one or another (or both) sits in the Iron Throne. The end.

The travels through Westeros and Essos, the descriptions, the many characters and backgrounds, all of this is a pleasure and part of this masterpiece.

Why was it good in the first seasons, but should be trimmed in the book 4 and 5 ? For instance, "Arya spending time in Harrenhal" or "Bran dreaming he flies" was perfect, but "Tyrion spending time sailing accross Essos and meeting a potential king" or "Deanerys struggling to rule and losing her dragons" is bad and should be trimmed? Daenerys marrying a dothraki was good, but marrying a man of Meereen is bad or "boring" as you say.

Don't you think your judgment is motivated by your bad reception of book 4?

I can understand that some readers hated book 4 because their favorite characters where not in it while they waited 5 years to read about them... But the series won't have this problem because it would be mixed up with the first part of book 5. The list of cliffhangers I gave is valid.

I read the books in a row and books 4 and 5 were as good as the others. I don't see the point to rush it, while the ratings are so good.

If they do what you call rushing (I call it making an action packed season) the ratings may very well remain as high as they are now. I'm all for including the iron islands and Dorne, but hopefully they can trim it down just enough to put all of AFFC and ADWD in 1,5 seasons max. I believe that incredible events like Neds death, Blackwater, the Red Wedding and Joffrey's death is what makes the ratings grow. After such an impactful event, people tell their friends and family about this great show. I don't recall such great events in books 4 and 5, but if they put everything in one season, the quality and the ratings will probably remain high.

[Ashas Globetrotter]

Assuming AFFC and ADWD is 1 season, which is most likely if the going to make 7 seasons in total.

Season 4:

Tyrion: Kills tywin and escapes

Jamie: Releases Tyrion

Cersei: Bitter as always

Arya: Off to Pentos

Bran: Meets the three-eyed crow/ TCOTF

Jon: Defends the wall

Sansa: Witnessing Lysa getting offed

Dani: Sends Jorah off. Decides to stay i Mereen: "I will rule"

Stannis: Saves the wall

Brienne: Off looking for Arya/Sansa

Theon: Preparing for going to wedding in winterfell

Yara: Back to Iron Islands

Ellaria: Back to Dorne for some plotting

Season 5

Tyrion: Watches Dani fly off

Jamie: Goes with Brienne to lady Stoneheart

Cersei: Walk of shame, introduces Ungregor

Arya: Not sure, somewhere after meeting sam

Bran: TWOW

Jon: Stabbed

Sansa: TWOW

Dani: Flies off (possibly meets dothrakis)

Stannis: Battle at winterfell

Brienne: Goes with Jamie to lady S.

Theon: At the battle of winterfell

Yara: At the battle of winterfell

Hopefully, but sadly doubtfully with us:

(Victarion reaches Mereen)

(Euron scheming in Pyke)

(Quentyn: Roasted)

(Doran: reveals plans)

(Ellaria Scheming)

(Arianne: failed Myrcella plot)

(very uncertain about how much they will keep of both Iron Islands and especially Dorne characters/plot.

Maybe they will combine Euron and Victarion, and Ellaria and Arianne to simplify??)

[Ashas Globetrotter]

By following the plot outlines given to them by GRRM when they need them according to his contractual obligations to them. This was made clear when they were questioned on the issue after S1.

Yep, they have confirmed several times that they have a deal with Martin to get the basic plotlines so they can finish the show in case they catch up.

They have also stated several times that they will not let the show drag out, and they want to make 7, or possibly 8 seasons.

TWOW will be out in 2015 the EARLIEST, and ADOS will not be out intil 2019 the EARLIEST, so we have to stop clinging to our pipedreams. The show will end in 2017 or 2018, without ADOS, sad to say, but D and D have no choice. Worst case ASOIAF won`t be concluded until 2025, and they can`t stick around for that to happen.

[Insomniadict]

Why was it good in the first seasons, but should be trimmed in the book 4 and 5 ? For instance, "Arya spending time in Harrenhal" or "Bran dreaming he flies" was perfect, but "Tyrion spending time sailing accross Essos and meeting a potential king" or "Deanerys struggling to rule and losing her dragons" is bad and should be trimmed? Daenerys marrying a dothraki was good, but marrying a man of Meereen is bad or "boring" as you say.

But comparing Arya in Harrenhal to Daenerys in Meereen is not at all a one-to-one comparison. Arya was in Harrenhal in the show from 2.04 to 2.08. If you're correct and AFFC/ADWD are two seasons, then Daenerys will be ruling Meereen for almost 30 episodes, given that she'll apparently be conquering the city in 4.03 or 4.04. And by all indications, "Daenerys struggling to rule and losing her dragons" will be a major part of the current season, so after a point it would become very redundant to have that stretched out over three seasons, especially when there's an established destination for her storyline that the audience has been anticipating.

[Winnief]

But comparing Arya in Harrenhal to Daenerys in Meereen is not at all a one-to-one comparison. Arya was in Harrenhal in the show from 2.04 to 2.08. If you're correct and AFFC/ADWD are two seasons, then Daenerys will be ruling Meereen for almost 30 episodes, given that she'll apparently be conquering the city in 4.03 or 4.04. And by all indications, "Daenerys struggling to rule and losing her dragons" will be a major part of the current season, so after a point it would become very redundant to have that stretched out over three seasons, especially when there's an established destination for her storyline that the audience has been anticipating.

Precisely. Remember we're meeting Hizdar this season too. My guess is that they'll have the battle of Mereen at the end of Season 5.

Also since Asha, is going to be going to battle at the Dreadfort, I'm betting she gets taken prisoner by Stannis's troops this season too...setting it up for Reek's escape from Ramsey in Season 5 and their re-union-and maybe even Theon's beheading/sacrifice.

We know we're meeting Tycho this season and seeing Braavos...which might also mean Arya makes it there by the end of this season and thus Season 5 is spent on her training, and she starts back home no later than early Season 6.

And as said, Bran and Sansa in Season 5 will almost certainly have their storylines include stuff from TWOW

[AzorAhai42]

I'm terrible at going character by character, but I think that the most likely possibility is that aFfC and aDwD will take up about 1 to 1 and 1/2 seasons. The main reason I say this is because the writers have already said they plan to finish everything in 7 seasons. And I can't imagine tWoW and aDoS only taking one season. I would imagine that those two books will require at least a season and a half.

[JonDunn]

The plot outlines were given by GRRM in case he dies, not to do his job. I know the wait has been long for many readers, but it is not a reason to wish and believe that.

Read the interview I posted, GRRM doesn't want them to catch him. He's executive producer, writer and author of the material, do you really think they would do that to him? This would be a publicity disaster. Plus, it would be a nightmare to write all the scenes, dialogues and characters death. It would take much more time than simply adapting a book.

Seriously, this can't happen. It is much more likely that they split book 4 and 5 in 2 our 3 seasons to gain time.

It shocks me the level of willful ignorance some people have.

Wow. I feel bad that you don't see the clear facts ahead of you

[Zombies That Were Promised]

She hasn't even taken Meereen, and Unsullied response is getting weary of her slave city liberation rhetoric. I'm interested to hear what they'll say when she decides to stop moving in Episode 5 and start ruling for a dozen or so episodes.

Really need to rush Meereen as much as possible. Make S6 her journey to Westeros, with the S6 finale having her land and finally interacting with the rest of the cast of the show.

[The Eunuch]

It shocks me the level of willful ignorance some people have. Wow. I feel bad that you don't see the clear facts ahead of you

It feels good to be called "ignorant" just because I expressed my opinion... I guess you would feel good in Iran of North Korea where everybody has the same opinion.

I guess you called "ignorant" the people who said book 3 could be divided in 2 seasons...

[Colonel Green]

It feels good to be called "ignorant" just because I expressed my opinion...

Your opinion is ignoring the plain facts of what everyone connected with the show has stated. The show is lasting seven or possibly eight seasons. They are not spending multiple full seasons on Books 4 and 5 with seven being the potential limit. Likewise, everyone involved has been clear they aren't waiting for George R. R. Martin to finish the books; that would completely derail the show.

Why was it good in the first seasons, but should be trimmed in the book 4 and 5 ? For instance, "Arya spending time in Harrenhal" or "Bran dreaming he flies" was perfect, but "Tyrion spending time sailing accross Essos and meeting a potential king" or "Deanerys struggling to rule and losing her dragons" is bad and should be trimmed? Daenerys marrying a dothraki was good, but marrying a man of Meereen is bad or "boring" as you say.

Arya's storyline to date is a good example of exactly what you think the series won't do, namely, condense incidents. Both season 2 and season 3 excised portions of Arya's story (especially season 3) in favour of locating her in a single setting for a majority of it (Harrenhal, the Brotherhood's cave).

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

Double post