(Book & Show Spoilers) Was it just me bothered by the Brienne & Cersei scene

[Sam with Hooters]

I'm not sure the Cersei/Brienne confrontation is really much in character for Cersei. IMHO she'd be more likely to make fun of her behind her back, something like this:

Cersei and Jaime are alone together (she's rebuffed him again).
Cersei: That hulking she-beast from Tarth is in love with you.
Jaime: Brienne? No.
Cersei: I've seen the way she looks at you when she thinks you're not looking. Can you imagine? That ungainly, oafish, mannish wench on your arm at all the dances at King's Landing! She probably *actually think's you'll marry her*! *smirk*
Jaime: She knows Kingsguard don't marry.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

I'm not sure the Cersei/Brienne confrontation is really much in character for Cersei. IMHO she'd be more likely to make fun of her behind her back, something like this:

Cersei and Jaime are alone together (she's rebuffed him again).

Cersei: That hulking she-beast from Tarth is in love with you.

Jaime: Brienne? No.

Cersei: I've seen the way she looks at you when she thinks you're not looking. Can you imagine? That ungainly, oafish, mannish wench on your arm at all the dances at King's Landing! She probably *actually think's you'll marry her*! *smirk*

Jaime: She knows Kingsguard don't marry.

Cersei mocks people to their face constantly on the show. Even Robert, albeit only once. It's one of the major aspects of the character, that she's openly bitchy toward anyone and everyone.

[Sam with Hooters]

...and undoubtedly much, MUCH WORSE behind their backs!

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

I don't know, I think show Cersei gets off on making people uncomfortable and abusing her power. She'd probably be just as brutal :p

[six]

Vis a vis Brienne and Margaery--this to me was a very obvious expository scene meant to cut out the later confrontation she has with Loras and having to spend time in a black cell before Loras is convinced Brienne didn't kill Renly. This, plus Brienne approaching Margaery and Joffrey so that Margaery could declare out loud that Brienne didn't kill Renly, removes the necessity of Brienne proving her innocence on that score. Something that will be missed, but that doesn't contribute to a streamlined narrative on the show; at this point, the main issue has to be getting Brienne going on her mission to find Sansa.

But Loras didn't think Brienne killed Renly in the show, he said so himself, so there was no need to go back there again. If anything I thought they wanted to remind us Brienne will go after Stannis at some point, but even that I don't know how relevant it is. Maybe if she's meant to meet Stannis at some point in the later books it is, but there's no way to know yet. But yeah, it definitely wasn't because anyone thought she killed Renly (although Joff's line about it was super funny).

I'm not sure the Cersei/Brienne confrontation is really much in character for Cersei. IMHO she'd be more likely to make fun of her behind her back, something like this:

Cersei and Jaime are alone together (she's rebuffed him again).

Cersei: That hulking she-beast from Tarth is in love with you.

Jaime: Brienne? No.

Cersei: I've seen the way she looks at you when she thinks you're not looking. Can you imagine? That ungainly, oafish, mannish wench on your arm at all the dances at King's Landing! She probably *actually think's you'll marry her*! *smirk*

Jaime: She knows Kingsguard don't marry.

Imo, this was the most in character Cersei has ever been since Blackwater. She wasn't after Brienne because of Jaime, Brienne irritated her because she's a lady who never had to master the curtsy, and she's free to roam and serve whatever lord she pleases, contrary to Cersei the former queen-regent to be married to her son's brother in law. It's only ooc if you look at it shallowy as Cersei being jealous.

[Le Cygne]

It really isn't cemented for me that Brienne loves Jaime until she has that dream where Renly transforms into Jaime after she's unconscious following her encounter with Biter.

No, I think they are right on target here. The whole time they were together they were developing feelings for each other. The Oathkeeper scene has lots of undertones, I think GRRM was right to set that up. He thinks her eyes are astonishing. She gets flustered when he says blue is a good color on her, and says his white cloak becomes him.

And throughout AFFC, she's thinking of him naked and a god, then she tries to think of Renly, so she knows she's thinking about Jaime the same way. Everywhere she goes, she remembers when Jaime was there. She dreams of him cloaking her (double meaning for her, that's part of the Westeros wedding ceremony) instead of Renly.

Every other word to the Elder Brother is Jaime (and I bet that's how the Elder Brother heard about Sansa, when he found Sandor, and he couldn't shut up about her, either). Throughout AFFC Brienne has beyond lost it, but it starts in ASOS.

[aceluby]

What I find fascinating is that even after the author called out the romantic connection that was clearly there in the books some are insisting it wasn't there.

The bear and the maiden fair.

[SlowLoras]

Personally, I read Brienne's reaction as an 'oh shit, you two really are doing the incestuous do' type thing rather than a 'oh shit, she knows I like him'.

That said, I'm not a Brienne/Jaime shipper but it seems pretty obvious that there's some manner of attraction there - on both sides (I seem to recall Jaime getting a hard-on while staring at Brienne's crotch in the books.)

[Fool of a Book]

Too many issues with Jaime and Brienne's "early" arrival in KL, and all of them are bad.

[Onna Lewyys]

It seemed to be based more around shared experience, admiration and trust.

And what is this if not love?

And how would you write her feelings developing, since she's to leave KL soon? This is a case where the show had to just go for it and make it obvious as there are no other ways to develop it. Brienne is not going to start to talk her feelings for Jaime while on the road with Pod, right? We're not in her head, like in the books.

This exactly. She and Jaime are about to be separated for like a season-and-a-half, and we will not be privy to their inner thoughts while they're apart like in the book, so the writers really need to bring these feelings to the audience's attention now.

Imo, this was the most in character Cersei has ever been since Blackwater. She wasn't after Brienne because of Jaime, Brienne irritated her because she's a lady who never had to master the curtsy, and she's free to roam and serve whatever lord she pleases, contrary to Cersei the former queen-regent to be married to her son's brother in law. It's only ooc if you look at it shallowy as Cersei being jealous.

Yes, this is such a super important element of the scene! Cersei resents her confinement to traditional female roles (not being taught to fight like Jaime when they were kids, constantly being married off like a "horse", etc.), and now she's suddenly presented with a woman who is doing exactly as she likes, regardless of societal pressures. The scene is not just about Jaime. It's just that Jaime is the only real leverage that Cersei has over Brienne.

[Ser Creighton]

Did not enjoy that scene, it did not draw much of a reaction from me, but there was no build up to it. Now the part where Brie is wearing a matching jacket to Jaime's 3/4 leather duster had me laughing, would rather have more little things like that, then dropping a bomb like they did.

[Will&Chrismom]

Very good point about Cersei being jealous of Brienne, which is also hugely ironic: it's not as if Brienne isn't paying a pretty huge social price dressing as a man and going about as a knight, never mind that Brienne is homely. If Cersei were even slightly self-aware she might come to the conclusion that trying to live like Brienne might be more than she herself could handle. Cersei has always thought herself smarter and tougher than she really is.

[six]

Personally, I read Brienne's reaction as an 'oh shit, you two really are doing the incestuous do' type thing rather than a 'oh shit, she knows I like him'.

That said, I'm not a Brienne/Jaime shipper but it seems pretty obvious that there's some manner of attraction there - on both sides (I seem to recall Jaime getting a hard-on while staring at Brienne's crotch in the books.)

Ehm... I don't understand, some people complain the scene was too "hitting over the head" and left all subtlety out, yet some people still don't get it? I'm not trying to be an arse, but what makes you deduce that Brienne thought about the incest (something she already knows of btw, since Jaime spelled it out as "I only ever fucked my sister" when he was speaking to her and Cat right before Cat freed him)? There's nothing dubious or ambiguous about that scene. She loves him, but until Cersei threw it in her face, she had never thought of it.

Yes, this is such a super important element of the scene! Cersei resents her confinement to traditional female roles (not being taught to fight like Jaime when they were kids, constantly being married off like a "horse", etc.), and now she's suddenly presented with a woman who is doing exactly as she likes, regardless of societal pressures. The scene is not just about Jaime. It's just that Jaime is the only real leverage that Cersei has over Brienne.

Agreed, and tbh I thought it wasn't about Jaime at all. Cersei was angry and wanted to put Brienne back in the kitchen where all women belong. She was losing her power, there's a new queen and that's why after going after Brienne she rushes to insult Pycelle, and exercise her power over Margaery's by having the food fed to the dogs. Everything was about her, not Jaime and not Brienne. She just happened to be right when she suggested Brienne loved Jaime, but I doubt she put any thought in it.

[jaimecersei]

i hated the brienne/cersei scene because it was such obvious fan-service and i hate love triangles. like i wouldn't have cared if they made it clear that brienne loves jaime from any other character but i hated that they had it to be cersei. ship jaime/brienne as much as you want but please leave cersei out of it.

it was honestly a scene out of some cheesy daytime soap opera or a CW teen show. judging anyone who thinks the scene was "deep" or "well-written". the tumblr metas on it have already been ridiculously embarrassing.

[Good Guy Garlan]

The thing was very direct and heavy-handed, that's what I didn't like about it.

And the fact that Brienne never got to talk to Sansa while in KL. She even talked to Joffrey, like what the hell

[Onna Lewyys]

I'm really sorry, but your screenname kind of precludes any credibility you might have on the subject for me, jaimecersei.

[jaimecersei]

^ I'm really sorry, but your screenname kind of precludes any credibility you might have on the subject for me.

if you're talking to me, then i can honestly say that my screen name doesn't mean much. jaime and cersei are simply the pov chapters i enjoy most in the books.and i was lazy when it came to picking a username here. i truly enjoy the jaime/brienne relationship in the books and think there are iromantic/sexual feelings involved.

but i still hate love triangles and think that scene was badly written. and i'm going to stick to my opinion.

[six]

i hated the brienne/cersei scene because it was such obvious fan-service and i hate love triangles. like i wouldn't have cared if they made it clear that brienne loves jaime from any other character but i hated that they had it to be cersei. ship jaime/brienne as much as you want but please leave cersei out of it.

it was honestly a scene out of some cheesy daytime soap opera or a CW teen show. judging anyone who thinks the scene was "deep" or "well-written". the tumblr metas on it have already been ridiculously embarrassing.

Why is it a love triangle? Do you actually believe Cersei cares or is remotely threatened? Also

Brienne is leaving in episode 4

so no triangle, obviously.

As for why it had to be Cersei, there's that scene in the books when Cersei finds out that instead of rushing to help her, Jaime took off with Brienne... It's a nice set up for her to know Brienne is in love with Jaime, it makes it more poignant for Cersei.

I ship Jaime and Brienne, but I'm a big fan of Cersei like you (and I also complained a lot the show took her agency away and made her sulk in a corner for most of season 3) and I loved that whole scene. If you read my earlier posts, for me that scene was all about Cersei.

[jaimecersei]

Why is it a love triangle? Do you actually believe Cersei cares or is remotely threatened? Also

Brienne is leaving in episode 4

so no triangle, obviously.

As for why it had to be Cersei, there's that scene in the books when Cersei finds out that instead of rushing to help her, Jaime took off with Brienne... It's a nice set up for her to know Brienne is in love with Jaime, it makes it more poignant for Cersei.

I ship Jaime and Brienne, but I'm a big fan of Cersei like you (and I also complained a lot the show took her agency away and made her sulk in a corner for most of season 3) and I loved that whole scene. If you read my earlier posts, for me that scene was all about Cersei.

look its totally cool you enjoyed the scene but i still think it was cheesy, fan-servicey and generally horrible. it was such an obvious trope too. i liked that cersei only saw brienne from afar in the books and would have preferred if they had kept it that way on the show.

and i fucking hate the idea that cersei knows that jaime doesnt rescue her because he's love with brienne. so cliche and cheesy. i like how in the book cersei thinks that jaime would be too shallow to run off with someone like brienne. makes sense with her internalized misogyny. cersei knowing that jaime loves brienne makes it love-triangley. i hated it. it was bad writing, and i'm going to stick with that.

[Onna Lewyys]

if you're talking to me, then i can honestly say that my screen name doesn't mean much. jaime and cersei are simply the pov chapters i enjoy most in the books.and i was lazy when it came to picking a username here. i truly enjoy the jaime/brienne relationship in the books and think there are iromantic/sexual feelings involved.

but i still hate love triangles and think that scene was badly written. and i'm going to stick to my opinion.

I apologize for the assumption then. But I don't think the scene was about a love triangle.