R+L=J v.79

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I think that Ghost is actually a nod to both Jon's Targaryen and Stark roots.

He's an albino, like Bloodraven, another half-Targaryen skinchanger, which ties into Jon's Targaryen side. And the wolf also looks like a weirwood tree, something Jon himself notes in the third book. Which ties into the old gods/Stark side.

I do find it interesting that despite Bloodraven calling on Bran to take up the greenseer mantle, the wolf that most physically resembles Bloodraven is sent to Jon. Which could tie into the idea that Bran is a means and Jon is the end; Bran is the Frodo and Jon is the Aragron, etc.

[TheZone]

Probably I was wrong... she did not get tanned... unless it was in ACOK,idk... I've seen some artworks of her tanned...

There was a passage when she goes to the market and almost gets poisoned. The merchant mistook her for a dothraki or so she thought, It always bothered me as an extremely pale person that they dont carry around aloe..

[Lyse Stark]

I think that Ghost is actually a nod to both Jon's Targaryen and Stark roots.

He's an albino, like Bloodraven, another half-Targaryen skinchanger, which ties into Jon's Targaryen side. And the wolf also looks like a weirwood tree, something Jon himself notes in the third book. Which ties into the old gods/Stark side.

I do find it interesting that despite Bloodraven calling on Bran to take up the greenseer mantle, the wolf that most physically resembles Bloodraven is sent to Jon. Which could tie into the idea that Bran is a means and Jon is the end; Bran is the Frodo and Jon is the Aragron, etc.

And Ghost also reminds me of an anime character from a series called Evangelion. Her name is Rei Ayanami. Both are mysterious, and seems supernatural, and they know things that their fellow companions didn't. Also Rei played a vital role in Evangelion's endgame, while Ghost may do the same in Jon's.

[Harlaw's Book the Sequel]

I think that Ghost is actually a nod to both Jon's Targaryen and Stark roots.

He's an albino, like Bloodraven, another half-Targaryen skinchanger, which ties into Jon's Targaryen side. And the wolf also looks like a weirwood tree, something Jon himself notes in the third book. Which ties into the old gods/Stark side.

I do find it interesting that despite Bloodraven calling on Bran to take up the greenseer mantle, the wolf that most physically resembles Bloodraven is sent to Jon. Which could tie into the idea that Bran is a means and Jon is the end; Bran is the Frodo and Jon is the Aragron, etc.

All of the above, plus I think Ghost looking like a weirwood could also be a specific reference to Lyanna. The weirwood on TKOLT's shield seems to be the closest thing she had to a personal sigil.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

All of the above, plus I think Ghost looking like a weirwood could also be a specific reference to Lyanna. The weirwood on TKOLT's tree seems to be the closest thing she had to a personal sigil.

Yep, that's a good point too.

[J. Stargaryen]

All of the above, plus I think Ghost looking like a weirwood could also be a specific reference to Lyanna. The weirwood on TKOLT's tree seems to be the closest thing she had to a personal sigil.

He was walking through the crypts beneath Winterfell, as he he had walked a thousand times before. The Kings of Winter watched him pass with eyes of ice, and the direwolves at their feet turned their great stone heads and snarled. Last of all, he came to the tomb where his father slept, with Brandon and Lyanna beside him. “Promise me, Ned,” Lyanna’s statue whispered. She wore a garland of pale blue roses, and her eyes wept blood.

- AGoT, Eddard XIII

Another connection to the weirwood trees. The ones with faces carved into them can appear to cry tears of blood.

[Ygrain]

- AGoT, Eddard XIII

Another connection to the weirwood trees. The ones with faces carved into them can appear to cry tears of blood.

Which is a peculiar contradiction to the laughing tree. What started more or less as a prank turned into tears.

[Harlaw's Book the Sequel]

- AGoT, Eddard XIII

Another connection to the weirwood trees. The ones with faces carved into them can appear to cry tears of blood.

Yeah, I definitely think she became her sigil just as much current generation of Starks became direwolves. Also to add the list of Lyanna-weirwood similarities I made up a while ago, people can't lie in front of weirwoods, and people make promises to weirwoods --promises they have to keep despite the cost. Ned didn't lie to Lyanna, and he kept his promise to her.

[J. Stargaryen]

Which is a peculiar contradiction to the laughing tree. What started more or less as a prank turned into tears.

Nice. Also, in that dream she's wearing a garland of pale blue roses, which she earned for her exploits as the KotLT.

Yeah, I definitely think she became her sigil just as much current generation of Starks became direwolves. Also to add the list of Lyanna-weirwood similarities I made up a while ago, people can't lie in front of weirwoods, and people make promises to weirwoods --promises they have to keep despite the cost. Ned didn't lie to Lyanna, and he kept his promise to her.

Interesting! The only thing is we can't be sure that he kept all of his promises to her.

When he slept, he dreamed: dark disturbing dreams of blood and broken promises.

- AGoT, Eddard XV

[Fire Eater]

I think that Ghost is actually a nod to both Jon's Targaryen and Stark roots.

He's an albino, like Bloodraven, another half-Targaryen skinchanger, which ties into Jon's Targaryen side. And the wolf also looks like a weirwood tree, something Jon himself notes in the third book. Which ties into the old gods/Stark side.

I do find it interesting that despite Bloodraven calling on Bran to take up the greenseer mantle, the wolf that most physically resembles Bloodraven is sent to Jon. Which could tie into the idea that Bran is a means and Jon is the end; Bran is the Frodo and Jon is the Aragron, etc.

Not to mention that BR was the result of a Targaryen and a girl from a First Men house that worshiped the Old Gods.

[Disputatious]

That's where discussion came from, right? While Aegon I was still alive, there was already a discussion on which son would follow him: Aenys, his eldest son, but birthed by his younger sister, or Maegor, his youngest son, but birthed by his eldest sister.

Eventually they settled on the eldest son, which was Aenys. We don't know why Maegor got the throne before Jaehaerys, but some people have said that it was partly because Maegor had married himself to Aenys' eldest daughter (who could possibly be Rhaena, but who also could have been another sister). The girl was then older than Jaehaerys, strengthening Maegor's claim. (please remember this has not yet been confirmed, it came from someone;s memory, and I read it about half a year ago).

So it was probably just the eldest son, married to the eldest daughter, to prevent all problems (if younger sons were married to the eldest daughter, they could make a claim for this child is the daughter was the absolute eldest child). It's also possible that a second, or third wife only came into the picture after the first boy and girl were born from the original marriage, preventing such discussions all together.

I don't think we have enough info on this though.

For some reason (free association can be abusive :) ) this reminds me of the following stanza from a Bob Dylan song:

"Now the fifth daughter on the twelfth night

Told the first father that things weren't right

My complexion she said is much too white

He said come here and step into the light

he says hmmm you're right

Let me tell second mother this has been done

But the second mother was with the seventh son

And they were both out on Highway 61."

Bob Dylan

"Highway 61"

Unless someone has a SSM to quote, I assume that you are right about needing more info. Perhaps GRRM will have more to say about matters like this in the World Book. BTW does anyone know what the world book will look like? The one for The Wheel of Time is rather large height x width and has a mostly white dust jacket. It is accordingly is known as the BWB ("The Big White Book") on the Dragon Mount site.

[Northern_Star]

Howland Reed or the wetnurse Wylla are viable options to the revelation as well.

Unless (f)Aegon is actually the son of Ashara Dayne and Eddard Stark who is accompanied by his aunt Lyanna/Lemore (or his mother). In that case John Snows true identity could be reveiled before (F)Aegons coronation in KL.

[Disputatious]

There is of course the Meereenese knot possibility as well, once Marwin shows up. Put Marwin together with Tyrion, Barristan, and either Ser Jorah or Daenerys. Marwyn starts recounting the information he has from Samwell about the danger at the wall, Ser Jorah or Dany asks about the blue rose in a chink in a wall of ice and Barristan and Tyrion take it from there. This would be a nice indirect way to let the reader know, whilst leaving room for some plot twists and turns. Toss in Victarion and Moqorro and stir vigorously.

[Chebyshov]

Unless (f)Aegon is actually the son of Ashara Dayne and Eddard Stark who is accompanied by his aunt Lyanna/Lemore (or his mother). In that case John Snows true identity could be reveiled before (F)Aegons coronation in KL.

This seems highly unlikely, unless Ned's somehow lying to himself in his own thoughts.

[OnlyOne]

R+L does equal Jon Snow. Reed knows. Also Tyrion is part Targaryen. Tywins wife is rumored to have had an affair with the Targ. Dany, Jon, and Tyrion killed their mothers when giving birth. I mean Tyrion is Martins fav charecter. Therefore I believe they are the three heads of the dragon. Ik this has been discussed to death and hopefully Martin doesn't die before he lets us all know. Interesting that in the show Brans vision shows ash falling in the throne room, a black dragon, and a destroyed Red Keep. The red keep wasn't built when Balerion lived. Danys vision showed snow. Many people are upset with the theory that Jon Snow can't be Azor Ahai and a Targ. Also, people who claim the three heads of the dragon might be Jon Snow by himself because of his three last names is a bit of a stretch to me. But in Martins world-who knows?

[FrozenFire3]

Interesting snippet from GRRM:

I: "What character would you play?" GRRM: "If I could magically clap my hands and become a different person, then it would be cool to play, you know, Jon Snow, say, who's much more the classic hero. Everybody wants to be the classic hero, right?"

Emphasis mine ;)

[Atroksia]

Just a small thought that just popped to my mind... Don't know if it's known evidence or not, there are just too many R+L=J threads around here... ;)

If Jon really was to be Ned's Bastard, why would've he give him the name Jon? I'm guessing that Ned called him after Jon Arryn, a man he really loved and looked up to. Would you do something like that if you cheated on your wife, carrying your bastard son home to her?

I guess you'd do that only if you knew who that "Bastard" really is, your beloved, late sister's son you have to protect and lie for.

Thoughts? :x

[Ghost's Shadow]

Yeah, it's indeed a bit odd to honour your mentor by naming your first bastard after him...

Or, actually, anyone's bastard, including your sister's.

Legitimate?

[Mithras]

Just a small thought that just popped to my mind... Don't know if it's known evidence or not, there are just too many R+L=J threads around here... ;)

If Jon really was to be Ned's Bastard, why would've he give him the name Jon? I'm guessing that Ned called him after Jon Arryn, a man he really loved and looked up to. Would you do something like that if you cheated on your wife, carrying your bastard son home to her?

I guess you'd do that only if you knew who that "Bastard" really is, your beloved, late sister's son you have to protect and lie for.

Thoughts? :x

Normally, a lord does not raise his own bastard in the first place.

[Atroksia]

Normally, a lord does not raise his own bastard in the first place.

Right, but Lord Eddard Stark was not quite a normal Lord. ;)