Thoughts on bonding with and taming dragons

[Suzanna Stormborn]

In PaTQ, there are cases of Targ children having eggs which died, also cases of children having eggs that they do not end up bonding with. What is the secret to Dragon bonding? Vhagar, one of Aegon I's three original dragons has been passed down to Aemond over the generations. So we know that once a rider dies that dragon can bond with another Targaryen.

Once the Targ's are in KL, yes they will house the dragons in the dragon pit for long or short periods of time, the tame dragons in PatQ do not seem to mind this, but Dany's dragons which have not been 'broken' or tamed yet seem to not like being confined at all. Same principle as Tillikum and the other killer whales at Seaworld, any animal in captivity for years and years does not grow to full strength or size or have a good mental status. I do not think Dany's dragons having only been locked up for a few months will suffer any permanent damage from this.

When Dany whipped and yelled at Drogon in the pit he became submissive to her, she had already bonded with him since before his fossilized egg hatched. She had the dragon dream of him full-grown before he was hatched, and heard his dragon song. So I believe he bent to her will rather easily since they were already bonded. I would like to see how the other 2 react to her at this point.

We also know from PatQ that a rider can have a passenger seat on the dragon if they choose, meaning 2 people can ride if one of them is that dragons rider. Also we know that a tame dragon will let a stranger on its back, but may or may not shake and roll that person off their backs. They can definitely sense who people are and tell them apart. The bond goes much deeper than that as well, as we see the 3 dragons mirroring Dany's mood over and over. It also happened in PatQ when Helaena killed herself, her dragon roared so loud it could be heard at the wall (exaggeration). Plus we know that the bond goes deep enough to almost equate to ESP, as the last chapter in Dance when Dany is laying by the stream having a miscarriage and basically dying, Drogon comes to find her and aide her, like she was a homing beacon and he could sense her distress from many miles away.

In the D&E novellas we see Dareon speaking of dragon dreams he has been having. he dreams of full-grown dragons even though he has never actually seen one. The targrayens have dragons in their brains and blood even if they are not around them and have never seen them. The 40 dragonlord families of ancient Valyria bound dragons to themselves with magic, sorcery and dragon horns. the Targaryens must have taken this a step further at some point and imprinted part of the dragon DNA onto themselves somehow, which accounts for the 2 separate half-dragon babies Dany and Rhaenyra had, as well as their above average heat tolerance and their ability to have prophetic dragon dreams, which no one else in Westeros or Valyria seems to ever have had.

As far as taming a wild dragon goes, it is hard to say based on PatQ, from the reading dragonseeds and nondragon seeds alike died side by side trying to tame the dragons, the already tamed dragons were much easier to accept new riders but still put up a fight to some of the would-be riders. NOw I am not sure if Rhaegal and Viserion fall into the totally 'wild' category or not, since they grew up with Dany and are familiar with humans. My guess is they will not be as hard to catch as say Cannibal, but that they will not be quite so easily tamed as Drogon was by Dany.

The dragon horn, is something I do not understand at all. There is not much info on them at all. I know that some of the dragonlord families from Valyria used horns to make the dragon subservient so that it could be turned into a slave, to like dig for precious metal or something, that the dragons were slaves to the dragonlords. So if you ask me, Dany is not going to be happy about Victarion or anyone turning one of her dragons into a slave. Plus as we have seen, ordinary humans cannot blow the horns without dying. I dont know if a Targ could without dying, but I doubt Dany is going to try it, so we may never know. So even though they have the horn, it seems unlikely that Vic will be able to have someone else blow the horn but the the dragons just come sit and roll over to Vic if he didn't blow the horn personally.

I would love other posters thoughts on dragon bonds, taming or riding and any thoughts on the horns. This is an open thread for dragon discussion only. Please no Targaryen/Dragon Hate posts, plenty of other threads for that.

Edit:6.24.14

Thank to The Rogue Prince, we now have more info on dragon riding/bonding/taming;

"By Royal decree, each of the Velaryon boys was presented with a dragon's egg in the cradle. those who doubted the paternity of RHaenyra's sons whispered that the eggs would never hatch, but the birth in turn of three young dragons gave the lie to their words. The hatchlings were named Vermax, Arrax and Tyraxes."

--From this we know that any trueborn Targ in the royal family is presented with an egg int he cradle to bond with. these three boys, obviously only 1/2 Targ through their mother and grandmother Aemma were able to hatch eggs even though they did not have a Valyrian father. So we know that 1/4 Targ is really enough to bond with a dragon. Also it was speculated that the 3 Strong boys would not even be able to hatch the eggs if they were not Targ. That really sheds some light on the question "Why didnt any commoners ever try to steal an egg?" It appears that if the commoner had no Valyrian/Targ blood then the egg would not ever hatch for them at all. If there is no dragonlord around, the eggs wont even bother hatching. Very interesting.

"Many a time they flew together on their dragons, and the princess's she-dragon Syrax produced several clutches of eggs."

--But the writing never says who those eggs go to specifically, which suggests that the Targ's simply had a great egg clutch somewhere, where they would pick a new egg out every time a dragonlord was born. Which also suggests that the eggs could sit and wait for however long while more Targs were being born. They dont seem to have a set gestation period in the eggs.

"After three days of delirium, Lady Laena rose from her bed and made her way from her room, intent on reaching Vhagar that she might fly one last time before she died."

--The bond between dragon and rider is very very strong. Laena wanted more than anything to ride/see her dragon one last time, not her mother or husband or children, but her dragon.

What did he want with some puny hatchling, or some stupid egg? Right thereat High Tide was a dragon worthy of him; Vhagar, the oldest, largest and most terrible dragon in the world. Even for a son of House Targaryen, there are always dangers in approaching a strange dragon, particularly an old, bad-tempered dragon who has recently lost her rider. His father and mother would never allow him near Vhagar, Aemond knew. So he made certain they did not know, sliding from his bed at dawn whilst they slept and stealing down to the great outer yard where Vhagar and the other dragons were fad and stabled. The prince had hoped to mount Vhagar in secrecy, but as he crept up to the dragon a boy's voice rang out: "You stay away from her!" The voice belonged to the youngest of his half nephews, Joffrey Velaryon, a boy of three. Always an early riser, Joff had sneaked down from his bed to see his own young dragon, Tyraxes. afraid that the boy would raise the alarm, Prince Aemond slapped him, shouted at him to be quiet, then shoved him backward into a pile of drgaon droppings. As Joff began to bawl, Aemond raced to Vhagar and clambered up onto her back. later he would say that he was so afraid of being caught that he forgot to be frightened of being burned to death and eaten. Call it boldness, call it madness, call it fortune of the will of the gods or the caprice of dragons. Who can know the mind of such a beast? We do know this: Vhagar roared, lurched to her feet, shook violently......then snapped her chains and flew. And the boy prince Aemond Targaryen became a dragonrider, circling twice around the towers of High Tide before coming down again.

There are many things to take away from this excerpt. First of all, If you are a Targ living at the Red Keep instead of Dragonstone, you may not get an egg in your cradle, since the egg stores seem to be only at Dragonstone.

Aemond is practical if nothing else, thinking that he would rather have a full-grown monster than have his own hatchling and raise his own dragon, which makes sense for his purposes.

Joffrey is a sweet buy who obviously loves his dragon, takes care of it...but in the end that made no difference. A bond is a bond regardless of how much effort the human puts into it. I just mean that even if the human takes no care to pet and pamper his dragon, the bond will still exist.

There are dragon droppings. We have never heard this before, Dany's dragons have never once pooped that I know of, I was beginning to think they had some sort of magic eating system and they didnt use the bathroom , but obviously they do.

Aemond's attitude when running onto the dragons back; distracted and not scared. Completely the opposite of Quentyn who was nervous, terrified, about to pee his pants. And we know Dany was bold, not afraid and forceful with Drogon. So it would appear that dragons can smell fear, especially on a potential rider or a stranger. The best course of action is to know in your mind that you can do it, and have no fear or trepidation when approaching the beast.

The author uses the word 'caprice' to describe the dragons demeanor again, just like in PatQ. Interesting word, which means; changing your mind or mood quickly. In this situation it refers to the fact that Vhagar's previous rider, Laena, has just died, they are at the funeral, a few days later, but Vhagar is already ready to accept a new rider. I think Vhagar must not get too attatched to her human riders, she must have had many by now, and whoever hatched her and had the initial bond is long dead. So it is interesting to me that she seems to have little to no remorse for her dead rider. Unlike Dreamfyre and Helaena in PatQ, Dreamfyre was said to have roared very loud when Helaena killed herself, and never took another rider IIRC. Either way Vhagar was fine getting a new rider already, she is temperamental ad fiesty. She is ready for action.

Aemond simply runs/climbs up her wing and onto her back. After he does, Vhagar clearly goes through some kind of transformation. "Vhagar roared, lurched to her feet, shook violently......then snapped her chains and flew." So accepting a new rider makes the roar, shake and fly off. Which is very similar to what drogon does once Dany is on him, granted that situation was different as he had a spear in his back and a lot was going on at the time. PLus Dany was already heavily bonded with Drogon when she rode him for the first time. It appears that Aemond bonded with Vhagar in a split second. He jumped on the dragons back, the dragon roared and shook and then broke off into flight, and that was all it took. Just one brave kid and an opportune moment.

When Dameon and Rhaenyra finally get together they have two sons, Aegon and Viserys. On Viserys: The child was smaller and less robust than his brother Aegon and his Velaryon half brothers, but proved to be a most precocious child ...... though, somewhat ominously, the dragon's egg placed in the cradle never hatched. the greens took that for an ill omen and were not shy about saying as much.

From this we know that some eggs do not hatch for Targ princelings. Maybe it was a bad egg, and maybe this Targ did not have the extra something special required to be a dragon lord. We knwo that King Viserys also preferred not to ride or hunt on a dragon. Not every Targ is cut out for it. But then a page later we see princess Helaena having challenged twins, slightly handicapped children, who both get an egg in the cradle and both of the eggs hatch. So there do not seem to be any patterns regarding which eggs will hatch or which Targ kids will be able to bond.

Oh and my favorite line of the novella;

With his trueborn children dead, by law his lands and titles should pass to his grandson Jacaerys .... but since Jace would presumably ascend the Iron Throne after his mother, Princess Rhaenyra urged her good-father to name instead her second son, Lucerys. lord Corlys also had half a dozen nephews, however, and the eldest of them, Ser Vaemond Velaryon, protested that the inheritance by rights should pass to him .... on the grounds that Rhaenyrs's sons were bastards sired by Harwin Strong. The princess was not slow in answering this charge. She dispatched Prince Daemon to seize Ser Vaemond, had his head removed and fed his carcass to her dragon.

IMO, this is the perfect use of her dragons, she didnt invade the island breathing fire and death to everyone, she simply showed this Velaryon guy who was boss, and what it meant to talk shit about the future queen's family while they have many dragons at their disposal.

[Night's_King]

That again?

But whatever. My thoughts:

I am a little helpless, I have to admit. Before tPatQ I was sure, that it is something bloodrelated. Because in all the years only Valyrians bonded Dragons. And in Westeros only Targaryens. I could not imagine that there were no nonvalyrian Dragonriders if it hasn't anything to do with blood.

Then there is tPanQ. There are likely a few riders which have no valyrian blood. And I simply cannot explain it. And on second thought: If valyrian blood suffices, then there are tons of people in Westeros which could bind a dragon. Only that it hardly happend. If it happened at all.

I silmply cannot explain it and I don't want to discuss again if valyrian or targaryen blood is a requirement or not. I think on that matter I'll wait till Martin gives us a clear answer.

[Nictarion]

I think GRRM wrote the "seeds" in TPatQ to make it ambiguous. I tend to lean towards the idea that most of the seeds did have some Targaryen blood. Nettles is the big question mark. The way she tamed Sheepstealer could be done by anyone. I would guess you don't have to be of Valyrian descent to be a dragon rider, but I think it would surely increase the chances of a successful bond.

The horn is going to be trouble for Dany imo. As she has already bonded to Drogon, I think the point of introducing the horn will be for someone else to steal a dragon. Perhaps the Valyrian's made their slaves blow the horns. We know the dragon is supposed to bond to the horns owner, not the one who blows the horn, as that is fatal. Euron could end up with a dragon, since he is the horns owner.

As far as Dany bonding to the dragons, specifically Drogon, I think its a unique situation. She is their mother, they drank from her breasts. I'd imagine all the other Targaryen dragons had other full grown dragons around to look after them. Dany may be the only human to ever raise the dragons the way she did. Her bond with Drogon is something special. He senses when she's in danger and comes to her aid. It's much like the Starks and their direwolves. I think her and Drogon's bond is probably one of the strongest a rider and dragon have probably ever had. I also think the theory that Jon or anyone else will ever ride Drogon is complete nonsense. I believe Dany and Drogon's fates are going to be intertwined. If Dany dies I think he will die with her.

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

Same principle as Tillikum and the other killer whales at Seaworld, any animal in captivity for years and years does not grow to full strength or size or have a good mental status. I do not think Dany's dragons having only been locked up for a few months will suffer any permanent damage from this.

i think the captivity effect might a myth. Targaryens had their dragons in two different locations.

Dragonpit, and dragonmont.

It is said the dragons from dragonpit never reached the size of previous dragons, therefore the rationa conclution would be that dragons in captivity are smaller.

the alternative explanation would be that dragons from dragonmont are bigger. Why? because it´s a volcanic environment. Fire and heat tend to make dragons more powerful in my opinion.

Same as Valyria.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

I think GRRM wrote the "seeds" in TPatQ to make it ambiguous. I tend to lean towards the idea that most of the seeds did have some Targaryen blood. Nettles is the big question mark. The way she tamed Sheepstealer could be done by anyone. I would guess you don't have to be of Valyrian descent to be a dragon rider, but I think it would surely increase the chances of a successful bond.

The horn is going to be trouble for Dany imo. As she has already bonded to Drogon, I think the point of introducing the horn will be for someone else to steal a dragon. Perhaps the Valyrian's made their slaves blow the horns. We know the dragon is supposed to bond to the horns owner, not the one who blows the horn, as that is fatal. Euron could end up with a dragon, since he is the horns owner.

As far as Dany bonding to the dragons, specifically Drogon, I think its a unique situation. She is their mother, they drank from her breasts. I'd imagine all the other Targaryen dragons had other full grown dragons around to look after them. Dany may be the only human to ever raise the dragons the way she did. Her bond with Drogon is something special. He senses when she's in danger and comes to her aid. It's much like the Starks and their direwolves. I think her and Drogon's bond is probably one of the strongest a rider and dragon have probably ever had. I also think the theory that Jon or anyone else will ever ride Drogon is complete nonsense. I believe Dany and Drogon's fates are going to be intertwined. If Dany dies I think he will die with her.

But how will the dragon inherently know that the horn belongs to Euron half a world away? And how does Euron have decided ownership over the horn? Just because he rubbed his blood on it?

[Suzanna Stormborn]

i think the captivity effect might a myth. Targaryens had their dragons in two different locations.

Dragonpit, and dragonmont.

It is said the dragons from dragonpit never reached the size of previous dragons, therefore the rationa conclution would be that dragons in captivity are smaller.

the alternative explanation would be that dragons from dragonmont are bigger. Why? because it´s a volcanic environment. Fire and heat tend to make dragons more powerful in my opinion.

Same as Valyria.

That's interesting, It seems like the dragons were progressively getting smaller after they went to Westeros. So you could be very right about that. Westeros is not the natural habitat of the dragons so their power wanes there. Do you think that is why they went extinct for a while and that it had nothing to do with keeping them contained?

IMO the dragons were dying out based on the cycle of the world and the fact that magic had lessened for several centuries or so. Than all the magic came back at once; the direwolves, the dragons and the white walkers all became powerful again around the same time.

[OberynBlackfyre]

I made a compendium on dragons and dragon lore that somewhat touches on this subject

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/101626-blood-and-fire-containing-spoilers-from-tpatq-to-twow/

[Nictarion]

But how will the dragon inherently know that the horn belongs to Euron half a world away? And how does Euron have decided ownership over the horn? Just because he rubbed his blood on it?

Good questions. I have to assume Euron knows the answers, or why give Victarion the horn at all?

[MoIaF]

I think GRRM wrote the "seeds" in TPatQ to make it ambiguous. I tend to lean towards the idea that most of the seeds did have some Targaryen blood. Nettles is the big question mark. The way she tamed Sheepstealer could be done by anyone. I would guess you don't have to be of Valyrian descent to be a dragon rider, but I think it would surely increase the chances of a successful bond.

I agree that GRRM made it ambiguous, perhaps just to add to the mystery of the bonding process. The big contention is probably Nettles, however, we do have the dragons positive reaction to Brow Ben Plumm which could show that all it takes is a few drops of Valyrian blood. However, more than that is the dragons own choice, they decide if they want to be ridden by a certain person.

What makes me lean towards the idea that there must be some Valyrian blood needed to ride a dragon is that all those years when the Valyrians were riding dragons no other people in Essos were able to ride dragons. There must have been dragons roaming free throughout Essos, and no one outside of Valyria was able to tame them? That seems very odd.

As far as Dany bonding to the dragons, specifically Drogon, I think its a unique situation. She is their mother, they drank from her breasts. I'd imagine all the other Targaryen dragons had other full grown dragons around to look after them. Dany may be the only human to ever raise the dragons the way she did. Her bond with Drogon is something special. He senses when she's in danger and comes to her aid. It's much like the Starks and their direwolves. I think her and Drogon's bond is probably one of the strongest a rider and dragon have probably ever had. I also think the theory that Jon or anyone else will ever ride Drogon is complete nonsense. I believe Dany and Drogon's fates are going to be intertwined. If Dany dies I think he will die with her.

Dany's bond with Drogon has been an ongoing process since her second chapter in AGOT. It culminates with them sharing a kill together.

n fact if you notice GRRM makes a direct correlation between the Stark children receiving their direwolves and Dany and her dragons. The FIRST chapter of AGOT is from Bran's perspective and it show us the Starks finding their direwolves. The LAST chapter in AGOT is Dany hatching her dragons.

[Mladen]

When it comes to dragon taming and dragonlore in general, I believe that we simply have no information enough to make any definitive conclusions. So, although we have some snippets of facts, thing is that we don't know much about it and that we can only speculate regarding some things. However, that doesn't mean that some things can be said with, if not 100% certainty, then at least, certainty we got up until now.

But, before I give my opinion about this, allow me to correct some mistakes, or give my input on OP:

1. I tend to believe that half-dragon babies is a myth. With that much inbreeding and messed up genetic pool, I would imagine that every now and then, a malformed baby was born. We should never forget that this was medieval setting and that some things would be called "monstrosity" even though there is a medical explanation. Never forget that many diseases have been considered to be "of the Devil, or Devil's mark" in our own medieval times, so I assume the same thing functions for Westeros. The babies Rhaenyra and Dany had could simply be malformed, and not product of nay "dragon DNA imprinting"

2. Prophetic dreams, whether we call them dragon-dreams, or anything else, is not something specifically bound to Dany and Rhaenyra, or even Targaryens, for as we have seen there are many who have prophetic dreams. Now, if we are to talk dragon-dreams, there were a lot of Targaryens who had, or thought to have, those dragon dreams. From Egg to Aemon, probably Rhaegar and many more... The dreams could simply mean anything and nothing, and as far as I am concerned, are not indication of any sort. At least not to this topic.

And now about the dragon taming:

I do believe that the bond itself Dany and Drogon share is in a way unique, but the way that bond is established, I am afraid, is nothing special. We have seen tons of children in TPATQ having their own dragon eggs which hatched and later are tamed. Nettles is also a wildcard here, since you can argue that she tamed her dragon by bringing him food. So, there has to be some sort of natural taming and bonding that is established with dragons as with any other animal.

Now, comparison with the bond Stark children have with their wolves is, IMO, a bit flawed. I do agree that that the parallels can be made, but between reports of the usage of horns, blood magic, it doesn't feel as natural as the skinchanger bond. We see that Starks had no need to "tame" direwolves as they were represented as the extensions of their personality. They nurtured them, loved them, took care of them, and the bond was established(even without that because we see in AGOT that Ghost almost "summoned" Jon, or that Jon sensed him). We see how Lady is almost unnaturally tame and how Sansa has had a lot of impact on her, we see that Shaggydog's aggressiveness is also shared by Rickon. Then we have Summer/Bran pairing where the bond is so strong that sometimes talking about one is also talking about another. I am not sure that we can say the same for dragons. I am certain that they can sense the loss of a rider, given that Barristan with great certainty said that no man could have ever ridden two dragons, nor the two people ever rode the same dragon at the same time. So, we here speak about exclusivity which we perhaps don't have in warging bond. But the fact that it needed blood magic and horns (or perhaps Targaryen discovered that they are not needed at all, that they forcefully do something that can be done peacefully) makes the comparison with warging, IMHO, wrong.

But how will the dragon inherently know that the horn belongs to Euron half a world away? And how does Euron have decided ownership over the horn? Just because he rubbed his blood on it?

Good questions. I have to assume Euron knows the answers, or why give Victarion the horn at all?

When GRRM said that Victarion is really stupid, I remember wondering why. He has a horn, he can blow it, dragons can be his. And then, just for a second, I thought that idea to be too easy, but then this occurred to me - what if Euron knew exactly what Victarion might do and prepared for this? I doubt that Euron would just sit and wait for Vic unless he knew that the horn will work and that it will work for his benefit.

[Nictarion]

n fact if you notice GRRM makes a direct correlation between the Stark children receiving their direwolves and Dany and her dragons. The FIRST chapter of AGOT is from Bran's perspective and it show us the Starks finding their direwolves. The LAST chapter in AGOT is Dany hatching her dragons.

Yeah, I definitely feel there is significance to this.

[Nictarion]

Mladen

Victarion obviously not going to blow the horn himself, he's knows it fatal.

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

more on the bond:

Who can know the heart of a dragon? Was it simple bloodlust that drove the Blue Queen to attack? Did the she-dragon come to help one of the combatants? If so, which? Some will claim that the bond between a dragon and dragonrider runs so deep that the beast shares his master’s loves and hates. But who was the ally here, and who the enemy? Does a riderless dragon know friend from foe?

(...)

The dead were strewn all around the city, and amongst them sprawled the carcasses of three dragons. One remained: Silverwing, Good Queen Alysanne’s mount in days of old, (....) Later, singers would tell of how she thrice lifted Vermithor’s wing with her nose, as if to make him fly again, but this is most like a fable.

Dragons could also have some kind of bond even after their rider´s death. And not neccesary to their last riders..

[OberynBlackfyre]

It is obvious that dragons can be tamed, and that from what we see, having a little bit of dragon blood doesn't hurt. As far as we know, Nettles was the only one who (we think) didn't have a drop of Valyrian blood within her, yet she connected with the dragon by seeing what he likes. That, and she also obtained the love of Daemon, so maybe it was even prophetic for her to get a dragon? I'm not saying she was goign to be some sort of savior, but I'm just saying GRRM has a funny way of working out fate within the books.

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

That's interesting, It seems like the dragons were progressively getting smaller after they went to Westeros. So you could be very right about that. Westeros is not the natural habitat of the dragons so their power wanes there. Do you think that is why they went extinct for a while and that it had nothing to do with keeping them contained?

IMO the dragons were dying out based on the cycle of the world and the fact that magic had lessened for several centuries or so. Than all the magic came back at once; the direwolves, the dragons and the white walkers all became powerful again around the same time.

either it´s because of magical cycles, or the Citadel Conspiracy..

the only thing we know is that after the Dance of Dragons, the few eggs that hatched produced weak and deformed dragons.. And shortly after eggs started failing..And the Targaryens couln´t get them to hatch.

I tend to think it was the Maesters. But then again..No one, not even in Essos people get to hatch dragon eggs..

Unless Illyrio was lying and Dany´s eggs weren´t from asshai, and were actually the ones from Rhaena of Pentos that actually escaped from whatever plot the Maesters had going.

[OberynBlackfyre]

either it´s because of magical cycles, or the Citadel Conspiracy..

the only thing we know is that after the Dance of Dragons, the few eggs that hatched produced weak and deformed dragons.. And shortly after eggs started failing..And the Targaryens couln´t get them to hatch.

I tend to think it was the Maesters. But then again..No one, not even in Essos people get to hatch dragon eggs..

Unless Illyrio was lying and Dany´s eggs weren´t from asshai, and were actually the ones from Rhaena of Pentos that actually escaped from whatever plot the Maesters had going.

I think the eggs could also equally have come from the dragon Sheepstealer, and that Sheepstealers bones were the ones found by Danys bloodrider when they were trying to look for refuge in the Red Waste.

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

I think the eggs could also equally have come from the dragon Sheepstealer, and that Sheepstealers bones were the ones found by Danys bloodrider when they were trying to look for refuge in the Red Waste.

True. Sheepstealer also escaped the Citadel plot (if there is such thing). But the bones found in the red waste could very well be from Old Valyria..

I´m not so sure Sheepstealer escaped to Essos.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Interesting thread Suzanne

I think the bond between a rider and a dragon is bit symbiotic, and also a bit mental.

Drogon understands dany's actions compared to the other dragons because of their connection

This quote is one of my favourite examples, it was before Dany was about to make the deal with the slavers in Astapor:

Aggo went before her with his great Dothraki bow. Strong Belwas walked to the right of her mare, the girl Missandei to her left. Ser Jorah Mormont was behind in mail and surcoat, glowering at anyone who came too near. Rakharo and Jhogo protected the litter. Dany had commanded that the top be removed, so her three dragons might be chained to the platform. Irri and Jhiqui rode with them, to try and keep them calm. Yet Viserion’s tail lashed back and forth, and smoke rose angry from his nostrils. Rhaegal could sense something wrong as well. Thrice he tried to take wing, only to be pulled down by the heavy chain in Jhiqui’s hand. Drogon coiled into a ball, wings and tail tucked tight. Only his eyes remained to tell that he was not asleep.

The other dragons seem to get wild before Dany made the deal, but Drogon was calm as if he already knew what was going to happen. I believe its even written in a way for us to make the distinction, especially with the usage of words such as "only his eyes remained to tell he was not asleep" in contrast to the other dragons acting wildly.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

2. Prophetic dreams, whether we call them dragon-dreams, or anything else, is not something specifically bound to Dany and Rhaenyra, or even Targaryens, for as we have seen there are many who have prophetic dreams. Now, if we are to talk dragon-dreams, there were a lot of Targaryens who had, or thought to have, those dragon dreams. From Egg to Aemon, probably Rhaegar and many more... The dreams could simply mean anything and nothing, and as far as I am concerned, are not indication of any sort. At least not to this topic.

I agree there are many things we still need to find out, and most of these ideas cannot be said with 100% certainty. For the record I am defintiely not saying I am 100% right about anything in the OP, just what I have gathered based on reading and discussion. And I did not start this thread to argue about Whose blood is required to ride a dragon. Even if we say that Nettles is not a dragonseed. that still means that 99.999% of the riders and dragon bonds in TWOIAF are of Valyrian decent, so for the purpose of conversation it makes sense to only include Valyrians.

So regarding the dragon dreams, the reason the Targ's left Valyria is that Daena Targaryen had a prophetic dream of the doom of Valyria and talked her father into leaving with their whole family, they were accompanied by the Velaryons and the Celtigars who were not Dragon lord families. So we know that even in Valyria there was a separation between blood lines that could tame and ride dragons and those who could not. There were 40 dragonlord families, yet 1000's of other families in Valyria that could not ride/tame/bond with dragons. So right from the beginning when they found dragons there were clearly those who could do it and those who could not. If this girl Daena had a prophetic dream of the doom and was absolutely correct about it, that means that none of the other families of dragon lords had prophetic capabilities. Or if they did they were not as good as the Targaryens were at it. And that was 400 years before Dany was born, So the fact that her bloodline has mantained this ability over a 400 year period is quite impressive, when no other families seem to have picked this ability up.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Dany's bond with Drogon has been an ongoing process since her second chapter in AGOT. It culminates with them sharing a kill together.

n fact if you notice GRRM makes a direct correlation between the Stark children receiving their direwolves and Dany and her dragons. The FIRST chapter of AGOT is from Bran's perspective and it show us the Starks finding their direwolves. The LAST chapter in AGOT is Dany hatching her dragons.

I agree most of the dragon lore I've read in other works dont have a definite bond, the bond grows as time goes on.