Cersei initially wanted Ned dead, right?

[Kaguya]

After he was arrested for treason, she initially wanted him executed too, but Vary's convinced her it was wiser to send him to the black, i recall seeing this in either the first or 2nd book, was this true or was i hallucinating?

[ChaosImprisonateMe]

I think she would have liked to use Ned for a longer period than he did. Once Robert was injured there was a lot of questioning about her security, I think it essentially became a non-issue.

[LadyoftheNorth72]

At the time Cersei still had some political marbles rolling around in her head. She knew that executing Ned Stark was an extremely bad political move. Sending him to the NW would have gotten him out of her way forever and she could have worked out peace with the north, which she needed so she could deal with Stannis and Renly.

Cersei knew Ned was a man of his word - if he vowed to keep her little incest secret, he would have kept his vow (for all the good it would have done her, with Stannis's letters already being written).

Worse, once Jaime was captured, Ned On A Stick made a hostage exchange impossible, because the Lannisters no longer held anyone high ranking enough to trade.

I don't think Cersei had anything personal against Ned, she just wanted him out of the way. I believe it genuinely horrified her that he was killed. Not because she would miss him but because it ensured another conflict/war they did not need.

[Kaguya]

But cersei is pretty stupid (seeing that extensively while reading AFFC) so I believe that Varys counciling her on it would have made sense.

[Lady Woodland]

But cersei is pretty stupid (seeing that extensively while reading AFFC) so I believe that Varys counciling her on it would have made sense.

I wouldn't call Cersei stupid, she's manipulative, power hungry, condescending, arrogant, beautiful, conniving & spiteful.

However she's also a mother who loves her children, & unfortunately loves her brother in a way that is no longer acceptable by the laws of the current regime, (though in her mind its all good)

As you haven't finished reading yet I won't say any more about her coming Arc, & you can faithfully believe as everyone else does that everything Varys does is for the good of the realm. :thumbsup:

[horizon]

Actually, before Ned is arrested Cersei kind of hints at having sex with Eddard for both their gain & control of Westeros.

And, aye, she did want him death.

[Petyr Patter]

After he was arrested for treason, she initially wanted him executed too, but Vary's convinced her it was wiser to send him to the black, i recall seeing this in either the first or 2nd book, was this true or was i hallucinating?

I don't think we have a definitive answer one way or another. Eddard himself thought he was as good as dead once arrested. Cersei probably saw Eddard as a threat because he knew Joffrey was a bastard. Of course, she is the most unreliable narrator in story. She probably planned to hold onto him until the transition of power was complete, but of course Renly rebelled and the rest is history.

[Kaguya]

I wouldn't call Cersei stupid, she's manipulative, power hungry, condescending, arrogant, beautiful, conniving & spiteful.

However she's also a mother who loves her children, & unfortunately loves her brother in a way that is no longer acceptable by the laws of the current regime, (though in her mind its all good)

As you haven't finished reading yet I won't say any more about her coming Arc, & you can faithfully believe as everyone else does that everything Varys does is for the good of the realm. :thumbsup:

I never said Varys was good, and Cersei is all those things, I agree...Still doesn't stop her from being stupid

[Mirri Maz Durr]

I don't believe she wanted him dead. At least not right away. Maybe planning on killing him later at the wall, and making it look like an accident.

[King Tyrion I]

At the time Cersei still had some political marbles rolling around in her head. She knew that executing Ned Stark was an extremely bad political move. Sending him to the NW would have gotten him out of her way forever and she could have worked out peace with the north, which she needed so she could deal with Stannis and Renly.

Cersei knew Ned was a man of his word - if he vowed to keep her little incest secret, he would have kept his vow (for all the good it would have done her, with Stannis's letters already being written).

Worse, once Jaime was captured, Ned On A Stick made a hostage exchange impossible, because the Lannisters no longer held anyone high ranking enough to trade.

I don't think Cersei had anything personal against Ned, she just wanted him out of the way. I believe it genuinely horrified her that he was killed. Not because she would miss him but because it ensured another conflict/war they did not need.

:agree: Pretty much this.

Cersei wanted Ned to take the Black. It was Joffrey who didn't play by the rules by having him executed.

[Kaguya]

:agree: Pretty much this.

Cersei wanted Ned to take the Black. It was Joffrey who didn't play by the rules by having him executed.

I must have been seeing things when i saw Varys claiming he changed her mind. It would help for someone who has read the first 2 books recently to weigh in.

[King Tyrion I]

I must have been seeing things when i saw Varys claiming he changed her mind. It would help for someone who has read the first 2 books recently to weigh in.

I might want to re-read AGoT.^^

EDith: just checked with my best buddy who also read the books.

It was certainly Joffrey who wanted to see him dead. Cersei planned to let him take the Black - as a sign of her mercy.

[Mirri Maz Durr]

I might want to re-read AGoT.^^

EDith: just checked with my best buddy who also read the books.

It was certainly Joffrey who wanted to see him dead. Cersei planned to let him take the Black - as a sign of her mercy.

Not mercy, but foresight.

[TheSnape]

Not mercy, but foresight.

Not even foresight, I think she did want him dead but she was too scared of Tywin (who did want Ned alive) to execute Ned. Joffrey, as we see later, hasn't yet learned to be scared of Tywin

[King Tyrion I]

Not mercy, but foresight.

Not even foresight, I think she did want him dead but she was too scared of Tywin (who did want Ned alive) to execute Ned. Joffrey, as we see later, hasn't yet learned to be scared of Tywin

It would have been a sign that Cersei as Robert's queen wasn't that daft and ignorant of politics.

That's why I said this.

[Maester Pedant]

But cersei is pretty stupid (seeing that extensively while reading AFFC) so I believe that Varys counciling her on it would have made sense.

I think you're being too hard on her. When we get her POV, she has gone through losing her son, her father, and has been thrust into a position of virtually absolute power. That's why she loses her grip on reality. It doesn't mean that she was stupid BEFORE all those events, and that she couldn't recognise what as best for her and her family.

An example of Cersei not being stupid before AFFC. During the riot in ACoK, she actually supports Tyrion's authority when he is giving orders to the Kingsguard. She does that in spite of her obvious rivalry and even hatred of Tyrion, because she understands that in that situation, something has to be done and Tyrion is making the right decisions. Plus, she understands that she cannot publicly undermine the Hand of the King's authority (who is also a member of House Lannister) without putting at risk her own standing.

[King Tyrion I]

I think you're being too hard on her. When we get her POV, she has gone through losing her son, her father, and has been thrust into a position of virtually absolute power. That's why she loses her grip on reality. It doesn't mean that she was stupid BEFORE all those events, and that she couldn't recognise what as best for her and her family.

An example of Cersei not being stupid before AFFC. During the riot in ACoK, she actually supports Tyrion's authority when he is giving orders to the Kingsguard. She does that in spite of her obvious rivalry and even hatred of Tyrion, because she understands that in that situation, something has to be done and Tyrion is making the right decisions. Plus, she understands that she cannot publicly undermine the Hand of the King's authority (who is also a member of House Lannister) without putting at risk her own standing.

:agree:

I couldn't said that and summarized it better than you did.

[LROSyke]

Ned sure would have been a lot more useful alive.

Imagine if he did take the black, how things might have been different.

[Roose Seal]

My theory is that Cersei's plan was to have Ned take the black and let him have an "accident" on his way up north via Jaqen.

Cersei hires Jaqen. Passes him off as a prisoner in the black cells, where Ned is. Allows Ned to take the black, trading him for Jaime. Yoren takes Ned and all his recruits (including Jaqen). On his way up north Ned has an "accident" and dies. Ned is effectively out of the way but it can't be traced back to her.

This was her design.

However, Joffrey happened.

There's about zero evidence for this, but I like it.

[Rinso]

Nobody wanted Ned dead. They all knew that his execution would almost 100 % certainly mean a revolt from the North, and given that they were worried about Stannis and Renly, they knew that they sure didn't need that complication.

Ned was supposed to take the black. But then Joff just went "Fuck it, I'm king and I'm gonna do whatever I want!" and the whole thing fell apart. If one rereads the scene (or even rewatches the scene in the TV show), it's clear that everyone - Cersei included - was in shock and tried to speak up and change Joffrey's mind, but he just wasn't going to listen.