of man and wolf Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Jamie is cursed ever since he broke guest right in Winterfell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Ryman Frey was the heir to the Twins, thus that is better then anything the rest of the North has been able to do. I doubt trials by combat are needed in every case thus she didn't deny him anything. Though I am sure Beric would have gotten off by killing him with his flaming sword and calling that a fair trial. And now someone who might be somewhat competent stands to inherit the Twins, in a way she did the Freys a favor by killing Ryman. Everyone is supposed to have the right to trial by combat, she doesn't give it to them. Even by Westerosi standards the Brotherhood's way of doing things under Stoneheart is a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 And now someone who might be somewhat competent stands to inherit the Twins, in a way she did the Freys a favor by killing Ryman. Everyone is supposed to have the right to trial by combat, she doesn't give it to them. Even by Westerosi standards the Brotherhood's way of doing things under Stoneheart is a joke. Ned didn't give Gared the option of Trial by Combat, Jon didn't give Slynt the option of Trial by Combat, Stannis doesn't give Alister Florent the option of Trial by Combat, heck when Beric captures a number of Brave Companions he likely didn't give them the option of Trial by Combat (seeing how they are all executed without Beric fighting them all). Thus, there is no proof there is an absolute right to Trial by Combat. Moreover, Trial by Combat is an absolute joke with UnCat's methods of using actual evidence/admissions being much more fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Antony Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 LS trial was way more fair than Berics. That bein said I Hope she hangs the lot of them well especially Jaime. Please just hang him no nonsense :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalais Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 I want Jamie to be brought before Lady Stoneheart, discover that Brienne died and was brought back to life, then do some fast talking to save himself. He'll convince LS that he can deliver to her the bulk of the Freys and outline a plan on the fly. Then when the Freys are celebrating 'the end of the war', Jamie will arrive with his bannermen (actually the Brotherhood Without Banners), and make a big show of having 'captured' Lady Stoneheart and present her to the Late Lord Frey. And then she reveals herself by lowering her hood, and the signal for attack is given by LS revealing a hidden dagger and stabbing Lord Frey in the chest. After that the BwB's put as many Freys and their soldiers as possible to the sword and burn the Twins down to the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 LS trial was way more fair than Berics. That bein said I Hope she hangs the lot of them well especially Jaime. Please just hang him no nonsense :D I don't want to actually hang Brienne and Pod though Jaime is fair game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Ned didn't give Gared the option of Trial by Combat, Jon didn't give Slynt the option of Trial by Combat, heck when Beric captures a number of Brave Companions he likely didn't give them the option of Trial by Combat (seeing how they are all executed without Beric fighting them all). Thus, there is no proof there is an absolute right to Trial by Combat. Moreover, Trial by Combat is an absolute joke with UnCat's methods of using actual evidence/admissions being much more fair. Gared and Janos don't even get trials, they are just executed. Lady Stoneheart is supposedly giving these men trials. What evidence? They ask her if she wants to hang them, they beg for mercy, she hangs them. The only evidence she needs is association with the Lannisters, Freys, or Boltons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Antony Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 I don't want to actually hang Brienne and Pod though Jaime is fair game.I'm fine with her letting Brienne live as long as she delivers the Kingslayer without any hiccups :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicer Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 I'm fine with her letting Brienne live as long as she delivers the Kingslayer without any hiccups :devil: Agree. I hope Brienne does not end up reneging on her oaths to Cat for scumbag Jaime. I hope LS cuts off Jaime's remaining hand and then uses him to retake RR in the RW 2.0 before hanging him and then returning to peace. We don't see eye to eye on much, but on this I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errant Bard Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 it was wise to deny him his right to trial by combat.You are bringing that up as if it was a right, but also as if it was a just and fair way to judge someone, but it's neither. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacon Dragon the Crispy Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 The only way Jamie lives, IMO, is if he can deliver some dead Freys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Wedding Cake Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Judges and Juries dont usually want trial by combat. If it isn't offered, the accused must demand it. I don't believe it's ever been refused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Gared and Janos don't even get trials, they are just executed. Lady Stoneheart is supposedly giving these men trials.What evidence? They ask her if she wants to hang them, they beg for mercy, she hangs them. The only evidence she needs is association with the Lannisters, Freys, or Boltons. So I guess Ned and Jon are even worse then Lady Stoneheart with their justice. For the Freys she acts as an eye witness to the atrocities they committed/facilitated at the Red Wedding. For Brienne they present the evidence of her papers from Tommen, Lannister gold, Lannister Valyrian Sword, Lannister Squire, and her moaning of Jaime's name to demonstrate their argument that he has turned cloak to side with the Lannisters despite her vows to Catelyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faint Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 I do not have any particular desire to see this situation resolved one way or another, but I continue to think the Brienne-as-a-hostage-to-compel-Jaime angle is the most likely scenario based on the reasonable assumptions we can make about the situation. Assumption #1: Jaime is still alive. This is pretty self-explanatory just going by narrative conventions, but even beyond that, Jaime is obviously going to see Cersei again (the foreshadowing for which is too voluminous to list here). Assumption #2: Jaime is still alive, as justified in-story, because Catelyn needs him for something, otherwise, he would already be dead. There is not even a need to prove his guilt, as he has already confessed to Catelyn many of his crimes, while others were heard directly by Tom O'Sevens and Brienne. Assumption #3: Catelyn doesn't need Jaime to compel Brienne since Catelyn already has the other hostages, which have already been used to do precisely that. And, what's more, because of who Jaime is, he can uniquely accomplish many things which are not possible for Brienne, which goes back to the second assumption. Assumption #4: Whatever it is that Catelyn wants, it is quite unlikely that Jaime will share that desire because their interests do not align; and even if he did, because of previous events (and his deserved reputation), there is no manner in which Catelyn can simply trust Jaime. Assumption #5: The only way Catelyn can compel Jaime to do what she wants, and trust that he will do it, is to blackmail him using something of value to him. The only such thing she possesses is Brienne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoulder of Pallas Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Ned didn't give Gared the option of Trial by Combat, Jon didn't give Slynt the option of Trial by Combat, Stannis doesn't give Alister Florent the option of Trial by Combat, heck when Beric captures a number of Brave Companions he likely didn't give them the option of Trial by Combat (seeing how they are all executed without Beric fighting them all). Thus, there is no proof there is an absolute right to Trial by Combat. Moreover, Trial by Combat is an absolute joke with UnCat's methods of using actual evidence/admissions being much more fair. According to "The Mystery Knight," trial by combat is a right afforded only to nobility.No members of the Brave Companions are nobility, unless my memory is incorrect.Gared and Janos Slynt are both members of the Night's Watch and thus aren't subject to that right, as they hold no titles. Yes, Stannis doesn't give Allister Florent Trial-by-Combat, almost as though he's a little unjust, or something, what with burning people alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Aren't we assuming that Brienne and Jaime will travel silently? Brienne is a lot of good things but she's a terrible liar and her feelings betray her. Jaime is going to realise there is something wrong long before they got to the Brotherhood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mother of The Others Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 this get-together will result in rambunctious, complicated love Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errant Bard Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 According to "The Mystery Knight," trial by combat is a right afforded only to nobility.Yet Dunk was given such a trial in the Hedge Knight. All the members of the BwB have been knighted, also. Yes, Stannis doesn't give Allister Florent Trial-by-Combat, almost as though he's a little unjust, or something, what with burning people alive.Oh, right, executing someone based on evidence without leaving him a way to kill one of your men and leave scot-free because he knows his way around a sword is totally unjust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 I want Jaime the scumbag to be executed on the spot, he deserves it. But his plot armor is too strong, unfortunately, I expect another dumb twist to get him out somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan the Man Baratheon Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Some one should get rid of the abomination called LS. Brienne is capable to do it, and that too with a Stark sword. :drool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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