Book vs. Show Characters: Better, Worse, Mixed, or just Different?

[belladeuil]

The TV Series just ruined Jaime Lannister.

Season 1, Episode 5: Jaime Lannister is regarded in the books as one of the best swordsman in Westeros but in the Lion and the Wolf, the producers intended that he would lose the sword fight against Ned Stark. A fight scene was a good idea but if you are going to do it, do it well and reflect the actual skills of the persons involved. :bang:

Season 2, Episode 1: The direwolf scene. Enough said. :angry:

Season 2: Kinslaying. Enough said. :bang:

Season 3, Episode 3: Having him cry BEFORE his arm was maimed. :bang:

Season 3, Episode 9: Change from 'Jaime Lannister sends his regards' to 'the Lannisters send their regards'. :angry:

Season 4, Episode 1: Downplay his achievements.

Season 4, Episode 2: Having him lose to pretty boy Sir Loras in a verbal contest. :angry:

Season 4, Episode 3: Having him rape his sister beside their son's corpse. By then, I felt the rape scene was completely in tune with where the TV series was taking his character. He was not an excellent swordsman, he was a coward, a kinslayer, a crybaby, heck, just make him a rapist too. :tantrum:

[Frey Pies]

They didn't ruin him. He did the same thing in the book. Cersei was telling him to get off, but he didn't- he was relying on her lust winning out when he started. Plus, he was doing it while she was on her period, showing how self-centred he was during that scene. I personally feel this should be treated as one last moment of weakness for both show and book Jaime which finally gets rid of his weird trance when around Cersei, and truly sets about redeeming himself.

It was rape in both the show as well as the books, and didn't ruin much.

[marsyao]

TV show does not do Loras justice, it focus too much on his sexuality and makes him like a very unmature boy, the fact that he is also a awesome warrior is largely missing in the show

[Ser Desmond Wine's Bane]

TV show does not do Loras justice, it focus too much on his sexuality and makes him like a very unmature boy, the fact that he is also a awesome warrior is largely missing in the show

Show Loras beat the Mountain by cheating then lost to a 'girl'... and has since been nothing but a prop for Olenna to run down his entire gender. They might as well just appoint him the new fool now Dontos is gone.

[Travy1991]

1) Better in the show than in the books

• Tywin Lannister: Charles Dance kills it everytime. He has such impressive gravitas and I like how the show has given us more dimensions and a softness to him that isn't in the books.
• Margaery Tyrell: This one goes without saying really. We barely know Margaery in the books or what her game is. Natalie Dormer has done a fantastic job. I believe her Margaery is someone who really wants to be queen but does want to be one so she can make things better for the people of the Seven Kingdoms.
• Cersei Lannister: The showrunners have tried to make her less despicable but I still find Lena Headey's Cersei to be a messed-up, complicated person who manages to bring out the sadder elements of Book Cersei.
• Joffrey "Baratheon": Jack Gleeson was excellent in this role. I was rewatching "Blackwater" the other day and was impressed with how he made Joffrey briefly sympathetic in his fear of going out on the battlefield and trying to find the best excuse he could to run off while still seeming somewhat sorry that he's such a coward.
• Samwell Tarly: Sam in the books annoyed me quite a bit, probably because I grew quite tired of his insecure internal monologues and his blatant cowardice. John Bradley did a great job making Sam endearing and believable when he could have played that role over-the-top and a constant pain in the other characters' side.
• Varys: I think Conleth Hill is amazing as Varys. A character who I find sort of creepy in the text on the show comes across as a more in-depth and sympathetic character.
• Balon Greyjoy: Patrick Malahide is doing great work in that role. In the books, I wanted Balon to die since his first introduction whereas in the show, I'm intrigued by him.

2) Worse in the show than in the books

• Robb, Jeyne Talisa and Catelyn Stark: I don't believe that these characters have been butchered and the actors do a good job with the material, particularly Michelle Fairley but I don't like how they've done their storyline. Sidelining Cat as a grieving widow and mother while making Robb make stupid decision after stupid decision did the characters no real favours. I know Cat spends most of Books 2 and 3 grieving and that Robb makes stupid decisions in the book too so I don't think it's absolute butchery but their characters had become simplified and lacking in complexity. I like what Talisa stands for within a modern context but she doesn't fit into the world of the show particularly with her sassing the king, anti-war stance and marry for love instead of political gain.
• Petyr Baelish: Aidan Gillen seriously needs to see a dialect coach and learn how to nail a consistent accent. His accent in the show is maddeningly bad, he sucks at accents full stop (see his "American" accent in The Dark Knight Rises too). That aside though, he is a strong enough performer even though can't quite seem to slip out of slimeball roles which has dulled Littlefinger's character as a result. Who would trust TV Littlefinger, seriously?
• Asha Yara Greyjoy*: I think she fits in well with how the show portrays the ironborn and I think Gemma Whelan has been all right but I haven't really found her as charismatic as Asha is in the books just yet. But we haven't seen enough of her so this may come off my list once we spend more time with her.
• Stannis Baratheon: I don't understand the hero worship for Stannis in some corners of book fandom. I think Stannis is more villain than hero in the story considering how he was involved in the killing of his own brother. I think the writers have conflicting ideas on Stannis (Dan Weiss thinks he's a fanatic while David Benioff is more in line with book readers in that he's pragmatic). Either way, they really haven't given us enough of Stannis to judge him. He feels ancillary and a second-thought for the show. He needs more development and a longer presence in the season.
• Shae: They initially were going in an interesting direction with the character until she became a petulant, idiotic pain-in-the-backside.

3) Basically unchanged between the show and the books

• Ned Stark: Older and not long faced but pretty much the same.
• Viserys Targaryen: Pretty much identical to how I see Book Viserys, barring the purple eyes.
• Robert Baratheon: Older and not as tall but pretty much the same.
• Drogo: Did a fantastic job at portraying the character as in the books.
• Theon Greyjoy: Doesn't have black hair but his character arc has consistently played out the same. Alfie Allen has done a great job in highlighting all aspects of Theon/Reek.
• Olenna Tyrell: Pretty much identical.
• The Stark children: Fantastic casting all round even if they physically may be different.
• Ygritte: Rose Leslie is maybe prettier than the Ygritte described in the books.
• Daenerys Targaryen: Although Dany's storyline has changed in places, Emilia Clarke still plays the compassionate, occasionally badass, occasionally entitled and naive Dany that we see in the books. She's just a little older than 13.
• Jon Snow: I don't necessarily understand how people think Kit Harrington is ruining the character. As an actor, he doesn't have a huge amount of range but in my opinion, Jon Snow doesn't become interesting until the latter half of A Storm of Swords and Season 4 seems to be reflecting that. In the first two books particularly, Jon is the stereotype of Male Fantasy Hero. He's a wangsty, entitled bastard who is handsome, strong and a great warrior with a compassionate heart and nearly everyone loves him (and the people who don't are jealous/bitter assholes) even though he's such an outcast. Add a mysterious past, named magical sword, a giant albino direwolf and his ability to rise through the ranks of a prestigious order in less than two years and you have a character that wouldn't seem out of place in a teenage girl's fanfiction.net profile.

4) A mix of good and bad changes, hard to separate out

• Tormund Giantsbane*: I think Kristofer Hivju is charismatic with an awesome voice and presence but I do miss his humour . It's still not too late though.
• Tyrion Lannister: I dislike how they made Tyrion the patron saint of Westeros but I do like Peter Dinklage's performance.

5) Completely different in the show and in the books

• Shae
• Talisa Stark (née Maegyr)

* Means that there's still hope for these characters

[Jairion Lannister]

1. Better in the show than in the books

Tywin Lannister: Superb performance from the actor and by adding a number of scenes, the character gets more depth. He's still Tywin, but he doesn't feel quite as evil but is still menacing and ruthless. His scene with Joffrey in S3 was great, while his scenes with Arya were also very good and some of them have been among the shows best deviations.

2. Worse in the show than in the books

Stannis Baratheon: I actually quite like him in the show since I enjoy the adaption and don't complain about it too much, but they've messed some stuff up with him. He was fine in S2 and arguably better because they expanded on his scenes and gave him a more central role in the battle, but he became too much of a puppet of Melisandre in S3 and I didn't like him burning the Florent for religion and not betrayal. He's lingering at the moment because they can't move him on yet, but hopefully he'll improve soon. I think the actor is perfect as well.

3. Basically unchanged between the show and the books

Eddard Stark: Character wise, he's pretty much still the same guy. They changed his ability with a sword, but apart from that he was very similar because the deviations in S1 tended to be very small. Sean Bean nailed the part with a script that was largely similar to what they already had for the book.

4. A mix of good and bad changes

Jaime Lannister: Brilliant in the early seasons and I thought his whole speech about killing Aerys was actually better in the show than in the book, but that scene in the last episode really set him back quite a bit unfortunately, although they'll recover from it.

5. Completely different in the show and in the books

Talisa/Jeyne: Completely different character with the only similarity being that she marries Robb which breaks his Frey alliance. While there are problems which take away from Robb's storyline, Talisa at least has some sort of character, even if it's unrealistic, whereas his wife in the books is essentially just used as a plot point. Not that it was a good change, but they at least tried to add to the character by giving her more depth.

[marsyao]

Show Loras beat the Mountain by cheating then lost to a 'girl'... and has since been nothing but a prop for Olenna to run down his entire gender. They might as well just appoint him the new fool now Dontos is gone.

I wish they add these scenes into the TV show:

1) Loras went mad after the death of Renly, in his furies he cut down three Renly's rainbow guards

2) Loras secrectly burried Renly, and refused to tell anyone the burried place

3) His conversation with Jamie, when Jamie told him that he has a lot to learn, because he did not have the luck like Jamie himself to learn from such a famous Knights like morning of dawn and white bull. Loras calmly reply "all of these men you mentioned are dead".

[Red Tiger]

• Olenna Tyrell: Pretty much identical.

I have to disagree with this. In the books she is a snarker was well, but more biting and vindictive. She's more of a cool and often sympathetic granny in the show version, with some killer lines (no pun intended). She really got on my nerves in the books, but the show version is awesome.

[belladeuil]

They didn't ruin him. He did the same thing in the book. Cersei was telling him to get off, but he didn't- he was relying on her lust winning out when he started. Plus, he was doing it while she was on her period, showing how self-centred he was during that scene. I personally feel this should be treated as one last moment of weakness for both show and book Jaime which finally gets rid of his weird trance when around Cersei, and truly sets about redeeming himself.

It was rape in both the show as well as the books, and didn't ruin much.

It was not rape in A Storm of Swords but it was in Game of Thrones. The scene was done differently in Game of Thrones than it was written in the book. Game of Thrones as whole ruined Jaime Lannister's character and the rape scene was simply in accordance with where they were taking him. Kindly read beyond the first line before replying.

I have to disagree with this. In the books she is a snarker was well, but more biting and vindictive. She's more of a cool and often sympathetic granny in the show version, with some killer lines (no pun intended). She really got on my nerves in the books, but the show version is awesome.

Agreed.

In A Song of Ice and Fire, Lady Olenna was biting, vindictive and annoying, pretending to be far frailer than she actually was.

In Game of Thrones, Lady Olenna was bold and upfront and seemed to be happy to let people know she still has life in her.

[Red Raven]

The TV Series just ruined Jaime Lannister.

I was annoyed by Stannis being worse on the show but that's nothing compared to what they just did to Jaime. All that goodwill he built up last season in the baths and rescuing Brienne in some of the best and most heartfelt scenes - gone.

I get that the show is not the books but in this case, fuck the show.

[Daske]

Edit: Sorry, realised was off-topic.

[Le Cygne]

<snip>

Just to add to that, they had him skewer Jory. In the books he rode off. Then when they made him a kinslayer, they said it was because people thought he was charming and forgot how he killed Jory.

[Alysanne Snow]

1) Better in the show than in the books (where "better" doesn't mean "nicer", but rather "More developed" or "More interesting" or "Even more like themselves than I imagined")

My choice: Margaery Tyrell and the Queen of Thorns. I honestly think the story is better for having them there and that Cersei's storyline in particular needs at least one of them to be developed enough to act as a proper foil. Cersei's general incompetence and powerlessness really, really bothered me in the books (and not for the reasons she was supposed to) and I suspect it would have read much better had there been other well-developed, ambitious female characters who had some idea how to play the "game".

2) Worse in the show than in the books (where "worse" is "flatter", "less interesting", and so on, not "meaner")

My choice: Loras. While he wasn't a major character in the books, he was interesting in a way he simply isn't in the TV show. In the show, his whole persona seems to revolve around being Renly's gay lover, where in the book he was a highly skilled fighter and wildly popular knight who just happened to be gay.

3) Basically unchanged between the show and the books

My choice: Of the major characters, Bran. Other than his age, he's more or less exactly how I pictured him in the books. But on the whole I think the show is fairly well cast.

4) A mix of good and bad changes, hard to separate out

My choice: Cersei. Up until this season, I've really, really liked most of the changes. She's actually mildly competent (coming up with the wildfire idea herself) and it's hard not to feel empathy for her love of her children, but she's still a pretty horrible human being and one of the grayer characters in the show. She also seems to work better within the overall context of the show and I like getting some complexity from her. However, she also loses a lot of her agency (as has been discussed at length) and her relationship with Jaime is getting...odd to say the least, even for them.

Catelyn. I actually really, really like that they downplayed her dislike for Jon Snow. Jon's so sympathetic and it comes out so early in the book that it seems like a lot of my fellow reader friends were never quite able to forgive her for it. I didn't mind the idea in theory, but I don't think it's the most interesting or important aspect of her character and don't think that's what GRRM intended. It'd be nice to be able to discuss her with some IRL friends without it devolving to "but she never loved Jon". I hated, however, that her relationship with Robb was neglected in favor of developing his romance with the less interesting Talisa as I did really like seeing her interact with her only remaining child and how her influence reflected that he was still just a kid, despite being King in the North (although they did age him up a lot for the show, which probably played a role).

5) Completely different in the show and in the books

My choice: Shae is Shae in name only. Which I actually wouldn't have objected to them had it been much better thought out than it was so that the ending actually made sense for the TV characters. I don't think they will change Shae's ending, but character-wise while I see how they're selling it, I'm not buying it. It could have been better handled.

[Miekix Daphigar]

I'm okay with how most characters are portrayed, but the way they made Shae makes me just so angry. They ruined that character for me.

[Velociraptor]

1) Better in the show than in the books (where "better" doesn't mean "nicer", but rather "More developed" or "More interesting" or "Even more like themselves than I imagined")

Tywin. The extra development they gave him was great. Good thing about the show is that we get to see Tywin interacting with more people and thus, see him from different angles. In the book we mainly saw him through the eyes of Tyrion, who is more than a little biased towards Tywin (understandably).

Also, season 2 Stannis. Really loved how he's portrayed as a fearless man on the battlefield. First off the boat, first up the ladder- now that's how a man should lead, that's a king I can get behind. Unfortunately, he got completely butchered in Season 4. So far anyway.

Robert Baratheon as well. He barely had any scenes in the books, while in the show he was much more memorable and felt more complex.

I also loved the show's portrayal of Beric and Thoros. Both for me were more memorable than they were in the books.

2) Worse in the show than in the books (where "worse" is "flatter", "less interesting", and so on, not "meaner")

Season 3 and 4 Stannis. Not sure what happened with the writers, he was a great character and now they pose him as some sort of loser who sits around waiting for others to do stuff for him. And burning someone because of faith? That ain't Stannis. I find it harder and harder to find ANY sympathy for him, where once there was plenty. I really hope they redeem him later in the season.

Also, Littlefinger. They straight up went and made him into a villain.

3) Basically unchanged between the show and the books

Ned Stark, Varys, Theon Greyjoy, Viserys, The Hound. Cersei. Walder Frey. Maester Aemon. Bronn is a curious example, he seems a little different, but then again, maybe it's simply because he has more screentime and more lines (which is great). Other than that, seems largely the same.

4) A mix of good and bad changes, hard to separate out

Joffrey. It seemed as though he had a charming side in the books and was sinister underneath it, but it kept coming out more and more as it went on. While in the show he was just straight up a tiny monster whenever he was not with Margaery (and even then his sinister sneer shone through). I don't know, though, I loved his portrayal in the show nonetheless, so it's hard to seperate out.

Roose Bolton. Seems somewhat more human and likable in the show, but I really loved the way books described him too. While the actor provides a stellar peformance, I don't quite get the chilly terrifying vibe from him that Roose gave off in the books.

5) Completely different in the show and in the books

Daario Naharis. They might as well have renamed him altogether. Either of them.

Shae, obviously.

And Talisa. Not complaining about her character changes, I don't find either version superior and the book one was developed far more, but still, it's a different character altogether, so it goes here.

[HairGrowsBack]

Show Loras beat the Mountain by cheating then lost to a 'girl'... and has since been nothing but a prop for Olenna to run down his entire gender. They might as well just appoint him the new fool now Dontos is gone.

Well to be fair it basically goes down the same way in the books.

[Ser Desmond Wine's Bane]

Well to be fair it basically goes down the same way in the books.

Yep I realise that, but the books do also establish that Loras does actually have ability. The show doesn't.

[Crimson King]

I'm surprised by so many mentions of Ned as 'unchanged'. I love him in both show and book, but the absence of any references to the tower of love on the show is ridiculous, imo.

[Rill Redthorn]

I'm surprised by so many mentions of Ned as 'unchanged'. I love him in both show and book, but the absence of any references to the tower of love on the show is ridiculous, imo.

You mean the Tower of Joy? They've stripped almost all the history/backstory out of the show so far, so it's not just Ned who suffered from this. I don't think that changed Ned's character in any significant way, though. At least not on the level of giving Littlefinger all the subtlety of a Bond villain or making Cersei a woobie.

Of course they're going to have to start putting some of that history back in at some point now that Oberyn's here, and I'm looking forward to it myself.

[Steve Stark]

Not entirely sure why, but show Cat bothered me, even though I think Michelle Fairley is a wonderful actress.

Charles Dance plays Tywin brilliantly. I enjoyed the show's rendition of Bronn as well and his relationship with Tyrion.

I do find it irrititating that they white-washed a few characters more than I would have preferred. Dany, Cersei, and Tyrion come to mind. Love the actors and everything, love the sets, props and the clothing. Very authentic and incredible, honestly. But still...they made all three of these characters too..."likeable"? Not sure how to put it, but it felt like the show attempted to put a glamour on these three individuals and hid some of their more evil/negative attributes.

I thought they did pretty damn good with Khal Drogo though, as short lived as that was. And Viserys....I pretty much hated that guy just like I did in the books. Overall well done.