Amazing Spider-man 2 [SPOILERS]

[red snow]

Watched it yesterday. Rather than have a minefield of spoiler tags I thought I'd just but it in a spoiler thread - the trailer thread still exists for non-spoilers.

Overall, it's a good film and could have actually been great for some tonal issues.

The main thing is that there aren't too many villains at all. We wasted far too much time worrying about that. They appear sequentially for the most part - electro is the SFX main antagonist but we also get a goblin origin and he feels most like the series villain. The Rhino is barely in it at all (think Matthew Mcognaughey in Wolf on wall street) and I'm certain all of his footage has been seen in previews - which is a disappointment but I think we'll see him again.

There's a lot about his Parker's parents maybe too much but it at least explains why Parker is "special".

cast.

Jaime Foxx - I don't know why he signed onto this. The character is probably the cheesiest since Schwarzenegger's Dr Freeze. It's not Foxx's fault as the characterisation is simply cartoon like. Visually they have trouble deciding whether he's Emperor Palpatine or Dr Manhattan and I'm sure I won't be the only one irked with how he can rematerialise with different rubber suits and (still functioning) electronic devices.

Harry Osborn/Dane dehaan on the otther hand is great but the writers make him less of a cartoon and the actor treats it as such making his origin satisfying. You tend to think that Parker is being unreasonable.

Rhino/Giamatti is hardly in it but where he is he tends to fall into the cartoon idiot category - this really doesn't bode well for the sinister six film unless they go the comedy route.

Garfield and stone are excellentt again. Parker is very cocky again but the ending suggests there is an arc to all this though.

Every scene with Emma Stone and Garfield is great. Sparks fly. I thought the take on the relationship this time was pretty well done. It was essentially the on/off again that these films usually have but felt more realistic. The big shock is that they actually go through with the Gwen Stacy death from the comics. It's even more explicit that Spidey's web breaks her back in this one (although the floor would have done the same). This is where the film is a bit tricky as it is such a tonal shift that you keep expecting her to cough and recover but she doesn't. It's harsh and given how Spidey promised her dad to stay away it really is his responsibility. This should be interesting for the next film.

The SFX are very solid. It sometimes feels a bit too much like a computer game but I like how Webb uses the CGI to get otherwise impossible rotating camera angles.

Ultimately the extreme swings in tone stop this from being a great film. You have characters that shouldn't exist in the same world (it's like mixing Batman and Robin's characters with Nolan's) and there are goofy moments (that kid walking into the street with Rhino would never happen) which when placed alongside Parker/Gwen's relationship, Harry's struggles and Gwen' s death are simply too jarring. I get the impression a producer has told the writers to make ASM2 a bit more like the Raimi films (because they were more successful) as the first film was pretty smooth in tone and the result is a mess. Which is a shame because the film would have been great otherwise.

[john]

Ack, I was hoping they wouldn't kill her off just because they're never going to get as good a lead female unless they somehow got Jennifer Lawrence.

[ljkeane]

I thought it was a bit meh to be honest. The villain was fairly rubbish, the parts with Garfield and Stone were reasonable but I thought the point that Peter would be upset if he lost Gwen was fairly crudely hammered home and I thought the cgi was a bit cartoony. Also why did his Dad have a secret underground lair?

[red snow]

Ack, I was hoping they wouldn't kill her off just because they're never going to get as good a lead female unless they somehow got Jennifer Lawrence.

That's why I kept thinking she'd survive. It felt like the build-up to the death wasn't there. It suggests the next film won't have a love interest though as it would betray the relationship and show Peter to be utterly irresponsible. Although I read a good argument for Black Cat (her alias was probably in this film) as she is only interested in Spidey.

I thought it was a bit meh to be honest. The villain was fairly rubbish, the parts with Garfield and Stone were reasonable but I thought the point that Peter would be upset if he lost Gwen was fairly crudely hammered home and I thought the cgi was a bit cartoony. Also why did his Dad have a secret underground lair?

The underground lair was definitely part of the cartoon aspects I disliked in the film (unless the whole film had been cartoony)

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Rhino/Giamatti is hardly in it but where he is he tends to fall into the cartoon idiot category - this really doesn't bode well for the sinister six film unless they go the comedy route.

As it should be. The Rhino is an idiot. He's the "special" member of the Sinister Six, manipulated, used, and made fun of by the other members of the group.

[red snow]

As it should be. The Rhino is an idiot. He's the "special" member of the Sinister Six, manipulated, used, and made fun of by the other members of the group.

That's true but Giamatti had it dialled up to 11. This wasn't even Sandman stupid from Spidey 3. It wouldn't be a problem if that's what every character was like but it isn't the case.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

That's true but Giamatti had it dialled up to 11. This wasn't even Sandman stupid from Spidey 3. It wouldn't be a problem if that's what every character was like but it isn't the case.

To be fair, outside of Doc Ock and maybe The Vulture, none of the Sinister Six is terribly smart. Sandman is basically a street thug with super-powers, Electro was a Con Ed lineman, Kraven an obessed big game hunter, and Rhino a thug in polymer armor.

It's kind of their achilles heel, really. If the majority of them weren't mental midgets, Spidey wouldn't have much of a chance of defeating them.

[red snow]

To be fair, outside of Doc Ock and maybe The Vulture, none of the Sinister Six is terribly smart. Sandman is basically a street thug with super-powers, Electro was a Con Ed lineman, Kraven an obessed big game hunter, and Rhino a thug in polymer armor.

It's kind of their achilles heel, really. If the majority of them weren't mental midgets, Spidey wouldn't have much of a chance of defeating them.

My problem isn't with them being stupid it's in their stupid portrayal. Cartoons like Spectacular Spider-man had an idiotic Rhino but they handled him far better than they have here. Rhino and Electro were Joel Schumacher bad pastiches. Raimi had a similar approach but he made it work better in that they weren't quite so 1 dimensional and that he reined in the actors from being too OTT. I don't know Raimi felt like he was doing things in the spirit of the comics whereas Schumacher and Webb's Electro (mainly) and Rhino (in part) feel more like they are mocking the source material. The added problem with this film is the mixture in characters, they treat Harry Osborn fairly seriously - the same with Peter, Gwen and his parents.

[Galactus]

I really liked the fridging. (honestly, as far as comic books goes it's pretty much THE fridging, although the term comes from Kyle Rayner's GF) they did tricked me just enough in that "Maybe they're not going to do it..." kind of way. The guys in the back row totally thought she was going to live, and it's one of those things where "movie magic" makes you think it'd be survivable, and then you think "Oh wait, her neck'd snap if that happened." Kudos, really.

Too bad though as they had great chemistry.

I liked Rhino's design honestly, and I don't mind him being a caricature. Electro was pretty unremarkable though, and they did managa to make Harry relatively sympatethic and an incredible douche at the same time.

On Electro's changing face: Seems to me it was due to how much power he had. If he was on limited juice he was all dried up and funky, while if he was energized he was all glowy and smooth.

Overall I liked it, moreso than the first movie. (who I still respect for pretty much one really good scene) at least it had some colour and wasn't just people fumbling around in the dark.

[red snow]

I really liked the fridging. (honestly, as far as comic books goes it's pretty much THE fridging, although the term comes from Kyle Rayner's GF) they did tricked me just enough in that "Maybe they're not going to do it..." kind of way. The guys in the back row totally thought she was going to live, and it's one of those things where "movie magic" makes you think it'd be survivable, and then you think "Oh wait, her neck'd snap if that happened." Kudos, really.

I think it was because of the serious and playful tones that even had me thinking "they won't go there". I do like how in the movie version there's no doubt whatsoever that he broke her back. In the comics I think they may have even retconned it with some story saying her back was already broken and the snap was of no consequence (then again in the comics Norman Osborn got Gwen pregnant with spider babies???). The chemistry between the actors definitely gave the scene a lot more weight. I'm annoyed they didn't show Peter's reaction to the Goblin though. They missed out on a great opportunity to show us that Spidey never kills as surely this is the one time most of us would forgive him. Instead it just skips it.

[Galactus]

I think it was because of the serious and playful tones that even had me thinking "they won't go there". I do like how in the movie version there's no doubt whatsoever that he broke her back. In the comics I think they may have even retconned it with some story saying her back was already broken and the snap was of no consequence (then again in the comics Norman Osborn got Gwen pregnant with spider babies???). The chemistry between the actors definitely gave the scene a lot more weight. I'm annoyed they didn't show Peter's reaction to the Goblin though. They missed out on a great opportunity to show us that Spidey never kills as surely this is the one time most of us would forgive him. Instead it just skips it.

Overall they seemed to have him kill way too casually, just blowing Electro up like that, without him even giving an off-hand mention that y'know, Max was a person.

[RedEyedGhost]

I see that Felicity Jones is credited as "Felicia" on imdb, does she do any Black Cat stuff? Or is she there as a cameo for future movies?

[red snow]

Overall they seemed to have him kill way too casually, just blowing Electro up like that, without him even giving an off-hand mention that y'know, Max was a person.

I was so comfortable in the knowledge Electro will just reform back into a solid ball of electric (with rubber fittings) that I didn't even register that as a kill. Maybe Spidey is already jaded about such things? If he did kill Electro without a thought then it makes the lack of a post Gwen confrontation with Osborn even more of a glaring omission.

[red snow]

I see that Felicity Jones is credited as "Felicia" on imdb, does she do any Black Cat stuff? Or is she there as a cameo for future movies?

She does nothing and there's no suggestion at all she's Black cat at this stage or even has "Hardy" as a surname. I guess she'll be in a film at some point though as she's one of the few allies of Spidey that could be spun off into a film. Although it may seem a bit redundant with Catwoman.

[The BlackBear]

It was alright, was surprised the Rhino (which was in all the trailers) barely appeared. Goblin was pretty shit, and Electro's motivations didn't work for me. Also Electro seems more to fight with the power of dubstep...

[Corvinus85]

I liked it far more than I expected. I am glad that they didn't shy away from the dramatic moment. I didn't like Electro much, but I kinda liked the Green Goblin, and Paul Giamatti was funny, if barely recognizable.

One thing that bothered me: in the previews they showed a conversation between Peter and Harry Osborn where Harry shows Peter that Oscorp had him under surveillance. For some reason, that didn't make the final cut, or I just blinked too much.

[RedEyedGhost]

She does nothing and there's no suggestion at all she's Black cat at this stage or even has "Hardy" as a surname. I guess she'll be in a film at some point though as she's one of the few allies of Spidey that could be spun off into a film. Although it may seem a bit redundant with Catwoman.

That's too bad. She has to be the Black Cat though. No way they name a character Felicia who isn't the Black Cat. I don't think Marvel cares about being redundant with DC, especially when they can do it so much better. I'm looking forward to seeing it this weekend.

[ants]

From the old thread:

Well, I saw it last night. Overall, I found it pretty average. I'm not a huge fan of the spiderman movies (any of them so far), and never followed the cartoons or comics. It just felt to me like a normal action movie, with the main character having a lot of angst. He was better when in costume, but not great out of it. I was probably more interested in the bad guys and watching their story evolve, but as actual opponents the battles just seemed a little silly and contrived. Happy to have seen it, but wouldn't recommend going out of your way to do so. And left thinking there were a lot of things that could have been improved.

Saw it in 3D, didn't really notice the 3D which probably means it was fine.

Additional spoilery comments below:

Electro had some good scenes, and it made sense that he was crazy as justification of his actions, but that very craziness also meant he just didn't come across as a terrible bad guy. No goals. Beyond feeding and getting attention. Just wanted to wreck things. This was alright, but didn't elevate the movie beyond average.

I thought everything which happened with Osmond was some of the best parts of the movie. I thought he was the most interesting component.

In my view the script/dircting was weird. Lots of unnecessary bits. For example, the whole opening scene with the parents was totally superfluous. Everything you learnt was learnt in the scene in Roosevelt station (and who else thought that whole setup was a bit silly - sure the doctor didn't cook the books to fund that). That first scene literally told nothing except that they were dead. What did the whole aircraft element give us? Beyond the disbelief that airports and hospitals wouldn't have auxiliary backup generators, given the heroes didn't even know the aircraft would hit it was just a silly mechanism. And what was with all the crowds deciding to watch battle scenes? Nobody is that stupid - surely? I thought every mass killing people ran, they didn't stand around and watch. Frankly, there was probably 20 minutes of film not needed.

Personally, found it hard to believe Spidey can take a full city's worth of electricity and be fine 5 minutes later. Why was the main character so angsty? I want Gwen, I don't want Gwen, I want my father, I'll believe the government story, I love my father. It was just annoying. At least he was willing to go with Gwen to England rather than ask her to stay.

And couldn't we have had 5 minutes to find out what he's doing beside spidey? It's implied he's going to college, but it seemed weird we didn't get any of that side of his life.

Overall, there were just too many scenes left scratching your head.

[The BlackBear]

Beyond the disbelief that airports and hospitals wouldn't have auxiliary backup generators, given the heroes didn't even know the aircraft would hit it was just a silly mechanism.

I thought they did, but because Electro was in the system they couldn't fire them up. I definitely recall at least the hospital mentioning it. :dunno:

[john]

I agree with Red Snow about the tonal shifts being odd, particularly the introduction of max dillon which was like an 80s Ramis movie or something. I thought they did a good job dealing with the Gwen Stacy syndrome issue though, it did feel like part of Parker's journey.