Did Maester Kerwin try to kill Victarion?

[Bedwyck]

It appears that someone may have been poisoning Victarion's hand. Victarion first suspects Maester Kerwin and then Moqorro leads him to believe it. I'm not totally convinced this is actually the case, but I'd like to discuss what motives Maester Kerwin could have for doing so.

1) Personal. The Ironmen took over the house he was serving at the Greenshield and subjected them to cruelty. The maester is also raped by men under Victarion's command. Victarion doesnt really care and does nothing about it. Maybe the Maester thinks killing Victarion (the leader of the Iron Fleet) will avenge both himself and the house he was serving.

2) Euron's directive. Euron was the one who sent this maester with Victarion. Euron could easily favor a slow, drawn out death for Victarion (the type this poisoning method may cause). That way Victarion can fetch him the dragons and Daenerys before he actually dies. Maybe Euron somehow bound the maester to his will through fear or sorcery and I guess It's also possible this maester is not who Euron says he is.

3) For the Citadel in their fight against magic. This maester knows that Victarion's goal is to bring Daenerys and her dragons to Westeros. Based on what archmaester Marwyn said about the Citadel being opposed to dragons and magic, bringing them to Westeros seems like the last thing they'd want. Killing Victarion would greatly jeopardize (if not ensure the failure of) the mission.

Now, on the one hand I'm not sure this Maester was trying to kill Victarion at all. The iron born seem to have a general mistrust of maesters and if Victarion died from a wound this maester was treating, it would likely mean this man's life. If the wound was festering as the maester insisted, taking off Victarion's hand (as the maester urged) does seem like the surest way to stop the infection from spreading. I suppose he could have used the amputation as a way to further poison him, but I dont see why he'd need to if Victarion was already poisoned (although possibly to speed up his death before he reaches Daenerys).

On the other hand, Moqorro definitely indicates to Victarion that the maester is to blame.

"Your death is with us now, my Lord. Give me your hand."

"My hand. What do you know of my hand?"

"I have seen you in the nightfires, Victarion Greyjoy, You come striding through the flames stern and fierce, your great axe dripping blood, blind to the tentacles that grasp you at wrist and neck and ankle, the black strings that make you dance." I think the tentacles and black strings that make you dance could easily be referring to Euron Crow's Eye.

"Wisps of dark smoke rose from his fingers as he pointed at the maester. 'That one. Cut his throat and throw him in the sea, and the winds will favor us all the way to Meereen.' Moqorro had seen that in his fires."

The last part of Moqorro seeing it in his fires is what makes me think that Moqorro definitely wanted Victarion to think the maester posioned him. Since Red Priests and maesters generally do not like each other (we see this with Melisandre and Cressen, among other conflicts of interest) I think its possible that Moqorro just didnt want this guy anywhere near Victarion or Daenerys and so he made Victarion think that just to be rid of him when really Kerwin didnt do anything.

Its hard to go against Moqorro since pretty much everything hes told Victarion has turned out to be true, but could he have ulterior motives? I see the dusky woman and the dragon horn itself as more likely assassination tools Euron would use. I dont see why this maester would do Euron's bidding when he has no reason to like Euron and every reason to dislike him. I suppose there could be some sorcery at work or its possible the maester isnt who Euron says he is. Victarion at least thinks its the same maester who was in service at Greenshield though. I dont know why he would just take Euron's word for it unless either he or men in his fleet saw the maester at Greenshield when they took the place.

I dont know what to make of this. What do you guys think? Did Maester Kerwin poison Victarion and if so, Why?

[Bedwyck]

No one has anything to say about this? Even if we take things at face value and assume Lewin did poison Victarion there is still the why to figure out. Victarion does not offer his opinion as to why Lewin would try and kill him. Surely there must be some thoughts on the matter.

[HexMachina]

"Your death is with us now, my Lord. Give me your hand."

I always took this to have a double meaning.

1) The poisoned/infected hand will kill him if left untreated

2) Victarion's death is in the room with them (i.e. the Dusky Woman, who has been dressing Victarion's hand for him. What's more, the time we see her bind the hand in a bandage she catches him with the knife, and easy way to keep the wound infected/poisoned.)

ETA: if it was Maester Kerwin, then I imagine it would be because he was coerced by Euron before they set sail

[Unlady B]

Something weird was happening to Vicky's hand, that's for sure.

At a time he believes it could have been the sword that was poisoned, and we also have the reference of this happening before with Oberyn poisoning his weapons.

But we constantly get the affirmation that all Euron's presents are poison. Vicky gets several presents from his brother, The Dusky woman and the maestre being two of them.

The maestre would be a too obvious culprit, with motives and medium, so I don't think it was him. Besides, I didn't get the feeling he had the balls to try poison a guy like Vicky.

Even though I really like the Dusky woman, and Vicky seems fond of her, her reaction towards Moqorro is queer...

[Dead Wolf]

I believe it was the dusky woman. She had been treating Vic's hand since he was wounded. I also have a theory ha she is the FM that killed Balon and hat Euron hired to kill Victarion

[Unlady B]

Sorry OP to derail

I also have a theory ha she is the FM that killed Balon and hat Euron hired to kill Victarion

Why would he want to kill Vicky? And why is it necessary for him to hire a FM to do the job?

Balon is understandable, he needed him dead to have a new king's moot, and because kinslaying is a sin so terrible it would undermine his possibilities of winning the moot, he hired the FM.

But Vicky poses no real threat to him. He easily got rid of Vicky by sending him across half the world to go fetch a dragon queen and her dragons. And Vicky obeyed. Even if he suspects Vicky will "steal" Dany and/or her dragons, Euron is already a king and has another agenda, so that's why he didn't bother himself.

[Stannisaurus]

I don't think the Maester was trying to kill Victarion. He was described as too timid to try something like this, although we only see him from Vicky's POV who isn't exactly known for his intellectual prowess.

If Victarion died then, like the OP said, his men would surely take it out on Maester Kerwin, torturing and killing him. Moqorro has every reason to kill the maester regardless of whether he tried to poison Victarion since his religion is at odds with the Citadel.

If there was any poisoning, I would bet on the Dusky woman, obeying orders from Euron. My crazy theory would be that Euron sent the Iron Fleet away to pave the way for the undead to take over the Iron Islands (I think one of Mel's visions can be interpreted as the undead swallowing the Iron Islands?). Removing the head of the fleet would disorganize them.

Moqorro is probably just using Vicky to reach and help Dany. As soon as Victarion serves his purpose, Moqorro will leave him or even destroy/kill him in heartbeat.

[Lord Joker]

I always thought it was the woman who was doing it.

[Roddy the Ruin]

I believe it was the dusky woman. She had been treating Vic's hand since he was wounded. I also have a theory ha she is the FM that killed Balon and hat Euron hired to kill Victarion

Yes that would be quite the twist! I hope she does it!

[Dead Wolf]

Sorry OP to derail

Why would he want to kill Vicky? And why is it necessary for him to hire a FM to do the job?

Balon is understandable, he needed him dead to have a new king's moot, and because kinslaying is a sin so terrible it would undermine his possibilities of winning the moot, he hired the FM.

But Vicky poses no real threat to him. He easily got rid of Vicky by sending him across half the world to go fetch a dragon queen and her dragons. And Vicky obeyed. Even if he suspects Vicky will "steal" Dany and/or her dragons, Euron is already a king and has another agenda, so that's why he didn't bother himself.

Victarion is a threat. He commands he Iron Fleet, the best ships and men from the Iron Islands. He is going to use Vic to bring a dragon back to Westeros for him to ride, then since Euron cannot defeat Victarion in single combat, he'll have his FM do it

[Unlady B]

Victarion is a threat. He commands he Iron Fleet, the best ships and men from the Iron Islands. He is going to use Vic to bring a dragon back to Westeros for him to ride, then since Euron cannot defeat Victarion in single combat, he'll have his FM do it

I still can't see why would Euron spend so much money on a FM to kill Vicky. Ok, you are right, he has reasons to want him dead.

Certainly the dusky woman won Vicky's trust and probably is the one that poisoned his hand. It's not impossible for Euron to convince a random x woman to do this for him, or maybe, just like with MMD, she is poisoning him due to sheer despite, just because he is an ironborne.

Vicky indeed comands the Iron Fleet, that is heading across the world in a perilous task with uncertain guarantees of success, and has probably lost a fourth of its ships, under Euron's orders.

If Euron needed to get rid of Vicky and his fleet, he certainly did, and it wasn't that difficult. But if he is so uncertain of Vicky's loyalty, why send him to go get the most precious weapon living? (<---I meant a dragon). I'm in the belief that Euron has a second agenda, and it's no coincidence that he came across the dragonbinder horn, to then surrender it that easily to Vicky and send him playing with dragons. Euron has an ace under his sleeve.

[Bedwyck]

The only issue I have with the dusky woman being the one Euron sent to apply the poison instead of the Maester is how would Euron possibly know that Victarion would choose to let the Dusky woman bind his wounds? Victarion kind of goes against conventional logic when he lets her do that.

Of course, if she is a faceless man (who can kill in many different ways) sent to murder Victarion then she would have just poisoned him because the opportunity presented itself. I dont know if she is a faceless man because sometimes her behavior does not seem like that of one. Her looking surprised and hissing at Moqorro does not seem like something a faceless man would do. Also, wouldnt there be a good chance Moqorro would know about it if she was the poisoner and would want to tell Victarion about it (since shes hostile towards him and Victarion).

[LadyoftheNorth72]

Without dragging a half dozen other topics into the question actually asked by the thread title (because FM and Balon and all that are separate issues), I think this boils down to two questions really: 1. Was Kerwin *supposed* to kill Victarion, and 2. Did he actually try to do so.

On the first, IMO the answer is no. When Vic departed with the IF even he was not overly concerned about it yet; it was troubling him but it wasn't until later that he began to seriously wonder if it would wind up killing him. He's been very careful to avoid anyone knowing about it as well. It would not make sense for Euron to have him killed that way in any case; he wants to get hold of Dany and/or the dragons, and healthy whole Vic is absolutely necessary for the IF to accomplish that.

That doesn't mean Euron intends Vic to survive the journey BACK - I have always believed Euron has each ship of the IF well salted with men who have been given clear instructions not to let Vic return alive (or even clear Slaver's Bay).

Lesser captains can get the IF home with his bride once the hard part is done. And he's not stupid enough to be unaware that Vic would love some poetic payback by taking Euron's intended bride.

I just don't see leaving it up to a plan as chancy as rotting Vic's hand intentionally. He will need it for battle. It could easily kill or maim him before he's carried out his assignment. Kerwin might bungle it and/or spill the beans. If Euron wants Vic dead, it will be via mass and well-planned mutiny on the way home.

2. Kerwin would have to know that if Vic died under his "care," he might outlive him by about thirty seconds. I think he wanted that thing to heal at least as much as Vic did, because his life was as tied to it as Vic's own. Even if he had been instructed by Euron to do something, he would have seen how the situation stood once they were clear of port. Fail to heal the captain and the best possible outcome for you is a quick death.

IMO the same goes for the DW if Vic dies too soon. She's sharing the captain's cabin and bed. I don't like using extremely graphic phrases so I will just say that her best outcome would be a quick heave over the side; more likely she would get Lollysed to death.

[walkingWITHcersei]

The possibility of the woman poisoning him is intriguing. I never considered it before. However, I don't see how Kendry could have been involved in any attempt to harm Vic. It doesn't fit every other piece of info we have about the type of person he is. Simply put, even poisoning a man takes a certain amount of balls. Twice as much to get up close and personal to poison a behemoth such as Vic, and Kendry has shown repeatedly to have no sac at all. I believe the quote is "how do u shoot the devil in the back? What if u miss?" Does anyone here really think Kendry has it in him to pull that trigger?

[Unlady B]

Without dragging a half dozen other topics into the question actually asked by the thread title (because FM and Balon and all that are separate issues), I think this boils down to two questions really: 1. Was Kerwin *supposed* to kill Victarion, and 2. Did he actually try to do so.

On the first, IMO the answer is no. When Vic departed with the IF even he was not overly concerned about it yet; it was troubling him but it wasn't until later that he began to seriously wonder if it would wind up killing him. He's been very careful to avoid anyone knowing about it as well. It would not make sense for Euron to have him killed that way in any case; he wants to get hold of Dany and/or the dragons, and healthy whole Vic is absolutely necessary for the IF to accomplish that.

That doesn't mean Euron intends Vic to survive the journey BACK - I have always believed Euron has each ship of the IF well salted with men who have been given clear instructions not to let Vic return alive (or even clear Slaver's Bay).

Lesser captains can get the IF home with his bride once the hard part is done. And he's not stupid enough to be unaware that Vic would love some poetic payback by taking Euron's intended bride.

I just don't see leaving it up to a plan as chancy as rotting Vic's hand intentionally. He will need it for battle. It could easily kill or maim him before he's carried out his assignment. Kerwin might bungle it and/or spill the beans. If Euron wants Vic dead, it will be via mass and well-planned mutiny on the way home.

2. Kerwin would have to know that if Vic died under his "care," he might outlive him by about thirty seconds. I think he wanted that thing to heal at least as much as Vic did, because his life was as tied to it as Vic's own. Even if he had been instructed by Euron to do something, he would have seen how the situation stood once they were clear of port. Fail to heal the captain and the best possible outcome for you is a quick death.

IMO the same goes for the DW if Vic dies too soon. She's sharing the captain's cabin and bed. I don't like using extremely graphic phrases so I will just say that her best outcome would be a quick heave over the side; more likely she would get Lollysed to death.

I agree with the thing that Euron needs Vicky alive in this journey. You explained better than me why I think it's pointless for Euron's purposes to get Vicky killed or poisoned at this point of the task.

And I keep on saying, if he wants Vicky dead asap, he has other effective and cheaper ways.

On the other hand, Mirri Maz Durr killed Drogo right under the khalassar noses, and yes, she expected to die soon and painfully, but she did it all the same.

We don't know anything about the Dusky Woman. She might be a vindictive bitch like MMD, or just an innocent caring salt wife. If she's the one poisoning him, she might act under somebody's direction, or by her own.

I really like her character so I hope she doesn't die soon.

I'm personally not sure of a lot of things, but what I bet my hands on is that something weird was really happening to Vicky's hand, and that maestre Kendric had nothing to do with it.

[Mad Monkey]

Some people think that the dusky woman is Euron, which is sickening for a couple of reasons but there you go.

[a boy and his wolf]

anyone know how much time passed from the battle of the shields to victarion finding moqorro? it seems to me that he would surely have died if it was poison. i assumed it was just an infection that was keeping it from healing.

doesnt vic around this time think back to his younger brother dying from an infection after a maester tried to sew his severed fingers back on?

[Bedwyck]

anyone know how much time passed from the battle of the shields to victarion finding moqorro? it seems to me that he would surely have died if it was poison. i assumed it was just an infection that was keeping it from healing.

doesnt vic around this time think back to his younger brother dying from an infection after a maester tried to sew his severed fingers back on?

Since the shield islands are on the other side of Westeros it would of had to have been a good amount of time. If either Maester Kerwin or the dusky woman poisoned him though, the question would be how long has it been since those two began treating his hand? To which I'm not sure and it would depend a lot on the type of poison for how long it'd take.

That might have been an Aeron Damphair chapter which recalled the maester failing their brother.

[a boy and his wolf]

Since the shield islands are on the other side of Westeros it would of had to have been a good amount of time. If either Maester Kerwin or the dusky woman poisoned him though, the question would be how long has it been since those two began treating his hand? To which I'm not sure and it would depend a lot on the type of poison for how long it'd take.

That might have been an Aeron Damphair chapter which recalled the maester failing their brother.

i really think it was just a common infection. after all there is at best little evidence to suggest poison apart from victarions thoughts on the subject and he seems overly suspicious to me, and the common opinion seems to say that hes not very intelligent either

[Rooseman]

Some people think that the dusky woman is Euron, which is sickening for a couple of reasons but there you go.

No, that's a joke theory like Euron = Daario. I'm sure you'll find some people who actually believe it, but most of those who mention it aren't serious.

@Topic: I think the Dusky Woman is the obvious answer. Victarion even thinks to himself how Euron's gifts are always poisoned, but he takes that to mean that he bedded the woman before giving her to him. Good ol' dumb Victarion.