The Latest News
Connect with Us

Notable Releases
From the Store
Game of Thrones Wax Seal Coasters
Game of Thrones Wax Seal Coasters
HBO US
Featured Sites
License Holders

Jump to content


Photo

What if Renly had lived?


  • Please log in to reply
151 replies to this topic

#1 LdOfWfll

LdOfWfll

    Freerider

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 45 posts

Posted 20 April 2014 - 03:05 PM

If that shadow hadn't slain Renly, what would of happened in the story? Likely, he would've crushed Stannis in the morning. Would he of actually killed Stannis though?

After gaining his brother's bannermen, Renly would surely of sieged King's Landing. More than likely he would've won, due to the support of Highgarden. Renly would've won the war, allied with Robb, crushed the Lannister's, freed Sansa and would be king. Stark and Baratheon uniting the North and South again.

But what else would of happen, and what would happen under Renly's rule? Would attention go to the Wall after hearing about the Fight at the Fist of the First Men? Daenerys? And what if she attacked while Renly sat the Throne?

So what do you think would've happened if Renly lived? A peaceful rule?

Edited by LdOfWfll, 20 April 2014 - 03:06 PM.


#2 Ingelheim

Ingelheim

    I've never paid my debts.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,673 posts

Posted 20 April 2014 - 03:08 PM

He would have crushed Stannis and after that, he would have killed him. Then he would have gone to King's Landing and the city would have fallen. The Lannisters would have been destroyed, and then, after all...he would have fought against Robb.



#3 Stormland's Fury

Stormland's Fury

    King Robert's Chastity

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,451 posts

Posted 20 April 2014 - 03:08 PM

If that shadow hadn't slain Renly, what would of happened in the story? Likely, he would've crushed Stannis in the morning. Would he of actually killed Stannis though?

After gaining his brother's bannermen, Renly would surely of sieged King's Landing. More than likely he would've won, due to the support of Highgarden. Renly would've won the war, allied with Robb, crushed the Lannister's, freed Sansa and would be king. Stark and Baratheon uniting the North and South again.

But what else would of happen, and what would happen under Renly's rule? Would attention go to the Wall after hearing about the Fight at the Fist of the First Men? Daenerys? And what if she attacked while Renly sat the Throne?

So what do you think would've happened if Renly lived? A peaceful rule?

 

I don't think he would have killed Stannis on purpose, although Stannis might die fighting, especially since he was not in the same rush as him and had a bigger army.

 

I am sure though that the whole realm under Renly would ignore the Wall and wouldn't take any looming threat from Dany seriously, which might end really bad for the kingdom when winter is well on it's way.


Edited by Stormland's Fury, 20 April 2014 - 03:09 PM.


#4 To catch a Lannister

To catch a Lannister

    Hedge Knight

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 364 posts

Posted 20 April 2014 - 03:11 PM

He would have crushed Stannis and after that, he would have killed him. Then he would have gone to King's Landing and the city would have fallen. The Lannisters would have been destroyed, and then, after all...he would have fought against Robb.

 

All the coulds, shoulds, and woulds in the world were all beaten by one did.



#5 Boarsbane

Boarsbane

    Lion of the Rock

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,439 posts

Posted 20 April 2014 - 03:14 PM

Westeros would be a much better place.

#6 Stormland's Fury

Stormland's Fury

    King Robert's Chastity

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,451 posts

Posted 20 April 2014 - 03:16 PM

Westeros would be a much better place.

 

For a year. Tops.



#7 RagnarBuliwyf

RagnarBuliwyf

    Commoner

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 13 posts

Posted 20 April 2014 - 03:19 PM

Stannis would have been beat, Renly would've gained his brothers bannermen and taken Kings Landing. 

 

He most likely would've fought a few battles against the Lannisters and then secured peace with them, I doubt he'd have destroyed their family much like Stannis wants.

I think he'd also have fought against the North somewhat, due to Rob wanting to kill Joffrey for beheading Eddard. 

 

 

It'd be an interesting read, a "what if" in asoiaf.



#8 Stormland's Fury

Stormland's Fury

    King Robert's Chastity

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,451 posts

Posted 20 April 2014 - 03:21 PM

 

I think he'd also have fought against the North somewhat, due to Rob wanting to kill Joffrey for beheading Eddard. 

 

 

Renly would give them Joffrey without a second thought though.



#9 Walder_Frey

Walder_Frey

    Freerider

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 74 posts

Posted 20 April 2014 - 03:24 PM

He would have lost a lot of his army fighting Stannis, and then gotten crushed by the Lannisters, or he would have been forced to ally with Robb, and then maybe he would have been on to something. 



#10 Consigliere

Consigliere

    Green and Gold

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,678 posts

Posted 20 April 2014 - 03:26 PM

It would have made for a pretty boring story.



#11 Boarsbane

Boarsbane

    Lion of the Rock

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,439 posts

Posted 20 April 2014 - 03:28 PM

He would have lost a lot of his army fighting Stannis, and then gotten crushed by the Lannisters, or he would have been forced to ally with Robb, and then maybe he would have been on to something.


Stannis had 5,000 men of questionable loyalty stuck between an impenetrable fortress and Renly's much larger and better equipped army. Even if he takes an insane amount of casualties most of his forces are at Bitterbridge.

#12 Stormland's Fury

Stormland's Fury

    King Robert's Chastity

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,451 posts

Posted 20 April 2014 - 03:30 PM

It would have made for a pretty boring story.

 

Ha!



#13 Drake Heath

Drake Heath

    Hedge Knight

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 352 posts

Posted 20 April 2014 - 03:31 PM

Renly would have gotten destroyed by the Lannisters if he tried to siege King's Landing.

 

Stannis being "dead" also means that the Wildings would defeated the Night's Watch and would have flooded the North.



#14 Ingelheim

Ingelheim

    I've never paid my debts.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,673 posts

Posted 20 April 2014 - 03:32 PM

He would have lost a lot of his army fighting Stannis, and then gotten crushed by the Lannisters, or he would have been forced to ally with Robb, and then maybe he would have been on to something. 

 

Stannis had 5,000 men; 400 were sellswords. Renly had, IIRC, 80,000 men there, and the best chivalry of all Westeros.



#15 Victor227

Victor227

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,125 posts

Posted 20 April 2014 - 03:41 PM

Renly had to die, because simply everything was lining up in his favor strategically.

 

Stannis' army was a joke compared to the downright massive armored cavalry army that Renly brought against him, and they were in a disadvantageous position at that. Stannis' best option would have been retreat, and that would have killed his cause. He didn't even have the Florents back then or any of the Stormlords back then, just the Narrow Sea houses, and that would have been a heck of a morale shock.

 

The Lannisters were at Harrenhall, true, and in a position to reinforce the capital, but Robb's attack on the West put massive pressure on them, and Edmure and Roose were in a position to take the castle the instant Tywin left it. As is, Renly had the power to put a larger host in the field against them under someone like Tarly, and still have the manpower to besiege the city uninterrupted.

 

The Kingdom of the North was also under massive pressure. Robb had lost his capital, his heirs, and the North had to contend with both the Greyjoys and Wildlings (as Stannis wouldn't be around to stop that one). Along with the fact that he wouldn't be surrendering to the Lannisters, and Renly offered him a good face-saving alternative, I doubt Robb would have put up a war against a non-Joffrey Iron Throne.

 

Really, it's a good thing he died, as the whole war was boringly in his favor.



#16 Nyrhex

Nyrhex

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,687 posts

Posted 20 April 2014 - 06:12 PM

1. If that shadow hadn't slain Renly, what would of happened in the story?

2. Likely, he would've crushed Stannis in the morning.

3. Would he of actually killed Stannis though?
4. After gaining his brother's bannermen, Renly would surely of sieged King's Landing. More than likely he would've won, due to the support of Highgarden.

5. Renly would've won the war,

6. allied with Robb,

7. crushed the Lannister's,

8. freed Sansa

9. and would be king. Stark and Baratheon uniting the North and South again.

10. But what else would of happen, and what would happen under Renly's rule?

11. Would attention go to the Wall after hearing about the Fight at the Fist of the First Men?

12. Daenerys? And what if she attacked while Renly sat the Throne?
13. So what do you think would've happened if Renly lived? A peaceful rule?

 

1. Depends on so many factors. If Mel's shadow fails, does she feel danger? Would she warn Stannis? Would Stannis win despite the odds because he has been preparing for this battle for the past month? Would Stannis be able to retreat like on the Blackwater? Not that simple to answear.

2. Debatable. Stannis picked the time and place, and has prep time. He knows the history of Renly's top commanders, and in a single move forced Renly to drop his 20-1 advantage to a 4-1. This is still Stannis Baratheon, last time someone thought he has all the advantages in the world to defeat him, it ended with Fair Isle.

3. Yes. He told his men to make sure that Stannis' body is not misteated "when" he falls, not if. If he wanted to spare him he would have told them to spare him like Renly was specific about Barristan. Problem is that Stannis is a problem to Renly's claim, and in Renly's own words, Stannis has the better claim "while he lives". On the other hand Barristan as a propaganda tools is important to Renly. 

4. Dependes on how Tywin reacts to the news. He could disregard his own lands now that there is nothing to stop Renly, and defend KL. Renly might take out the Lannisters early, instead of having Robb bleeding them for him, as well as his own men in the process. That's kind of against Renly's strategy of letting others fight while he takes his time.

5. No. Contrary to Renly's beliefe, he had only the Reach with him. Granted, they field the largest army, but it's one (two with the Stormlands) region of several. Dorne would not join him, unless he already defeated everyone else, and they would still try and work to regain the throne for a non-Baratheon/Stark/Tully/Arryn/Lannister, with a marriage alliance. Renly is already married, and to a Tyrell of all people, Dorne's traditional enemies. The Vale takes orders from Lysa, and Lysa takes them from LF, who wants to control the king, or be king. Depending on how LF wants to play his game, the Vale can either declare for Renly, against Renly, or stay isolated. The North is independant, and Catelyn thinking that she can force Robb to put off his crown is nice and all but Robb tells her that he does not need to ask her for his actions later in ASOS, which shows that what Catelyn thinks and what she can deliver are two very different things. The Ironborn are already on thier way to attack the North, so that means that Renly has the same forces as he had at first, only now he has to worry about all the fronts. Not a swift victory, or an assured one. That is without considering the possibility of the Iron Bank going at some point to Shireen. Tyrion spent all of the remaining funds on his chain. If the crown does not need to fear Stannis' fleet, and will require emergency funds to face Renly, we get to the same situation as Tycho looking for Stannis. Shireen was not at SE, she was on Dragonstone. 

6. Not gonna happen. Robb and the Northmen want independence, and they still control a hell of alot of troops.

7. Tywin, sure. the Westerlands is a different story, and the Lannisters can still play defence. It won't be over in a day, especially when Renly might still need to worry about other fronts.

8. LoL nope. She is a hostage. A pointless hostage since Robb already said he won't trade her for anything important, and bending the knee is pretty important.

9. Fantasy. Going off the books, no logical reason to think this to be the case. 

10. Remember the Lannisters slowly taking over Robert's court? Same thing only the Tyrells playing the Lannister's part, and Renly playing Robert's. The only major difference is that Renly has even fewer allies than Robert.

11. Nothing to indicate Renly doing more than mocking the letter before tossing it away.

12. The same as attacking now, only Renly would have less troops than the Lannisters and the Tyrells can field together.

13. Nope. Expect less stability in the short term, and in a scenario that Renly actually wins, expect the court intrigue and political power plays to take it up a notch. 


Edited by Nyrhex, 20 April 2014 - 06:23 PM.


#17 barmyscouser

barmyscouser

    Hedge Knight

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 332 posts

Posted 20 April 2014 - 06:19 PM

Oh Renly was doomed.

 

Boy howdy.

 

There's the whole knights of summer thing that Cat goes into.  But my doubts about Renly stem from the fact that he's a courtier playing at being a warrior.  In the lead-up to the battle that never happened between Renly and Stannis, Renly makes 2 breathtaking blunders.  First he out marches his supply lines.  He's assuming that Stannis will be a minor speed bump, but war is a dangerous field in which to make assumptions.   Then he decides it's no big deal if his army marches into the rising sun as they engage.

 

Sure, Renly still would have won, but with unnecessarily high casualties, and not for the last time.  He would emerge from the battle for Storm's End more confident than ever that he's a mighty warrior king and his word must be obeyed.  Even when it's dumb.

 

After he looses too many men while taking King's Landing he can pick his poison.  He can chase guerillas around the Red Mountains.  He  can crash his host against the Bloody Gate in hopes of besieging the Eyrie.  Or he can match wits with Robb.He can do these things in any order he wants, assuming his enemies never form alliances.  But every campaign costs blood and treasure.

 

Renly thinks he has a big enough army to subjugate Westeros.  But he doesn't.



#18 Stormland's Fury

Stormland's Fury

    King Robert's Chastity

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,451 posts

Posted 20 April 2014 - 06:54 PM

 

 

Renly thinks he has a big enough army to subjugate Westeros.  But he doesn't.

 

He's also too soft and tries to be on good terms with everyone that in the end he would barely rule over the Crown- and Stormlands.



#19 Drake Heath

Drake Heath

    Hedge Knight

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 352 posts

Posted 20 April 2014 - 06:56 PM

Renly was also an obvious usurper with no real claim to anything or reason to try to become king.



#20 MyLittleFinger

MyLittleFinger

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,265 posts

Posted 20 April 2014 - 06:57 PM

The Red Keep would be a lot more fabulous.