Why do Northerners speak the Common Tongue?

[Waylin Stark]

The Northerners are descended from the First Men, whereas the rest of Westeros is mainly descended from the Andals and the Rhyonar.

They have different cultures and a different religion, yet the language is the same as the rest of Westeros - they speak the Common Tongue.

The First Men spoke the Old Tongue, for 6000 years until the invasion of the Andals.

The Andals spoke the Common Tongue. But seeing as the Northerners have retained certain customs, how is it that they speak the Common Tongue, and the Old Tongue is only spoken by some clans north of the Wall?

[Stormland's Fury]

The Northerners are descended from the First Men, whereas the rest of Westeros is mainly descended from the Andals and the Rhyonar.

They have different cultures and a different religion, yet the language is the same as the rest of Westeros - they speak the Common Tongue.

The First Men spoke the Old Tongue, for 6000 years until the invasion of the Andals.

The Andals spoke the Common Tongue. But seeing as the Northerners have retained certain customs, how is it that they speak the Common Tongue, and the Old Tongue is only spoken by some clans north of the Wall?

Maybe assimilation. I think they integrated with the rest, as several people beyond the wall still retain the Old Tongue while the Northerners simply mingled with the rest of Westeros.

The Ironborn are in the same boat, they still have retained some cultural aspects that are different from the rest.

[cocoalover1956]

Assimilation most likely. The First Men were in contact with the Andals for a few thousand years, plenty of time for a language to spread north. It's only in the most remote, most northern parts that the language didn't reach. Actually some wildings speak the common tongue, mostly of them seem to be raiders or traders. It's possible, but it seems kind of odd.

[Aegon the Great]

Most people in British Isles speak a germanic language descended from the Angles, Saxons and Jutes instead of the indigenous Celtic tongues. The Northerners spoke the Common Tongue of their Andal invaders. The Old Tongue is still around in Skagos and Beyond the Wall.

[Night's_King]

Germany is a good example as well. Everywhere in Germany the people speak Hochdeutsch (High German) but in the north, where I lived as a child, we speak mostly Plattdeutsch (Low German) or Nordfriesisch (North Frisian). Those are totally different languages. As an example I give you the sentence "My name is Hans and I am from Germany." First in Hochdeutsch, then in Plattdeutsch.

Hochdeutsch: "Mein Name ist Hans und ich komme aus Deutschland."

Plattdeutsch:" Mien Naam is Hans un ik kumm ut Düütschland."

Especially on the countryside we grow up speaking both languages. I think you could do the same in many countries. So it is not so special, that the Northmen speak the Common Tongue.

[Lord Reaver]

Germany is a good example as well. Everywhere in Germany the people speak Hochdeutsch (High German) but in the north, where I lived as a child, we speak mostly Plattdeutsch (Low German) or Nordfriesisch (North Frisian). Those are totally different languages.

Well, "totally different" is going a bit far. They are similar enough that a person knowing one can understand the other, with some difficulty. I have only knowledge of hochdeutsch (as that is what you learn outside germany), but I would understand the second sentence there if you presented it to me (in writing, don't get me started on trying to understand german accents).

The UK is to me the prime example, they have several different languages from different linguistic branches such as germanic (anglo-saxon and norse) and celtic (gaelic, welsh), yet everyone understands and can speak the one that is a bastardized germanic with heavy latin influences.

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

Well its called the common tongue because most people speak it either as a first or second language. What I wonder about is why the language of the First Men isn't taught.

Most people in British Isles speak a germanic language descended from the Angles, Saxons and Jutes instead of the indigenous Celtic tongues. The Northerners spoke the Common Tongue of their Andal invaders. The Old Tongue is still around in Skagos and Beyond the Wall.

Honestly, English is really too different today to claim its Germanic. Have you read Beowulf in the original?

[Rinso]

There is a lot more Andal blood in the North than most people presume. The North was never that segregated and self-sufficient, like Dorne was during the early years of the Targaryens. And even though certain aspects of the First Men culture are retained, a lot of Andal ones are also adopted.

And heck, even the Wildlings, who actually have a lot more First Men blood and customs than the Northeners, can speak the Common Tongue.

[Night's_King]

Well, "totally different" is going a bit far. They are similar enough that a person knowing one can understand the other, with some difficulty. I have only knowledge of hochdeutsch (as that is what you learn outside germany), but I would understand the second sentence there if you presented it to me (in writing, don't get me started on trying to understand german accents).

The UK is to me the prime example, they have several different languages from different linguistic branches such as germanic (anglo-saxon and norse) and celtic (gaelic, welsh), yet everyone understands and can speak the one that is a bastardized germanic with heavy latin influences.

My example was not the best one. But people who come from farther south understand nothing when you talk plattdeutsch. They are probably as similar as spanish and italian. You can sometimes get the meaning, when you see it written, but hearing is totally different.

[Waylin Stark]

Assimilation seems to be the answer, but to what extent? We don't see any Northern Westerosi speaking the Old Tongue. It's not present in low numbers, it's entirely absent.

Unlike the real life examples above.

[Ravenkingsamurai]

In a recent thread of mine i suggested that the North was conquered by Brandon with the backing of "proto-Andal" mercenaries. These mercenaries and there ancestors now make up the aristocracy of the north, and introduced there language. Those nobility that refused to assimilate went beyond the wall ( see the Thenns.)

My theory is here ( shameless self-advertising) :

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/107658-the-forgotten-invasion-proto-andals-stark-lies-maester-propoganda-and-why-everyone-speaks-the-common-tongue-long/

[Stormland's Fury]

Honestly, English is really too different today to claim its Germanic. Have you read Beowulf in the original?

It's extremely influenced by Latin and French but in essence the grammar and syntax is still Germanic. It's still closely related to Scandinavian languages and German, among others.

It's a West Germanic language.

[Aaron_Targaryen]

Trade and assimilation. If the time line we're given is any where near correct the North has had thousands of years to learn the common tongue, it was most likely a gradual process. There's also most likely some differences between it in the North than in other regions with most of the differences being in how the smallfolk talk.

[joluoto2]

Some Wildlings speak with the common tongue too, and that's even weirder.

[Edd fetch me the boo box]

Honestly, English is really too different today to claim its Germanic. Have you read Beowulf in the original?

Calling it Germanic is more referring to what English evolved from. Just like I wouldn't call myself a Celt or a German, but it does describe what I descended from.

Edit for grammar.

[Free Northman Reborn]

It is a flaw in the books.

Unlike Scotland or parts of Germany, the North was never conquered by the Andals. They were as separate from the South as Russia is from Germany, as France is from Spain, as the Netherlands is from Italy.

More so, in fact, given their separate religion and geographic isolation.

Martin made them speak the Common Tongue to avoid the pain in the ass of having to deal with translation issues when characters interact.

But it really does not make sense from a logical point of view.

[Light a wight tonight]

Well its called the common tongue because most people speak it either as a first or second language. What I wonder about is why the language of the First Men isn't taught.

Honestly, English is really too different today to claim its Germanic. Have you read Beowulf in the original?

Germanic in that it's from that branch of Indo-European languages. As opposed to Celtic, Romance, Slavic, Baltic or the Eastern ones. French has diverged widely from Latin but it's from the Romance group.

[Jaak]

The only way Common Tongue makes sense if it was the prevalent language in South and North already before Andals, so Andals adopted the language of Westeros, not vice versa. In which case, Old Tongue has to be even older.

[Light a wight tonight]

It is a flaw in the books.

Unlike Scotland or parts of Germany, the North was never conquered by the Andals. They were as separate from the South as Russia is from Germany, as France is from Spain, as the Netherlands is from Italy.

More so, in fact, given their separate religion and geographic isolation.

Martin made them speak the Common Tongue to avoid the pain in the ass of having to deal with translation issues when characters interact.

But it really does not make sense from a logical point of view.

You could say the same about the Rohirrim in LotR. Or everybody else besides the Orcs. Elves, Ents, Hobbits, whoever, all speak the same language.

[Hruod Berht]

Because it makes it easier to write the story.

I do feel like it's a lost opportunity to not have some places in the north speak the common tongue.

The posters above make some logical points visa vi geography and why it shouldn't have totally assimilated. It could be logical for all the northern small folk to speak the old tongue, and the noble houses to speak both. That would be cool, but it's not a big deal imo.