Men of the rivers

[Wmarshal]

If they cannot trap Tywin then they would just leave the Westerlands and head back to the Riverlands . Meanwhile Kings Landing would fall with the King , Cersie and Tyrion all in Stannis's hands.

How are they going to escape ?

[Mad Monkey]

Real shame that they're placed in the worst spot in the realm. They don't deserve taking the brunt of these wars.

Agreed. The Riverlands is kind of like Westeros's punching bag. Any time there is a clash between a northern house and a southern house it seems like the Riverlands is the best staging ground for it. If I were Lord of Riverrun I would probably appeal to the Crown for some kind of grant to have the Riverlands moved somewhere else. Maybe somewhere off the coast of Dorne?

[Boarsbane]

They could have actually caught Tywin, or at least the brunt of his forces. Tywin was, at this point, still horribly underestimating Robb's ability to launch a surprise attack, like the Golden Tooth, since no one yet knew (possibly including Robb himself), that Robb was utilizing the wolf senses of Grey Wind. Besides, at the time, Tywin was facing the possibility of facing either/both Renly and Stannis to the South, or the North and the Riverlords to his North, and Robb still had the support of the Freys at this time. Just like the Wildings needed to pull the NW out of Castle Black to pick them off, Robb and his army needed to pull Tywin out into the Riverlands to pick them off, and since their preferred tactic was night raids, they would have been highly successful.

Tywin is a tad smarter than Stafford Lannister, he isn't going to get caught not posting sentries. Night raids aren't going to work on him. Robb was granted a plot gift with his magic wolf finding a secret path that let him bypass the Golden Tooth and the other army being commanded by a moron. If Tywin can get back to the West and close off the Golden Tooth he and Robb will both essentially be trapped in the West, for better or for worse.

[Blackfish Tully]

How are they going to escape ?

They would try to set the trap for Tywin but if Tywin doesn't fall into the trap they would just leave the Westerlands. The Blackfish is one of best generals in Westeroes and he would not set up a trap that would not have a way to get out if the trap does not work.

[Wmarshal]

They would try to set the trap for Tywin but if Tywin doesn't fall into the trap they would just leave the Westerlands. The Blackfish is one of best generals in Westeroes and he would not set up a trap that would not have a way to get out if the trap does not work.

Tywin is marching into the West, how they hell would go around him?

[Barty]

Tywin is a tad smarter than Stafford Lannister, he isn't going to get caught not posting sentries. Night raids aren't going to work on him. Robb was granted a plot gift with his magic wolf finding a secret path that let him bypass the Golden Tooth and the other army being commanded by a moron. If Tywin can get back to the West and close off the Golden Tooth he and Robb will both essentially be trapped in the West, for better or for worse.

How so? The golden tooth isnt the only way out of the west. Robb could just have easily taken the gold road. Remember that at this point Tywin is the only one who has a Lannister army - one army cannot block 2 roads.Splitting his army and blocking both does him no good - that would mean that there would be a host of 10k men who are not under the command of Tywin - easy pickings for someone of Robb's capabilities. Also blocking both is a delaying action which Tywin cannot afford to take, his lands are being ravaged by the Northmen, and Stannis is marching on KL - he needs to deal with Robb fast.

If he reaches the west then Tywin has no choice but to pursue Robb or fool Robb into an ambush. According to Robb, he had already found a defensible spot on the gold road that Tywin would have been stupid to attack. All of this is moot, of course since all Robb needed was a single day's delay and KL would have fallen. As soon as KL falls Robb and Tywin would have quickly signed a peace treaty.

[Barty]

Tywin is marching into the West, how they hell would go around him?

Tywin is marching in though the golden tooth - Robb could have taken the gold road out of the west, its hundreds of miles away from the golden tooth.

[Blackfish Tully]

Tywin is a tad smarter than Stafford Lannister, he isn't going to get caught not posting sentries. Night raids aren't going to work on him. Robb was granted a plot gift with his magic wolf finding a secret path that let him bypass the Golden Tooth and the other army being commanded by a moron. If Tywin can get back to the West and close off the Golden Tooth he and Robb will both essentially be trapped in the West, for better or for worse.

The Golden Tooth is not the only way out of the West and Tywin would not be able to close the Golden Tooth and still chase Robb. He could do one or the other.

[Barty]

As for the OP - BlackFish is clearly the most badass, though Tytos and Jason Mallister are awesome as well

[Boarsbane]

How so? The golden tooth isnt the only way out of the west. Robb could just have easily taken the gold road. Remember that at this point Tywin is the only one who has a Lannister army - one army cannot block 2 roads.Splitting his army and blocking both does him no good - that would mean that there would be a host of 10k men who are not under the command of Tywin - easy pickings for someone of Robb's capabilities. Also blocking both is a delaying action which Tywin cannot afford to take, his lands are being ravaged by the Northmen, and Stannis is marching on KL - he needs to deal with Robb fast.

If he reaches the west then Tywin has no choice but to pursue Robb or fool Robb into an ambush. According to Robb, he had already found a defensible spot on the gold road that Tywin would have been stupid to attack. All of this is moot, of course since all Robb needed was a single day's delay and KL would have fallen. As soon as KL falls Robb and Tywin would have quickly signed a peace treaty.

And Mace Tyrell could very easily have seen that as an act of war. And there are fortress that guard the West to the south as well. Tywin doesn't have to use an army to block the Golden Tooth, Robb couldn't get around it without his magic wolf using a trail to bypass it so obviously he doesn't have the men or the time to take it. They probably know about the trail at this point as well. Robb could dance around the West for a time, but this is Tywin's land and the Northern invaders are raping and pillaging there way about, more men will flock to the Lannister army.

[Blackfish Tully]

And Mace Tyrell could very easily have seen that as an act of war. And there are fortress that guard the West to the south as well. Tywin doesn't have to use an army to block the Golden Tooth, Robb couldn't get around it without his magic wolf using a trail to bypass it so obviously he doesn't have the men or the time to take it. They probably know about the trail at this point as well. Robb could dance around the West for a time, but this is Tywin's land and the Northern invaders are raping and pillaging there way about, more men will flock to the Lannister army.

Getting past the Golden Tooth from the West would probably be a lot easier then getting through it from the Riverlands. It was probably not built with the idea to keep armies from getting through from the West.

[Barty]

And Mace Tyrell could very easily have seen that as an act of war. And there are fortress that guard the West to the south as well. Tywin doesn't have to use an army to block the Golden Tooth, Robb couldn't get around it without his magic wolf using a trail to bypass it so obviously he doesn't have the men or the time to take it. They probably know about the trail at this point as well. Robb could dance around the West for a time, but this is Tywin's land and the Northern invaders are raping and pillaging there way about, more men will flock to the Lannister army.

Mace Tyrell was already at war with Robb(though technically I dont think the Gold Road ever actually crosses into Tyrell territory, it goes from the west to the riverlands to the crownlands). And the fortresses guarding the west to the south are barely defended - Robb has already taken quite a few of them.

Tywin needs to leave behind men to guard the secret path though since its clear that the fortress of golden tooth does not guard it.

And even if you are right and Tywin, through some miracle, manages to block both roads and still have enough men left to completely trap Robb - he would not have done so since surely by that time KL would have fallen. Once KL falls Tywin would very readily agree to a peace treaty with Robb(which was Robb's plan in the first place - force Tywin into a peace). Both sides now have a common enemy in Stannis and while they would never be allies both leaders are practical enough to see that fighting each other now achieves nothing.

[Wmarshal]

Getting past the Golden Tooth from the West would probably be a lot easier then getting through it from the Riverlands. It was probably not built with the idea to keep armies from getting through from the West.

Yeah it was, it was originally a riverland castle built to defend the riverlands from the West.

[Boarsbane]

Getting past the Golden Tooth from the West would probably be a lot easier then getting through it from the Riverlands. It was probably not built with the idea to keep armies from getting through from the West.

If it was easy to take Robb would of taken it, it has one of the richest gold mines in the West. It is primarily to guard from the east but that doesn't mean it can't guard from the west.

[Ramsay Gimp]

Walder Frey :devil:

Just kidding, I think Blackfish would have to be my favorite (though he is more flawed than many admit). I like all the Tullys except Lysa.

[Barty]

If it was easy to take Robb would of taken it, it has one of the richest gold mines in the West. It is primarily to guard from the east but that doesn't mean it can't guard from the west.

No - Robb is not after the gold of the west. He attacks the lands closest to Lannisport and CR to provoke Tywin - lands which are probably under Tywin's personal protection.

[Wmarshal]

No - Robb is not after the gold of the west. He attacks the lands closest to Lannisport and CR to provoke Tywin - lands which are probably under Tywin's personal protection.

Robb was still unable to take any of the castles or walled towns

[Blackfish Tully]

And Mace Tyrell could very easily have seen that as an act of war. And there are fortress that guard the West to the south as well. Tywin doesn't have to use an army to block the Golden Tooth, Robb couldn't get around it without his magic wolf using a trail to bypass it so obviously he doesn't have the men or the time to take it. They probably know about the trail at this point as well. Robb could dance around the West for a time, but this is Tywin's land and the Northern invaders are raping and pillaging there way about, more men will flock to the Lannister army.

And with Kings Landing in Stannis's hands is Tywin going to want to spend any more time or energy dealing with Robb when every single member of his immediate family is in mortal danger. Joffrey ,Cersie and Tyrion are either dead or captured in Kings Landing. Jaimie is somewhere in the Riverlands, Myrcella is in Dorne's hands and Tommen is hiding in a castle in the Crownlands. If Tywin does not act fast then his entire House could be wiped out.

[Boarsbane]

Mace Tyrell was already at war with Robb(though technically I dont think the Gold Road ever actually crosses into Tyrell territory, it goes from the west to the riverlands to the crownlands). And the fortresses guarding the west to the south are barely defended - Robb has already taken quite a few of them.

Tywin needs to leave behind men to guard the secret path though since its clear that the fortress of golden tooth does not guard it.

And even if you are right and Tywin, through some miracle, manages to block both roads and still have enough men left to completely trap Robb - he would not have done so since surely by that time KL would have fallen. Once KL falls Tywin would very readily agree to a peace treaty with Robb(which was Robb's plan in the first place - force Tywin into a peace). Both sides now have a common enemy in Stannis and while they would never be allies both leaders are practical enough to see that fighting each other now achieves nothing.

Robb took Ashemark and the Crag, neither of those seem close to the southern part of the Westerlands.

Not necessarily. The remainder of Jaime's host, around 4,000 men I think, returned to the Golden Tooth after their defeat. They don't have to guard the path, just make it impassible with rubble.

They would be smart to both agree to peace, for a time, though Stannis wouldn't be much a threat to either of them though unless he could get the Tyrell, Martell, or Arryn's support. Both probably have bigger or comparable size armies to him.

[Barty]

Robb took Ashemark and the Crag, neither of those seem close to the southern part of the Westerlands.

Not necessarily. The remainder of Jaime's host, around 4,000 men I think, returned to the Golden Tooth after their defeat. They don't have to guard it, just make it impassible with rubble.

They would be smart to both agree to peace, for a time, Stannis wouldn't be much a threat to either of them though unless he could get the Tyrell, Martell, or Arryn's support. Both probably have bigger or comparable size armies to him.

Robb just proved to Tywin that army sizes mean squat if the man leading them is smart enough - and both would be stupid to ignore a man like Stannis just because his army size is not the biggest in westeros. But it would be stupider for them to continue fighting each other when they know they have a common enemy, since neither side is strong enough to fight both enemies at the same side.

Look at it from Tywin's perspective - Robb has 6000 heavy horse and is a very good general caught in a trap(if Tywin manages to trap him), Tywin would lose at least 10-12k men in finishing off Robb - he just lost half his army. While what would the riverlords and remaining Northern Lords do? Remember Edmure has 11k men with him and Bolton has 10k. They would immediately support Stannis. So by killing Robb, Tywin loses half his army and gives Stannis another 20k men at least.