The Boltons and their fear of Jon Snow/Stark - Connection to the Pink Letter

[BorhPT]

Hello everyone! Today, while reading ADWD again, I noticed something that caught my atention in the chapter of Asha "The Wayward Wife" and then two chapters later this time on Jon's chapter. It's about the letter that Ramsay sent to them (and possibly to the other lords in the north). The letters were sent at the same time and they say almost the same thing, except for a detail that i found very interesting and can help prove the theories about the Pink Letter not being written by Ramsay or Roose.

In the letter sent to Asha, he signs - Ramsay Bolton, Lord of Winterfell

Then in the letter to Jon he signs - Ramsay Bolton, Lord of Hornwood

I think this is a small detail but it's actually huge. Why would he sign with a diferent title to a diferent Lord? hat can this mean?

Imo this shows very clearly that the Boltons fear Jon's claim to the North and the men he can bring to the war on Stannis' side.

Provoking him could just make him quit the NW and claim the North and the seat of Winterfell for himself. That would make the northmen flock to him, and Roose knows it. Their claim to WInterfell is weak. Everyone in the north knows or suspects that Arya is fake, they are just afraid to say it. With Jon finally becoming a Stark they would easily leave the Bolton's side, because the North Remembers and the Bolton's know that too. As Roose says, a peacefull land and a quiet people is the best way to rule.

Even if he thought that Jon would never get the NW to fight for him, why would he mess around with the wildlings, his only threat? He says his King is in fact alive, but he has him imprisioned. Then he asks for Val and her baby. I think that would only make the wildlings side with Snow, even if they disliked him. They would want to save their King and protect Val and the baby, giving Jon the army he needed to enter the war.

Following this logic, the Pink Letter would be a suicide (so I guess it was definitely not writen by a Bolton or Bolton ally). Also, they would just be under siege again in Winterfell, but this time any northmen would be willing to betray them.

With this thread I only wish to had some more info to the theories about the Pink Letter, not start another thread on who was that wrote it, since there are millions already. This idea could give reason to the political theories about the Pink Letter (someone wanting Jon to go to war).

Spoiler

(Also, the first is signed by Lady Dustin and the second by Lord Dustin, which is weird since there's no 'Lord' in Barrowton, but it migh just be a typo).

[bemused]

At first I thought the Letter that Jon receives must have been written just before Roose arrived , because it says that the lords are summoned to Barrowton for the wedding. But perhaps not necessarily. There are other differences ,too ( no piece of prince, e.g.).

Ramsay has been able to call himself Lord of the Hornwood for some time , but didn't know about being seated at WF till Roose arrived.

It's true ,they may not have wanted to provoke Jon or give him any clue that he's on their radar. In fact , they may or may not have known that he'd been elected LC ( yet).

At the same time , they definitely know that Stannis is at the wall and know that he's a threat .... I don't think they'd be concerned too much about the wildlings. Stannis only brought 1000 through and there were only 300 fighting men out of that number. ( And the Boltons may not yet know about them.)

They would naturally assume either that Stannis was in charge at the Wall, or that Jon would share the contents of the letter... and they would not want to flag Winterfell in any way. ... Stannis knows that possessing Winterfell is key to holding the North ,and so would Roose . So I think it was to misdirect both Jon and especially Stannis , who they know has an army.

[TheCrannogDweller]

Yes, the two letters are signed differently. But that can be explained by one of them being sent to an invader (so it had to show strength and resolve), while the other one was sent to a local order (so it had to display a modicum of humility).

No, the Boltons don't fear Jon's claim. They have a trueborn daughter of Winterfell, he's only a bastard. I don't know if Roose is aware of Robb's will - I would say probably not.

Yes, the pink letter was written by Ramsay. Once you look at the details, his authorship is the only sensible conclusion.

[the conquoring bastard25]

I'd have to disagree, the fact that the letter wasn't written in blood was the big tipping point that it wasn't Ramsay. If he had the blood of 6 wildling women and the blood of the King of the North, that letter would have been dripping with their blood.

Ramsay sent wedding invitations written in blood, this on the other hand was a letter declaring war, and it's written in black ink, fuck that, something smells rotten in the state of Denmark. Not to mention that handwriting, Ramsay's writing is described as big and loopy, there is no description of the pink letter. Not to mention some of the facts in the letter don't add up. Seven days of battle? Reek, why not call him Theon, as that's the name the Jon knows him by and the ruse about him being the real reek is up as he gave the (f)Arya away at the wedding. No this letter wasn't sent by a Bolton or snow faction. Nor do I think it was written by someone loyal in the North. Until Winterfell and the Boltons are dealt with no one wants anyone thinking, looking or talking about Jon in mixed company, let alone sending a letter that might provoke his brothers to kill him for oathbreaking.

[unSonofStannis]

No the Boltons dont fear Jons claim at the time but now they lost fArya so now theyre panicking and goad Jon onto a battlefield of their choosing and take him out. But then again I believe Mance wrote the letter so....

[BorhPT]

I think Mance could have done it too. On that Jon chapter you can read his conversation with Rattleshirt-Mance and he says '[stannis] burned the man he had to burn for all the world to see', which is very similar to what says in the pink letter.

Also many other things in that letter are only known by him. He might be under control by Melisandre too. Even though he looks like Mance, i think he might still be under her control and under the shifting spell

I also pondered the idea of the letter to Jon being written before Roose's arrival and the letter to Asha after. But the things written in both letters are essentialy the same. Moat Cailin fell, the ironborn were slaughtered, Roose Bolton is back and summons everyone to Barrowton to pay homage and to attend the wedding.

Writing 'Lord of WInterfell' might be a way to show the invaders that the north is united, but i don't think they would care much about changing titles between letters. If he signs Lord of Winterfell in a letter, he should continue to do it in other letters, since he is/will be the actual Lord of that castle.

[TheCrannogDweller]

I'd have to disagree, the fact that the letter wasn't written in blood was the big tipping point that it wasn't Ramsay. If he had the blood of 6 wildling women and the blood of the King of the North, that letter would have been dripping with their blood.

Why, because Ramsay can only write with blood? He hasn't mastered the art of writing with ink?

Ok, so you think Mance wrote the Pink Letter. Explain to me how he went from playing for Roose Bolton in the Great Hall of Winterfell (mere moments before his spearwives were discovered trying to smuggle "Arya" out of the castle) to not getting captured, then getting a raven from the rookery (which, btw, would be guarded) and sending it to the Wall.

[Roddy the Ruin]

As far as the Boltons knew, Jon was the only one who could challenge their rule. As Bran and Rickon were in hiding, Jon is the last living child of Ned, along with Sansa(who was missing). The North could possibly(and probably are) rallying around him to take out the Boltons.

[TheCrannogDweller]

As far as the Boltons knew, Jon was the only one who could challenge their rule.

"As far as the Boltons know" is where we get in trouble, though. Does Roose know about Robb's will? He was definitely not present when it was signed and sent to the North.

[Roddy the Ruin]

"As far as the Boltons know" is where we get in trouble, though. Does Roose know about Robb's will? He was definitely not present when it was signed and sent to the North.

its just common sense (with no disrespect intended). Ned's only living son would be a huge threat.

[TheCrannogDweller]

its just common sense (with no disrespect intended). Ned's only living son would be a huge threat.

None taken. :)

My point is that he is not only a bastard, but also a sworn brother of the Night's Watch. So I don't see how they can see him as a serious threat, unless Roose knows about Robb's will.

Also, not for nothing, but wouldn't Roose also know about Bran and Rickon being alive?

[Roddy the Ruin]

None taken. :)

My point is that he is not only a bastard, but also a sworn brother of the Night's Watch. So I don't see how they can see him as a serious threat, unless Roose knows about Robb's will.

Also, not for nothing, but wouldn't Roose also know about Bran and Rickon being alive?

But he thinks the other lords think Bran and Rickon are dead. So Jon is the only one that matters.

[Jamie Lannister]

Maybe he's just being honest for the first time in his life. He technically hadn't wed Arya and become the official "Lord of Winterfell" by the point he wrote to Asha, but he had done by the time he wrote to Jon.

It actually gives a tiny bit more credence to Ramsay being the author, IMO. He's got a huge stick up his ass about proper titles, and it's only natural that he'd sign himself off as a role as important as LoW.

[joluoto2]

its just common sense (with no disrespect intended). Ned's only living son would be a huge threat.

Especially a son who as Lord Commander of the Watch has actively sided with Stannis. Yes, I can see why the Bolton consider him a threat.

[Lord Thornhart]

Nice read. But I think Ramsay would be someone who would gladly rub in his hold over Winterfell and not care about the consequences. I'm kind of disappointed that he may have used logical thinking.

[Ingelheim]

I still think Mance wrote the letter but this is interesting.

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

I think the Boltons must be in constant fear of Starks turning up. Only one child confirmed dead.

[the conquoring bastard25]

first of all you must have read something between the lines because when did I say that Mance wrote the letter. I don't think I wrote that. I don't think Mance could have written the letter based on the info we have on him.

He's born of a wildling and man of the nights watch. The watch barely has the men to man the wall let alone spend the time to teach their men to read and write. So unless Mance is lying about his orgins it's just not plausible. Not to mention that whom would he get to write the letter. A maester? Not bloody likely, seeing as they are beholden to different lords and he doesn't know whom he can trust and whom would turn him over to someone else.

Now back to Ramsay, if it was him, it's out of character for him to write the letter in regular ink. Especially as he said he has the blood of his enemies on hand to do what he will. A wedding invite written in blood, but a letter saying he's going to cut of someone's black heart, that he want's his reek, that he want's bride, but it's written him black maester's ink, I cry bullshit and I don't think that I'm the only one.

Robb's will doesn't matter, even if Robb had never named Jon his heir, he would still be a rallying point as he's the last son of the honorable, brave, truth telling, Ned Stark. He maybe a Snow, but he's still the last son of Einterfell in the North, that's alive, young, old enough to rule and was taught by Ned. Bastard or No the North love the Starks. That's the same reason that Alys Karstark ran to seek his protection, his blood gives a lot of weight and judgement to those lords of the north, he's the old blood of Winterfell, the lords and Kings of the north flow through his veins. Men in the north would respect Jon for no other reason than the fact that he's the last son of Winterfell.

So again, hell no the North doesn't want the Bolton's or their allies looking at Jon. Jon is their ace up the sleeve.

[TheCrannogDweller]

Now back to Ramsay, if it was him, it's out of character for him to write the letter in regular ink. Especially as he said he has the blood of his enemies on hand to do what he will. A wedding invite written in blood, but a letter saying he's going to cut of someone's black heart, that he want's his reek, that he want's bride, but it's written him black maester's ink, I cry bullshit and I don't think that I'm the only one.

Again, show me where it is said that Ramsay only ever writes his letters in blood and never uses ink.

Also, show me where it says that the Pink Letter was written in maester's black.

[Red Wedding Cake]

In the letter sent to Asha, he signs - Ramsay Bolton, Lord of Winterfell

Then in the letter to Jon he signs - Ramsay Bolton, Lord of Hornwood

It's been a while since I've read these scenes in the books so I'm just going off the show, but wasn't Ramsay writing to Asha as the acting Lord of Winterfell while Roose was gone? The letter to Jon, which I feel he did in fact write, is after Roose assumes Lord of Winterfell. The letter to Jon is also a bit more personal so he'd use the title he earned. Also reminds us of what he did in Hornwood for impending Northern vengeance.